How Do You Guys Take John 14:17?

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TryingToLearn

Puritan Board Freshman
Pretty much every commentary I read seems to take "He is with you and will be in you", as meaning the Spirit was only "with" Old Testament believers, but after Pentecost, it is "in" believers, which seems needlessly pedantic to me, but some solid scholars like Jim Hamilton believe this and he even wrote his doctorate dissertation on this premise.

I think it's much better to say OT believers were indwelt as well instead of "the Spirit was only with them", nevertheless, John 14:17 still means something, so what exactly was the point of Jesus saying "He is with you and will be in you"?
 

Scottish Presbyterian

Puritan Board Freshman
The Holy Ghost should be referred to as "He" rather than "it".

I tend to think that the Holy Spirit was indwelling OT believers (and the disciples) and that the Saviour's meaning is something along the lines of the disciples not yet fully knowing or understanding this, and that they would come to a fuller measure of it and understanding of it in future. I have not thought too deeply about it, I'm open to correction if my initial viewpoint seems way off base.
 

TryingToLearn

Puritan Board Freshman
As Neil was saying it might refer to a later event: a deeper intimacy of the Spirit indwelling within.

You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (John 14.17, ESV).

You know him -- The disciples knew Christ because they were his friends on earth. They were 'with him' in the flesh.

will be in you -- Could refer to either Pentecost or John 20.22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit." (ESV). They had the Spirit of the resurrected Christ dwelling in them, like us today.

The following context of John 14 implies a future event.

These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
(John 14.25-26, ESV)

Alternatively, with and in could also mean the same thing.

It reminds me of the famous hymn "Abide with me." The hymn was obviously based off John 15 where Jesus instructs believers to abide in him. Either way, with or in, it is as Josh says it a matter of faith. This is the best response.

Whoever had the Spirit in the OT had to believe in God's promise of sending the Christ. David comes to mind. Psalm 51.11
And for us, it is believing in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
(Ephesians 1.13-14, ESV)
"You know Him" refers to the Spirit, not to Christ.

What the meaning of "will be in you" is is exactly what's in question. Is Christ trying to create a dichotomy between "he is with you" and "will be in you" in a way that means "indwelling" only began at Pentecost? Is Christ trying to say that a deeper experience of the Holy Spirit (consisting in the anointing and empowerment at Pentecost) will occur? Or is there no intended dichotomy at all? All 3 interpretations are possible.
 

hLuke

Puritan Board Freshman
It will be handy to have a closer look at the Greek. I'm sure both words are very similar in their meaning.
 

hLuke

Puritan Board Freshman
"You know Him" refers to the Spirit, not to Christ.

What the meaning of "will be in you" is is exactly what's in question. Is Christ trying to create a dichotomy between "he is with you" and "will be in you" in a way that means "indwelling" only began at Pentecost? Is Christ trying to say that a deeper experience of the Holy Spirit (consisting in the anointing and empowerment at Pentecost) will occur? Or is there no intended dichotomy at all? All 3 interpretations are possible.
I didn't read the post properly, and wasn't thinking straight in my response. I also tried to justify this fault on a later post. They both have been deleted. Apologies.
 
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