I need some Godly advice

[ajrock2000]

I have this friend I have had for many years (around 6 years), and I have recently been converted (probably around 3-4 months ago). Although, I was brought up in a "Christian" home and always assumed I was a Christian, I know now that I was not. God broke my depraved will to realize what I am, and the state I was in. The truths God has allowed me to have about the doctrines of grace and the sad state of the superficiality of Christianity in america today has saddened me bigtime. I had a Bible study going on (it was super seeker-friendly) that I recently had to abandon (it was me and this friend I am talking about who started the bible study).

I approached him about the bible study and how unbiblical it was and seeker friendly, and how we must seek to please God not men, and how being a witness is not about just loving people and accepting everyone, it is about God's truth. (I talked about this and a lot of other things as well) He didn't take any of what I was saying very well at all and he ended up storming away from me. He and the church he goes to are super-arminian. I didnt even get into free-will with him because I have other friends who have talked to him about it, and he rejects it totally. I had given him a paper with verses and points supporting my position, and he called back 5 days later and said he thinks I am wrong after studying the scriptures about it.

I have since decided that I cannot hang out with him anymore as a friend because if I did he would know that I don't mean what I say. I know he is expecting it to just blow over just like all the other false convictions I have had in the past. I know him by the fruits that he bears and they are none of a christian. (I mean if I was to ask him to go clubbing friday, he would jump right on it)

What do you guys recommend I do? I plan on getting together with him again to discuss the matters that he supposedly studied and found out I was wrong about. I know I am to love my enemies, but I cannot fellowship with him because these truths have so much importance to me. I just want to know the line between loving people and staying away from people because of open rejection and them proclaiming Christ and bearing no fruit whatsoever.

Help me guys.

 

[caddy]

...that God has done a work in your life is all the more reason to be a true friend. He is not receptive to your doctrine at this point, and you allude to the fact that he might not even be a true believer. The first thing I would always start with is prayer. Ask God to do the same work in his life that He has done in yours. This is a work of God, not yours. God's time table for your friend may take weeks, months, even years. We can't know when God will draw someone to believe and we cannot fully understand why he brings some to believe those precious doctrines that so enrich our lives till our middle to later years, as opposed to when we are young. Love your friend, pray for guidance, continue to seek the wisdom and counsel of trusted friends who are older and stronger in the faith, and from scripture. Look especially to Proverbs. Christ can and will work through your actions as well as your words. Sometimes people are affectected more by the things that are unspoken as opposed to constantly trying to get them to see "our" views or doctrines. My advise: take on the humility of Christ. Don't be overly preachy. Look for the teachable moments where you can say a lot by saying a little, or nothing at all. In other words be there for him when he needs you.

Some of the best teaching on Proverbs that I have heard so far is Waltke's wonderful Lectures:

http://www.believers-chapel.org/tapes/bw-2_proverbs/index.htm

Know that I will also pray for God's guidance for you and that He will make your friend receptive to His truth. God Bless.

 

[MrMerlin777]

...that God has done a work in your life is all the more reason to be a true friend. He is not receptive to your doctrine at this point, and you allude to the fact that he might not even be a true believer. The first thing I would always start with is prayer. Ask God to do the same work in his life that He has done in yours. This is a work of God, not yours. God's time table for your friend may take weeks, months, even years. We can't know when God will draw someone to believe and we cannot fully understand why he brings some to believe those precious doctrines that so enrich our lives till our middle to later years, as opposed to when we are young. Love your friend, pray for guidance, continue to seek the wisdom and counsel of trusted friends who are older and stronger in the faith, and from scripture. Look especially to Proverbs. Christ can and will work through your actions as well as your words. Sometimes people are affectected more by the things that are unspoken as opposed to constantly trying to get them to see "our" views or doctrines. My advise: take on the humility of Christ. Don't be overly preachy. Look for the teachable moments where you can say a lot by saying a little, or nothing at all. In other words be there for him when he needs you.

Some of the best teaching on Proverbs that I have heard so far is Waltke's wonderful Lectures:

http://www.believers-chapel.org/tapes/bw-2_proverbs/index.htm

Know that I will also pray for God's guidance for you and that He will make your friend receptive to His truth. God Bless.

This is not the time to bail, but time to be as good a true friend to your friend as you can be.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Be careful to not be a "cage stage" Calvinist - I thought the first return on the google search was good:

There are two extremes we must avoid. The first is to abandon the truth for the sake of love, while the second is to speak the truth without love. The former is regrettably quite common in Christianity today, while the latter is perhaps why we Calvinists are sometimes accused of being self-righteous and judgmental. I do think that in most cases, the accusations are often without basis and are usually cheap shots fired at us when our critics find themselves cornered in arguments.

Therefore, let us always bear in mind the teaching to “speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15). Even as we fervently believe as Spurgeon believed, that “Calvinism is the gospel,” we must constantly be conscious of our attitude towards others. Our goal should first and foremost be to preach Christ, not merely to win theological arguments.

Grace and Peace,

-JD

 

[ajrock2000]

Thanks guys for your responses. Thanks caddy for your wise words, I will definitely seek out that link you sent me.

It is definitely a learning process I am going through, as it is so easy to be critical of people who just "don't see it". I am learning though, God is teaching me, one trial at a time. I am constantly brought back to the fact that God did this to me out if His own good pleasure, and He decided not to, at least yet, for my friend.

I guess my question is where do I draw the line fellowshipping with someone like this as far as watching football games or just hanging out? I am more then welcome to get together with him to study the Scriptures together, as I have told him. He just wants to, and I quote him when I say this, "come to a compromise with it so we can be friends". I guess I am just afraid of being like I always have, and just accepting things the way they are and not standing up to anything, and just letting it slide by without doing anything too "brash". I have really been hit hard with the truth lately and I am beginning to see how much sin has crept in, especially in the "church" , and so many people are deceived, and it is really getting me down. But what do I expect in a fallen world, right?

 

[panta dokimazete]

Paige Patterson and Al Mohler are friendly...I thought this post was good, too.

 

[BobVigneault]

You have received some good and godly advice from these brothers Asa. This is consistent with the principle of scripture found in Paul's exhortation to Timothy:

2 Tim 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Blessings. Praying for you.

 

[turmeric]

Welcome to Christianity! Your situation is very similar to mine in that I was raised in a Christian home and converted years later, in spite of much bad theology. I'm still sorting it out.

I would certainly "hang out" with this person, but not try to convert him to your view just now, as your perspective is still fairly new. I would keep reading good theology and the Scripture as much as possible, and pray for this guy.

Do you have a good source of spiritual fellowship?

 

[ajrock2000]

Do you have a good source of spiritual fellowship?

As of now, only one other friend, and my dad. I just recently started going to my dad's church, which has reformed doctrine, and I have briefly met a few others. Actually this other friend I have talked to him with me about the problems in the bible study, and was in agreement with me. I would have loved to keep the study going, but since me and Joe (the fellow in dispute here) started it together, I had to goto him first and bring my convictions to him, but he rejected them.

I think the real reason I haven't hung out with him is because I know how he is deep down because I have seen it, and how little, if at all, Christ truly means to him by means of his actions. I know I am not to be judgmental but I do know people by their fruits. The problems I am really talking about go beyond just doctrinal issues and disagreements, its his style of life. A person like this I have no problem being an acquaintance now and then, but as far as continually fellowship like before my conversion, I can't seem to be right with it.

What do you guys think of verses like I Corinthians 5:9-13 ? How would this relate to my issue?

Thanks for all the excellent help and prayers.

 

[BobVigneault]

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

He he one of these?
sexually immoral
greedy
idolater
reviler
drunkard
swindler

 

[ajrock2000]

Sad to say, yeah.

As I said before, If I was to ask him to go clubbing this weekend, there is not one doubt in my mind that he would go. He has asked me on occasions. Also, idolater can have many meanings. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.

 

[BobVigneault]

I'm 51, I'm not sure I know what clubbing means. Is it something you do to baby seals?

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

I'm 51, I'm not sure I know what clubbing means. Is it something you do to baby seals?

 

[Blue Tick]

Clubbing= Going to Dance Clubs. However, the term implies "let's go pick up some chicks". Most are not going to clubs for the mere pleasure of dancing.

 

[caddy]

I love seeing innocence in a 51 year old !!!!!!!!!

 

[ajrock2000]

I'm 51, I'm not sure I know what clubbing means. Is it something you do to baby seals?

Clubbing= Going to Dance Clubs. However, the term implies "let's go pick up some chicks". Most are not going to clubs for the mere pleasure of dancing.

Yep. Both reasons are detestable to me personally. Although, in previous times in my life, I would enjoy going, and the whole lust of the flesh scene.

 

[BobVigneault]

Ahhhh, now I know what chicks are.

I've picked up quite a few chicks myself, especially when moving them from the incubator.

If that's the case Asa than shunning him for reasons of immoral behavior is quite justified. I would say hang in with him if your differences were merely exegetical.

I pray you will get an opportunity to share sound doctrine with him eventually.

 

[ajrock2000]

If that's the case Asa than shunning him for reasons of immoral behavior is quite justified. I would say hang in with him if your differences were merely exegetical.

I pray you will get an opportunity to share sound doctrine with him eventually.

lol @ the chicks.

I pray for him everyday, and I am so humbled by the fact that I see my old self in him, only difference being is that God decided "grant me" the heart of repentance. I don't even have the words to express it. Please pray for me later this week because there are some friends coming down from canada that we both know, so I will most likely bump into him at some point. I need to constantly keep humility on my mind because it is all too easy to get too critical of him.

Thanks guys.

 

[Theoretical]

Asa, you have a PM.

 

[Blue Tick]

Ahhhh, now I know what chicks are.

I've picked up quite a few chicks myself, especially when moving them from the incubator.

If that's the case Asa than shunning him for reasons of immoral behavior is quite justified. I would say hang in with him if your differences were merely exegetical.

I pray you will get an opportunity to share sound doctrine with him eventually.

That's hilarious!!!!!

 

[non dignus]

Clubbing= Going to Dance Clubs. However, the term implies "let's go pick up some chicks". Most are not going to clubs for the mere pleasure of dancing.

Dance clubs or Saddleback youth meetings.....

'Hi there, can I buy you a soda?'

 

[non dignus]

Asa,

Study like mad! Be patient, he will ask you a questions. Be ready to give an answer with love. And of course pray for good communication between the both of you.

 

[Storm]

Can I even ask this question here???

Okay...I'm new...so forgive me if I'm too crass...

I was talking to a friend today at lunch who said, "The problem with the whold WWJD thing is that if I've just committed adultery and I ask myself what would Jesus do, the answer is, HE WOULD NEVER HAVE SINNED!" Therefore, the WWJD mode of living doens't work. Well...then I have a question. Does Jesus relate to me and my life IN EVERY WAY? Then I have to ask, did Jesus ever **********? Now, if masturbation is sin, I'm sure he didn't, because the Bible says that though he was tempted in every way as we are, he was without sin. But some Christians think masturbation is a GIFT from GOD...so as to not commit fornication. I don't know if it is a sin or not...I tend to think it is...but what I really hate to think about is that Jesus cannot relate to me in every way...I need a Savior who can understand me perfectly...

Comments?

 

[turmeric]

Jesus was tempted in every way as we are - yet without sin. That isn't meant to be an exact quote, I can't remember it well enough for that.

If the behavior you are describing is a sin, you can be sure Jesus never did it. I'm sure he was tempted to lust, but he didn't give in.

I need a Savior who can bear the wrath of God in my place. He couldn't do that if he were a sinner. I need his atonement worse than the comfort of knowing he can relate to me in every way.

 

[kvanlaan]

Pssst...

...I saw Bob V with a couple of cute chicks the other day. One in each hand, and he looked to be enjoying their warmth and company. They were positively chirping over his glossy white locks...

 

[Israelite]

He who walks with the wise shall be wise,
but one associating with fools shall be broken.
– Proverbs 13:20

Blessed is the man who
has not walked in the counsel of the ungodly,
and has not stood in the way of sinners,
and has not sat in the seat of scorners.
– Psalm 1:1

Go from a foolish man,
or you will not know the lips of knowledge.
– Proverbs 14:7

I have not sat with lying men;
and I will not go in with hypocrites;
I have hated the assembly of evil-doers,
and I will not sit with the wicked.
– Psalm 25:4-5

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
- 2 Timothy 2:24-26

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
- 1 Peter 3:15-16

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
- 2 Corinthians 6:14-18