Barnpreacher
Puritan Board Junior
I'm studying II Peter 2 at the moment. I've read it a ton of times before, but it's never hit me like this. Especially verse 1 where it says that the false teachers deny the Lord that bought them. I've studied dispensationalists all my Christian life that would simply say that Peter is a book to the Jews. It doesn't apply to the church age. I don't buy that now, but here's what I'm trying to get at.
The verse says what it says. It says that some people were bought by the Lord and then they die and go into the mist of darkness forever according to verse 17. This is a bit of a problem for dispensationalists and Calvinists alike isn't it? For the dispensationalists that say this is only applicable to the Jew matters very little. They were still "bought" by the Lord and then die and go to the mist of darkness forever. Doesn't matter if it's Jew or Gentile somebody who had been bought isn't making it to heaven.
For the Calvinist it goes against the perseverance of the saints doesn't it? Those that are truly elect will persevere. If someone claims to be born again, but then goes away from Jesus then they were never really of him. But the verse in Peter makes it clear that they were bought by the Lord. Sounds like they were elect because only the elect are the ones that Christ died to redeem. But how can this verse refer to the elect in light of John 17, Romans 8 etc.??
Gill makes the point that the Greek word for Lord here in Peter is despotes and not kurios. Despotes is never used in Scripture to refer to Jesus as kurios is used when Jesus is referred to as Lord. So he's trying to say that the buying in II Peter 2:1 is not actually the redemption that the cross purchased. I'd like to be able to buy that, but if that is true then what is the "bought" referring to in that verse?
Here's an interesting verse in Deuteronomy 32:6, "Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee?" That's an obvious reference to Israel. Does anybody have any idea what that purchase is in Deuteronomy 32? Obviously it's before the cross, so it doesn't seem to be referring to the redemption of Christ's Blood. Any idea what it could be referring to and does the purchase in Deuteronomy 32 hold the key to the purchase in II Peter 2:1???
One last thing and I'll hang up and listen as they say on talk radio. Gill seems to believe that the word "bought" in Deuteronomy and Peter are referring to the same purchase (not the purchase of redemption on the cross). He doesn't really go into detail as to what he believes that purchase is. But he says since God was talking to the Jew in Deuteronomy 32 and he is talking to the Jew in II Peter 2 that it is referring to the same thing. My only problem with this is that II Peter 2 is after Christ purchased our redemption at Calvary. According to Ephesians 2 the middle wall of partition has been torn down between Jew and Gentile. So to say that Peter is talking only to the Jew in II Peter 2 about the same thing that God was talking to the Jew in Deuteronomy 32 seems to be a grievous error in my estimation (which isn't worth a thing).
[Edited on 5-25-2005 by Barnpreacher]
The verse says what it says. It says that some people were bought by the Lord and then they die and go into the mist of darkness forever according to verse 17. This is a bit of a problem for dispensationalists and Calvinists alike isn't it? For the dispensationalists that say this is only applicable to the Jew matters very little. They were still "bought" by the Lord and then die and go to the mist of darkness forever. Doesn't matter if it's Jew or Gentile somebody who had been bought isn't making it to heaven.
For the Calvinist it goes against the perseverance of the saints doesn't it? Those that are truly elect will persevere. If someone claims to be born again, but then goes away from Jesus then they were never really of him. But the verse in Peter makes it clear that they were bought by the Lord. Sounds like they were elect because only the elect are the ones that Christ died to redeem. But how can this verse refer to the elect in light of John 17, Romans 8 etc.??
Gill makes the point that the Greek word for Lord here in Peter is despotes and not kurios. Despotes is never used in Scripture to refer to Jesus as kurios is used when Jesus is referred to as Lord. So he's trying to say that the buying in II Peter 2:1 is not actually the redemption that the cross purchased. I'd like to be able to buy that, but if that is true then what is the "bought" referring to in that verse?
Here's an interesting verse in Deuteronomy 32:6, "Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee?" That's an obvious reference to Israel. Does anybody have any idea what that purchase is in Deuteronomy 32? Obviously it's before the cross, so it doesn't seem to be referring to the redemption of Christ's Blood. Any idea what it could be referring to and does the purchase in Deuteronomy 32 hold the key to the purchase in II Peter 2:1???
One last thing and I'll hang up and listen as they say on talk radio. Gill seems to believe that the word "bought" in Deuteronomy and Peter are referring to the same purchase (not the purchase of redemption on the cross). He doesn't really go into detail as to what he believes that purchase is. But he says since God was talking to the Jew in Deuteronomy 32 and he is talking to the Jew in II Peter 2 that it is referring to the same thing. My only problem with this is that II Peter 2 is after Christ purchased our redemption at Calvary. According to Ephesians 2 the middle wall of partition has been torn down between Jew and Gentile. So to say that Peter is talking only to the Jew in II Peter 2 about the same thing that God was talking to the Jew in Deuteronomy 32 seems to be a grievous error in my estimation (which isn't worth a thing).
[Edited on 5-25-2005 by Barnpreacher]