Need Advice from the More Experienced

[g.p.hopkins]

Hey Guys,

I need some advice about my current situation. While I am seeking advice from those closer to me (i.e., pastor, family, etc), I believe it would be beneficial to post a thread to get a wider range of advice from some people who may have gone through similar experiences.

Right now, I'm 21. I have a B.A. in Biblical and Religious Studies. I am currently schedule to start full time at RPTS in the fall. However, over the summer, I have become more and more stressed about my financial situation. While my family is well off, I will be paying for seminary myself and will have to take out loans while also working through seminary. Because of this, I have a lot of stress thinking about my future and many aspirations I have. For example, I am currently dating a girl I want to pursue a marriage with in the future, and I feel like being in school, taking out loans, and only working part time isn't the best way to set up a future for my family. On the other hand, I feel called to the ministry, and I don't want to feel like I am betraying that so I can be in a better financial situation.

Overall, I realize I need to trust in the Lord more, but I also want to be practically cautious about debt. I realize I am young, and most people don't have a B.A. at my age, so I feel like I do have time, Lord willing.

So, I'd appreciate some advice. I really feel like this time has led me to over stressing and being in a dark place when I do not have to be. Thanks.

 

[Andres]

First, remember Philippians 4:6-7: "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

Second, I see you're in the OPC so are you under care already of your Presbytery? Why'd you choose RPTS? Is it the most cost-effective way to obtain an MDIV? If you're a single man why can't you work full-time while you're in seminary? Pay off your school as you go. Yes it will likely be hard work but it's a better option than unneeded debt.

 

[g.p.hopkins]

First, remember Philippians 4:6-7: "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

Second, I see you're in the OPC so are you under care already of your Presbytery? Why'd you choose RPTS? Is it the most cost-effective way to obtain an MDIV? If you're a single man why can't you work full-time while you're in seminary? Pay off your school as you go. Yes it will likely be hard work but it's a better option than unneeded debt.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I undercare of the Presbytery of Ohio. RPTS is an affordable MDiv compared to some other options. Plus, its closer to home for me. I feel like to work full time, I would have to do part-time school, and I find it difficult to find companies who are willing to compromise on time; it seems everyone wants your full attention if you're working full-time. Do you have any suggestions for full-time work that would be beneficial?

 

[JvMill]

I’ve heard security jobs (think like sitting around most of your shift and taking rounds once an hour) are good gigs for school.

 

[arapahoepark]

I would avoid loans and agree with Andres above. It's prudent to pay as you go or go part time while working.
Have you thought about substitute teaching in a district or specific charter or private school?
Another option that comes to mind is bartending, depending on your hours or beliefs on it.

 

[Jack K]

If you're confident the young woman you're dating is "the one," scoop her up first and marry her, and then figure out the rest of it together and with your presbytery. Seminary enrollment, work, and loans (or other financing) are easy to come by compared to finding the right spouse.

 

[Andres]

Thanks for the encouragement.

I undercare of the Presbytery of Ohio. RPTS is an affordable MDiv compared to some other options. Plus, its closer to home for me. I feel like to work full time, I would have to do part-time school, and I find it difficult to find companies who are willing to compromise on time; it seems everyone wants your full attention if you're working full-time. Do you have any suggestions for full-time work that would be beneficial?

I didn't do an MDiv but I completed my undergrad degree online while working full-time as a police dispatcher. It was before I was married and I actually took on a part-time job as well to fill my time and get ahead financially. I bought my first house during that time. I know numerous men who have completed MDiv degrees while working full-time AND had families AND some were already serving in churches as ruling elders. Hopefully they can weigh in with specific ways they were able to accomplish that.
I would strongly encourage you to make good stewardship of your time a priority while you're young. The ministry is a demanding calling and you should expect to be quite busy as a minister so why not get busy now?! (not saying you aren't) And if you had to lighten your course load some I would personally advise taking an extra year to complete an MDiv rather than taking on debt.

 

[py3ak]

Mid-America Reformed Seminary and City Seminary of Sacramento have excellent track records in having students graduate without debt. I am not as well informed about other seminaries.

I agree with Jack that it's a good idea to pursue marriage first if you're sure about that. And having a gap year between college and seminary might not be bad in any case. Working full-time, saving money, reading, and garnering some experience in the world outside of school also has benefits.

 

[Polanus1561]

This anxiety is calling you to be under care.

 

[Solparvus]

I agree with Jack that it's a good idea to pursue marriage first if you're sure about that. And having a gap year between college and seminary might not be bad in any case. Working full-time, saving money, reading, and garnering some experience in the world outside of school also has benefits.

I'm probably a latecomer to the ministerial track, far as averages go. I have a family of four and I do a self-employed gig to keep food on the table. Through the decade prior, I worked full time as a CPA. I never regretted that. It gave me realism about how the world works, and an idea of what people face and deal with in day-to-day living. Workplace experience is a plus when it comes to ministry, and not a needless delay.

Graduating without debt is entirely possible. It may not be easy, but if you're smart and a hard worker, you can do it. And really, the church should be contributing something toward the seminary venture.

@g.p.hopkins Are you getting any financial church or presbytery support for this? If you're going to go into a call that will likely mean having a lesser share of this world's goods than others, for a work that is harder than that of others, with consequences farther reaching than others, then they should not spare to help you, far as they can, so long as you are really called.

 

[Solparvus]

I would strongly encourage you to make good stewardship of your time a priority while you're young. The ministry is a demanding calling and you should expect to be quite busy as a minister so why not get busy now?! (not saying you aren't) And if you had to lighten your course load some I would personally advise taking an extra year to complete an MDiv rather than taking on debt.

Yes indeed. Bear the yoke in youth, spare nothing in building knowledge, godliness, resilience now (attain unto The Three if possible!), and it will set you up for many decades to come.

 

[MatthewBall]

Brother,
I'd join in recommending you to strongly consider (at least starting out) working full time, or as close to it as you can, and taking a part time course load. It also may be wise to take a gap year. You are still very young and have time. If you were to take a gap year, you could focus on pursuing marriage and saving up as much money as you can to be best prepared for starting seminary.
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In my opinion, you'd be better off finishing seminary in 6 years, rather than 3 or 4, if it allows you to finish with as little debt as possible.

 

[Parakaleo]

First, I can tell you how I did it. Then, I can tell you how I might have done it if I had more wisdom.

I graduated with a B.A. in English, got married, began working full-time, came under care as a student in the OPC, joined the military (reserves), and became a new father, all in pretty quick succession between ages 23-25. Due to marriage, work, and becoming a father, I had resigned myself to wait on seminary studies for several years as I established my family. However, it was joining the military that propelled me into formal theological training much sooner, since I had signed up for a chaplain training program. I had a small income from the army (weekend training drills), benefits for my family, and my tuition at RTS Charlotte was covered. Over the next 6 years, I plodded through seminary studies, part-time work, full-time work, and army training--all while caring for a growing family. There were some very lean times. One pastor I knew said these lean times were a "red flag" that discredited my qualification as a student for the ministry. An older pastor reminded me that lean times are a very common experience for families pursuing the ministry (including his own). The Lord saw us through very graciously. After seminary, I left the army and went into full-time ministry.

Now, taking nothing away from the Lord's gracious provision and direction for me, here's how I look back upon it all with (I hope) a little more wisdom. Even though the military provided practical help and experience, I would not sign up again. I see some fundamental flaws in the whole system of uniformed military chaplaincy. It was (for me) a kind of short-cut to get moving on seminary studies ahead of when I would have been able to, otherwise. The more responsible course, I think, would have been to marry, work, raise children, grow in knowledge and godliness, save up, and then possibly train for ministry some years down the road (closer to 30). Doing it that way feels "scarier" because once a man gets going with a career and providing for a growing family, he may never feel he has the means to cut down on his work-load and train for the ministry. It feels "safer" to get training for the ministry early--before marriage, family, full-time career, etc. But, the ministry is not a profession like other professions. There is a real risk involved in men getting an early start in formal training for the ministry, yet they are "unproven" in life. The better way (in my humble opinion) is for men to be proven in life through years of experience in work, caring for a family, godliness in the church, development of gifts, etc., before (with the approval of elders) heading down a path of training for the ministry.

 

[Edward]

My standard advice here is for a young man to develop marketable skills and get a job to 1) get some money 2) have something to fall back on when things go sour and 3) get some life skills. Trades can be good. Biblical studies may be among the worst choices unless it's a setup where you can apply some of the course credits toward a seminary degree.

 

[FidesQuaerens]

Have you looked into teaching? I know a lot of guys who are able to pursue seminary more or less full time while also teaching full time (usually Bible, literature, or Greek at local classical and Christian schools). I work part-time as an online Bible teacher for a local middle school (in addition to many other jobs) and I'm able to make it work pretty well. There is a lot of good advice in this thread and many good reasons for waiting that would be good to consider, but also remember that seminary takes a long time and circumstances will change throughout it: it is ok to slow down or speed up at various points. You could also look at schools that have a reputation for providing a lot of full-tuition scholarships (Phoenix Seminary offers quite a few and a good number of our students are completely funded).

 

[WithinThePale]

I'd second the advice to roll on with getting married, holding on till after school is over is much more trouble than it's worth.
I'd advise running a lot of spreadsheets of realistic paths forwards, with and without debt, with and without marriage (if financial integration is something you're comfortable talking about with the young lady in your life), with different outcomes after your MDiv, and different sorts of loan arrangements. Having these sorts of things plotted out will also help if you apply for assistance/scholarships (which you should probably do a wide ranging search for).

I think that education should be treated as a 9 to 5 day job, and any work for money needs to be kept outside of those hours (milking cows is good that way! So is selling parts from your dead car!) to keep your output reasonable quality.

Lastly, beware anxieties, they often cause sin and foolish decisions. Be careful to manage it through a variety of means, depending on what's best for you.

 

[Stephen L Smith]

milking cows is good that way!

I guess the approach to milking cows in Ireland is similar to New Zealand. That is, you don't milk the front of the cow. You milk the udder end

I do have a few more moooving puns up my sleeve. I learned this skill from my Irish forebears.