How Do You Discern Providence?

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Here's a scenario:

You're driving home from work, coming up on a traffic light. The third car ahead of you stops to try to get into another lane, holding up your lane. The second car ahead of you moves into a turn lane, then decides to come back, holding up traffic once again. The traffic light now turns yellow, in which the car in front of you runs the red light, leaving you, the only normal driver in the scenario stuck at the red light. Your car AC isn't working well, and your airways are a bit asthmatic, in which the heat is making it worse. You are already in a rush to try to get home, eat dinner with your family, and get to Wednesday night Bible study with your family, in which now you are closer to being late. You have honorable desires which just seem to not work out.

In honesty (not just the theological answer, but the reality ), what goes through your mind at that time, and how do you respond to God?

 

[CHSalzgeber]

Here's a scenario:

You're driving home from work, coming up on a traffic light. The third car ahead of you stops to try to get into another lane, holding up your lane. The second car ahead of you moves into a turn lane, then decides to come back, holding up traffic once again. The traffic light now turns yellow, in which the car in front of you runs the red light, leaving you, the only normal driver in the scenario stuck at the red light. Your car AC isn't working well, and your airways are a bit asthmatic, in which the heat is making it worse. You are already in a rush to try to get home, eat dinner with your family, and get to Wednesday night Bible study with your family, in which now you are closer to being late. You have honorable desires which just seem to not work out.

In honesty (not just the theological answer, but the reality ), what goes through your mind at that time, and how do you respond to God?

I’d probably reflect on the fact that these situations work patience. I’d try to remind myself that it is good for me to be afflicted and to be humbled. That no chastening seems good at the time, but that these things are being worked out for my good and His glory. I’d also probably thank God that I’m not such a crazy driver anymore. Years ago we traded in her Subaru Outback and my BMW M5 and got a minivan. 10/10 would do it again.

I’ve been in similar scenarios and surmised in those moments that maybe the Lord has kept me from something providentially as well (say, an accident that happens further up the road).

 

[Afterthought]

Be in awe of God's works, even those that we cannot understand all the reasons behind them: https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=33231340331607

 

[Elizabeth]

I don't know that we can 'discern providence' except by accepting what our Lord said, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid."

Our flesh will rail about these things, but that doesn't mean God's hand isn't upon every moment of our lives. We truly know peace when we realize this in these moments of human frustration. And what blessed relief comes upon us when the Spirit reminds us of this when we start to fume!

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Our flesh will rail about these things, but that doesn't mean God's hand isn't upon every moment of our lives

So true. How do you reconcile how it seems that God's ethics often seem different than what He expects from us? Like the "do as I say, and not what I do" mentality. For example, a Christian father is expected by God to feed and protect his children, but God's children around the world have succumbed to starvation and violent injustice.

I know the simple answer is "trust God, His ways are wiser than yours", but is there something more that really helps you?

 

[CHSalzgeber]

So true. How do you reconcile how it seems that God's ethics often seem different than what He expects from us? Like the "do as I say, and not what I do" mentality. For example, a Christian father is expected by God to feed and protect his children, but God's children around the world have succumbed to starvation and violent injustice.

I know the simple answer is "trust God, His ways are wiser than yours", but is there something more that really helps you?

I acknowledge this question was not directed at me, but I thought it would be good to not miss an opportunity to direct someone to Holy Scripture. The Holy Spirit loves to use His own material. So Deuteronomy 29:29, Isaiah 45:9, Isaiah 55:8-9, Job 38 (really all of Job), Romans 9, Romans 11:33-36, all come to mind for me.

Soli Deo Gloria.

 

[jw]

How Do You Discern Providence?​

Carefully, according to the general rules of Scripture, privately applied according to place & station, and -perhaps- not dogmatically. Think of providential "happenings" not as things dogmatically to be interpreted, but opportunities upon which to meditate, in light of Scripture precepts, and make salutary applications accordingly. As previously referenced in this thread, the secret things? Those belong to God. But, to us and our children, belongs obedience to all the words of the Law.

 

[jw]

As a P.S. - We can dogmatically say that every affliction any son of Adam receives is a consequence of sin, generally speaking. What we must avoid pressing to everyone else (though we may need to apply it to our own conscience) is that THIS affliction is because of THIS sin. The truth is, every circumstance is an opportunity to examine oneself, be humbled, acknowledge one's sin, confess it, forsake it, and subsequently -as is REQUIRED- flee to Christ alone to have one's heart sprinkled from this evil conscience, and consequently receive not only His forgiveness, but the promised cleansing that is inexorably tied thereunto.

 

[jwithnell]

Quite frankly, I'd be irritated. I'd be saying to myself, Mr. Toyota (I name surrounding drivers by their car brand) you could have gone!!! Then I'd think about how the scriptures teach us not to complain (which is what this comes down to). I'd tell myself God controls all things, even a 4Runner with a tail light out.

 

[Elizabeth]

So true. How do you reconcile how it seems that God's ethics often seem different than what He expects from us? Like the "do as I say, and not what I do" mentality. For example, a Christian father is expected by God to feed and protect his children, but God's children around the world have succumbed to starvation and violent injustice.

I know the simple answer is "trust God, His ways are wiser than yours", but is there something more that really helps you?

I rest in my creatureliness. It is not my place to reconcile anything about God. Full stop.

 

[RaderSDG00]

So true. How do you reconcile how it seems that God's ethics often seem different than what He expects from us? Like the "do as I say, and not what I do" mentality. For example, a Christian father is expected by God to feed and protect his children, but God's children around the world have succumbed to starvation and violent injustice.

I know the simple answer is "trust God, His ways are wiser than yours", but is there something more that really helps you?

I think about this everyday, and in almost the exact way that you phrased it. The verse that always pops into my mind is James 4:17, "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, for him it is sin." It seems irreconcilable with providence. We know that "all things work together for good" but, do the ends justify the means? What about when the means seem contrary to his revealed will?

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I think about this everyday, and in almost the exact way that you phrased it. The verse that always pops into my mind is James 4:17, "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, for him it is sin." It seems irreconcilable with providence. We know that "all things work together for good" but, do the ends justify the means? What about when the means seem contrary to his revealed will?

Thanks for the input. And whoever may read this, I don't want to come across as someone who doesn't have faith. I love God with all I am. It's just that my mind is always trying to perceive and interpret life in a rational way, to make sense of existence. Humbly submitting to God's will in everything is the best and most wise way to live, but it is a battle to basically have to live without wanting to understand, interpret and find reason to life right here and now. In almost all of life it is commendable to problem solve and find meaning, but with faith it is commendable to not do such things, because such things seem to insinuate doubt. I kind of wish I could reprogram my mind to not care about reason. It would make my life a lot more peaceful.

Edit: I understand the big picture as the Scriptures teach. I'm really just talking about everyday providential life.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Hello Ryan, I would say – re discerning providence – that, in light of Eph 1:11, God "who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will", has tailor-made all my afflictions to work in me so that I am fit to enter into the glory of His presence. I try to meditate on that truth in good times and in bad. He is a gracious, kind, and wise Shepherd.

 

[hammondjones]

As for your traffic example, I try to remember that providence isn't just about me, it's also for everyone and everything else. There's very little in this world that affects only me. Usually there is some other impact somewhere, either immediately or down the line. Not to mention all decisions everyone is making all over the world. And all those interactions between people, through time... well meditating on that, the concept quickly boggles the mind as to God's most holy, wise, and powerful preserving and governing all his creatures and all their actions.

 

[Miss Marple]

That I live in a sinful world, and stupidity, weakness, and evil is all around me. Also, that I have behaved in similar stupid fashion more times than I am aware of and am not entitled to having everyone around me behave perfectly. Rather, I should expect it.

 

[Theoretical]

Thanks for the input. And whoever may read this, I don't want to come across as someone who doesn't have faith. I love God with all I am. It's just that my mind is always trying to perceive and interpret life in a rational way, to make sense of existence. Humbly submitting to God's will in everything is the best and most wise way to live, but it is a battle to basically have to live without wanting to understand, interpret and find reason to life right here and now. In almost all of life it is commendable to problem solve and find meaning, but with faith it is commendable to not do such things, because such things seem to insinuate doubt. I kind of wish I could reprogram my mind to not care about reason. It would make my life a lot more peaceful.

Edit: I understand the big picture as the Scriptures teach. I'm really just talking about everyday providential life.

“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29.

This is a huge challenge, especially because so much of life is perplexing, tragic, seeming pointlessness, or loaded with foolishness. Moses wanted to see God's face but was forbidden from doing so because it would destroy him, but God let him hear His character.

"The LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7keeping steadfast love for thousands, a forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:5-7

Those of us who study history sometimes get the privilege of seeing God's providential hand in seemingly small things that end up make a huge difference over the span of generations for good or for ill. In our own histories, there are often small moments that change our lives for the better or worse far beyond the moment. In the traffic example, we may be preserved from a serious wreck, miss a meeting that ultimately costs us our job, or it might simply be an ordinary part of life with little effect either way other than to show that God's providence applies to even the smallest and most insignificant brushstrokes. The difference between a good decorator and an amazing decorator of a home is found in the little details even if the big details are mostly the same. But try to figure out the why behind the details and it can easily lead to despair or losing trust in God's goodness.

This is an area where the Psalms really apply rubber to the road. God never gave Job the answer to why he suffered so much, and we always will have something or many somethings where we just do not know on either the good or the ill side. I think praying, meditating on, and singing the Psalms allows us to engage and wrestle with God's character, which in turn allows us to trust Him in the valley of the shadow of death, in the traffic jam, and everything in between. For example, Psalm 107 highlights the many ways He draws His people to them, many times through (not in spite of) their folly. Psalms 104 and 148 highlight in sparkling detail the big and small details of His creation and how it and we should praise Him. 46 and 91 highlight His protection and provision for us against all evils. The list goes on, and we further have revelation of His character through the sending of His Son to redeem us and unite us to Him, and the ongoing privilege of His Holy Spirit living within us.

 

[jw]

“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29.

This is a huge challenge, especially because so much of life is perplexing, tragic, seeming pointlessness, or loaded with foolishness. Moses wanted to see God's face but was forbidden from doing so because it would destroy him, but God let him hear His character.

"The LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7keeping steadfast love for thousands, a forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:5-7

Those of us who study history sometimes get the privilege of seeing God's providential hand in seemingly small things that end up make a huge difference over the span of generations for good or for ill. In our own histories, there are often small moments that change our lives for the better or worse far beyond the moment. In the traffic example, we may be preserved from a serious wreck, miss a meeting that ultimately costs us our job, or it might simply be an ordinary part of life with little effect either way other than to show that God's providence applies to even the smallest and most insignificant brushstrokes. The difference between a good decorator and an amazing decorator of a home is found in the little details even if the big details are mostly the same. But try to figure out the why behind the details and it can easily lead to despair or losing trust in God's goodness.

This is an area where the Psalms really apply rubber to the road. God never gave Job the answer to why he suffered so much, and we always will have something or many somethings where we just do not know on either the good or the ill side. I think praying, meditating on, and singing the Psalms allows us to engage and wrestle with God's character, which in turn allows us to trust Him in the valley of the shadow of death, in the traffic jam, and everything in between. For example, Psalm 107 highlights the many ways He draws His people to them, many times through (not in spite of) their follow. Psalms 104 and 148 highlight in sparkling detail the big and small details of His creation and how it and we should praise Him. 46 and 91 highlight His protection and provision for us against all evils. The list goes on, and we further have revelation of His character through the sending of His Son to redeem us and unite us to Him, and the ongoing privilege of His Holy Spirit living within us.

Scott, long time no see, Brother. Howdy!