History of Cessationism

[Blood-Bought Pilgrim]

Does anyone in here know when cessationism as a formal position came to be defined? I know it seems to have emerged as part of the Protestant effort to separate itself from the many false "miracles" of the Roman Catholic Church, but it doesn't seem that most early Protestants had as clear of a position as Reformed people today. I'd also be curious if there was anything like cessationism around before the Reformation. Any good info anyone can share on this?

Thanks!

 

[RamistThomist]

Does anyone in here know when cessationism as a formal position came to be defined? I know it seems to have emerged as part of the Protestant effort to separate itself from the many false "miracles" of the Roman Catholic Church, but it doesn't seem that most early Protestants had as clear of a position as Reformed people today. I'd also be curious if there was anything like cessationism around before the Reformation. Any good info anyone can share on this?

Thanks!

Mainly around the Reformation. You will find some early fathers like Chrysostom warn against sensationalism, but that is a far cry from Macarthur's view.

Augustine, for example, was what we would call a cessationalist. He then documented a number of verified miracles in his own time in City of God. One of the most important fathers before Nicea was Gregory Thaumaturge, the "Wonderworker." The fathers didn't really have a category of "healer." They simply called them, as did the NT Greek, "wonders" or "working of powers."

On one hand, as the church moved on there was a move away from "expecting the miraculous." In other words, you don't really see continuationist exegesis. On the other hand, everyone still believed miracles could happen today.

Probably the best thing to do is comb the ancient commentaries on 1 Cor. 12-14.

 

[RamistThomist]

On one hand, as the church moved on there was a move away from "expecting the miraculous." In other words, you don't really see continuationist exegesis. On the other hand, everyone still believed miracles could happen today.

An interesting experiment would be to compare exegesis of James 5 before and after Jerome. As pouring oil on the sick became more of a "sacrament" and eventually "final unction," there was no longer any point to expecting healing.

 

[JvMill]

 

[Deleted member 13126]

An interesting experiment would be to compare exegesis of James 5 before and after Jerome. As pouring oil on the sick became more of a "sacrament" and eventually "final unction," there was no longer any point to expecting healing.

This is very interesting. I’ve asked Reformed Pastors in the past if they would be willing to do this and they all expressed a willingness to do it and/or stated they have done it when asked in the past. Not as a final unction, though.

 

[RamistThomist]

This is very interesting. I’ve asked Reformed Pastors in the past if they would be willing to do this and they all expressed a willingness to do it and/or stated they have done it when asked in the past. Not as a final unction, though.

I was in a cessationist church that didn't really believe in miracles, but they were willing to do this with a family member of mine. To be honest, I don't think they knew what to expect, but they did it anyway. The family member didn't get better right away, but a medical breakthrough did happen.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

I was in a cessationist church that didn't really believe in miracles, but they were willing to do this with a family member of mine. To be honest, I don't think they knew what to expect, but they did it anyway. The family member didn't get better right away, but a medical breakthrough did happen.

One of the reasons I ask the question is because I’d be genuinely skeptical of any elder who wouldn’t be willing to do it, whether they’re a cessationist or not. I’m not expecting a miracle, but I am expecting obedience to Holy Scripture. God’s Word says what It says.

If I received a diagnosis that I was seriously or terminally ill, it would honestly be one of the very first phone calls I’d make.

 

[RamistThomist]

One of the reasons I ask the question is because I’d be genuinely skeptical of any elder who wouldn’t be willing to do it, whether they’re a cessationist or not. I’m not expecting a miracle, but I am expecting obedience to Holy Scripture. God’s Word says what It says.

If I received a diagnosis that I was seriously or terminally ill, it would honestly be one of the very first phone calls I’d make.

This is where JP Moreland's stuff is really good. Even if James 5 only applies to the apostolic age (something the text doesn't say), pouring oil on someone and praying for them can still heal them at other levels. I don't mean just "spiritualizing" the text where it doesn't actually mean anything. This could be a way for someone to really address healing inner wounds, for example.

 

[Deleted member 6112]

This is very interesting. I’ve asked Reformed Pastors in the past if they would be willing to do this and they all expressed a willingness to do it and/or stated they have done it when asked in the past. Not as a final unction, though.

My session did it recently.

 

[Deleted member 6112]

@Blood-Bought Pilgrim I'm not able to pull the resources together at the moment to defend this position, but I'll state it anyway. I really think that the classic view in the Reformed tradition is that extraordinary works of God are for extraordinary times. They're not to be expected in every age and every circumstance, but they aren't limited to the first century, either. The modern ceasationist thesis is a 20th century response to pentecostalism, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

@Blood-Bought Pilgrim I'm not able to pull the resources together at the moment to defend this position, but I'll state it anyway. I really think that the classic view in the Reformed tradition is that extraordinary works of God are for extraordinary times. They're not to be expected in every age and every circumstance, but they aren't limited to the first century, either. The modern ceasationist thesis is a 20th century response to pentecostalism, in my opinion.

If only Pentecostalism had resigned to taking their licks and repenting when they sent missionaries to foreign lands and realized they couldn’t speak other languages — perhaps the Church would have settled on a more moderate position.

Glossolalia is unedified nonsense.

 

[Blood-Bought Pilgrim]

If only Pentecostalism had resigned to taking their licks and repenting when they sent missionaries to foreign lands and realized they couldn’t speak other languages — perhaps the Church would have settled on a more moderate position.

Glossolalia is unedified nonsense.

Was Pentecostalism originally on board with the idea that tongues are earthly languages?

 

[Deleted member 13126]

Was Pentecostalism originally on board with the idea that tongues are earthly languages?

It would seem so.

 

[joebonni63]

I was with Calvary Chapel for a number of years and I saw just about everything during that time.......... I don't like that style of worship and I would often ask where is this in the Bible and they always point to Acts and I just don't see that ...........

 

[Scott Bushey]

where is this in the Bible and they always point to Acts and I just don't see that ...........

I was saved in a CC 30 yrs ago.
Where is -what exactly- in the Bible?

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

This is very interesting. I’ve asked Reformed Pastors in the past if they would be willing to do this and they all expressed a willingness to do it and/or stated they have done it when asked in the past. Not as a final unction, though.

Our previous pastor tried telling me it was symbolic.

 

[RamistThomist]

Our previous pastor tried telling me it was symbolic.

Not sure why James would go to all the trouble to describe symbolic anointing with oil. At this point, that would be allegory. Most cessationists don't go that route; they just say it doesn't happen anymore.

My take is James, like Proverbs, is wisdom literature. Proverbs says if you live a wise life, good things will happen. That is generally true, but it doesn't account for all acts of providence (premature death, etc.). Same with James. If James is wisdom literature, then healing won't happen every time because Providence might have something else in store.

 

[Polanus1561]

To me, this James issue is linked to lifting holy hands in worship. Why has it disappeared over time and seemingly accepted (by some) that it is no longer to be done—for no good reason?

 

[Polanus1561]

https://twitter.com/DrMichaelLBrown
Dr. Michael L. Brown

@DrMichaelLBrown

I personally believe that if 100 new Christians were locked in separate rooms alone with a Bible for 10 years, being able to read the original text fluently and with no outside influences, studying the Scriptures day and night, after 10 years, they would have some differences about the end times, about the meaning of election and predestination, about leadership structure, about Christians and the law, about the exact nature of God's triunity, about the relationship between the church and Israel, among some other issues -- but I do not believe that any of them would come out cessationists.

Thoughts? Is cessationism best proven through historical analysis and reasoning/observation——or is Scripture enough and clear to show cessationism MORE than continuationism?

 

[joebonni63]

I was saved in a CC 30 yrs ago.
Where is -what exactly- in the Bible?

such as Spiritual Gifts .........

 

[Ploutos]

Thoughts? Is cessationism best proven through historical analysis and reasoning/observation——or is Scripture enough and clear to show cessationism MORE than continuationism?

I've heard good things about Michael Brown - meaning, in context, that as far as charismatics go he is one of the better and more thoughtful ones. But that statement of his is just ridiculous. Talk about assumed premises! He needs to speak with Robert Godfrey about the "me and my Bible" fallacy.

If you actually did that experiment, at the end of 10 years you would likely have a whole range of heresies and errant beliefs, various shades of Arianism and Nestorianism likely being prominent among them. We were not meant to read the Bible divorced from the restraining and shaping influences of community, catechesis, pastors and theologians.

In fact, one could argue his experiment has actually been tried. What would be closer than the American frontier? And what place and time in history has been a more productive cult and heretic factory, when you just look at the multitude of heresies that have come out of that free-for-all...

For the sake of the church, I pray that no one ever attempts his experiment and that he comes to be embarrassed by such an ill-conceived post.

 

[Polanus1561]

I've heard good things about Michael Brown - meaning, in context, that as far as charismatics go he is one of the better and more thoughtful ones. But that statement of his is just ridiculous. Talk about assumed premises! He needs to speak with Robert Godfrey about the "me and my Bible" fallacy.

If you actually did that experiment, at the end of 10 years you would likely have a whole range of heresies and errant beliefs, various shades of Arianism and Nestorianism likely being prominent among them. We were not meant to read the Bible divorced from the restraining and shaping influences of community, catechesis, pastors and theologians.

In fact, one could argue his experiment has actually been tried. What would be closer than the American frontier? And what place and time in history has been a more productive cult and heretic factory, when you just look at the multitude of heresies that have come out of that free-for-all...

For the sake of the church, I pray that no one ever attempts his experiment and that he comes to be embarrassed by such an ill-conceived post.

The point he is making is that this (hypothetical, don't worry he is not asking people to do this) experiment will not results in cessationism. It will be messy for sure, but he is restricting the question by stating that no one would be cessationist (more than a continuationist). This is all hypothetical.

 

[Ploutos]

The point he is making is that this (hypothetical, don't worry he is not asking people to do this) experiment will not results in cessationism. It will be messy for sure, but he is restricting the question by stating that no one would be cessationist (more than a continuationist). This is all hypothetical.

He is restricting the statement in line with his pre-conceived assumptions, one of which is that continuationism is a given. Not even I'm arrogant enough to assume that "if only people just read the Bible we would all be Calvinists". To state that all other doctrines are up for grabs but no one who just sticks to the plain text of Scripture would come out a cessationist? I stand by what I said... it's a ridiculous post.

 

[RamistThomist]

He is restricting the statement in line with his pre-conceived assumptions, one of which is that continuationism is a given. Not even I'm arrogant enough to assume that "if only people just read the Bible we would all be Calvinists". To state that all other doctrines are up for grabs but no one who just sticks to the plain text of Scripture would come out a cessationist? I stand by what I said... it's a ridiculous post.

That's not exactly what he is saying. He knows about presuppositions. His point is that if you didn't operate with the assumption canon closed = no super gifts, you wouldn't come to that conclusion, especially since 1 Cor 1 says they will remain with us.

That said, I am not arguing for continuing prophecy. I blocked a ministry candidate on that point a few years ago.

 

[RamistThomist]

At this point in my life, I no longer really debate whether cessationism is true or false. Most people on both sides just say cliches, This G3 conference will be a case in point. I've had charismatics strike me in the face because I asked them tough questions. I've had cessationists run away when I rebutted (not refuted) their arguments. If someone wants to actually do the hard work and go through the literature, I can provide it. This is from Moreland's Kingdom Triangle. Neither I nor Moreland endorse every single text. He's simply pointing out the scholarship on the topic.

 

[RamistThomist]

At this point in my life, I no longer really debate whether cessationism is true or false. Most people on both sides just say cliches, This G3 conference will be a case in point. I've had charismatics strike me in the face because I asked them tough questions. I've had cessationists run away when I rebutted (not refuted) their arguments. If someone wants to actually do the hard work and go through the literature, I can provide it. This is from Moreland's Kingdom Triangle. Neither I nor Moreland endorse every single text. He's simply pointing out the scholarship on the topic.
View attachment 10567

 

[RamistThomist]

View attachment 10568

 

[RamistThomist]

View attachment 10569

 

[RamistThomist]

James Bradley wrote what seems to be the definitive argument on early church view of miracles. If anyone can find the pdf, let me know.

Miracles and Martyrdom in the Early Church: Some Theological and Ethical Implications

"Miracles and Martyrdom in the Early Church: Some Theological and Ethical Implications" published on 01 Jan 1991 by Brill.

brill.com

He writes:
The church fathers clearly saw themselves standing in direct continuity with the primitive church in the book of Acts. In fact, the subject of demons and the practice of exorcism are more prominent in the post-apostolic church than in the church of the New Testament. Far from exhibiting a decreasing interest in the phenomena of the unseen world, the pre-Nicene church enthusiastically embraced these super- natural aspects of the tradition. Before the fourth century, however, the views of the church fathers were characterized by some restraint; afterA.D. 325 little of the former sobriety remained.

I do think he overstates the enthusiasm post-Nicea. I always read the evidence the other way. Once James 5 became a sacrament, there was little point to use it for healing.

He documents the church fathers:
See, for example, Ignatius, Epistle to the Philadelphians, 7:1, Kirsopp Lake, ed., Apostolic Fathers, Loeb Classical Library, 2 vols., Cambridge: Harvard Univer-
sity Press, 1:247; the Didache 11, 7-12, 1:327; the Shepherd of lfermas, Mandate11, 7-16, 2:121-23. This article will exclude all references to gifts of the Spirit and miracles which may be biblical only. See, for example, Athenagoras, A Plea for the Christians (about A.D. 177), 7, Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1979, hereafter, ANF, 2:132, and Clement of Alexandria (about A.D. 202), The Stomata, 4.21, ANF, 2 :433-34-where the gifts that are mentioned are not obviously contemporary.

3Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew, 82, 88, 39; ANF, 1:240, 243, 214. See several additional references, including incidents of exorcisms in Dialogue, 87; and the
Second Apology of Justin, 6; ANF, 1:243, 190.

4Against Heresies, 5.5.1. ANF, 1:531; Proof of the Apostolic Preaching, 99, in Ancient Christian Writers, 16, ed. Joseph P. Smith (New York: Newman Press,
1952, 108-109). On the text in Against Heresies and its interpretation sec Cecil M. Robeck Jr., "Irenaeus and 'Prophetic Gifts"' in Paul Elbert, ed., Essays in ApostolicThemes: Studies in Honor of Howard M. Ervin (Peabody, Mass.: Hcndrickson Pub.,1986) 110.

 

[Afterthought]

Some connect the annointing with oil to the extraordinary gifts that have ceased.