Is Doug Wilson a False Teacher?

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But does this do justice to the reality of his influence? How many people does he influence who are outside of a broadly reformed (here I mean at minimum TULIP) background? Probably very little. Instead, people are drawn into his circle because of the theological foundation of his cultural mandate, plus they love the manly man image. No one is going to Wilson for culture alone.

I won't disagree with what you have seen because it is your experience. It's not been mine.

My experience is that large numbers of people get attracted to Doug Wilson, not because of his Calvinism, but for one or both of two reasons.

1. His approach to Christian education is widely influential, especially in homeschooling circles, which is ironic because Wilson early on viewed homeschooling as a threat to starting new Christian schools.

2. As you pointed out, his culture war approach, and emphasis on masculinity in the family, the church and the world, attract many people.

Of course, anyone who spends very much time reading Doug Wilson and getting involved in Christian schooling is going to get a big dose of a Reformed view of family life and a Reformed view of education, and that often leads to people becoming soteriologically Reformed.

To cite one such man I know, when he was struggling with how to be a good father and husband, he ran across the Driscoll and Wilson approach to the questions with which he was struggling. The more time he spent reading the things they wrote, the more he realized the problems and moved on to more traditionally Reformed writers who he didn't even know existed when he was in broadly evangelical circles. Years later, he was not surprised when Driscoll's ministry fell apart because he had realized the internal contradictions in Mars Hill much earlier and had moved on to better expressions of what it means to be Reformed.

I think that is a pretty common experience among "New Calvinists" and "YRR" types. They get drawn in by someone like Wilson, or other people, and become more Reformed as they dig deeper.

Doug Wilson's primary audience may once have been in Reformed circles, but the condemnation of the Federal Vision by the major NAPARC denominations has had significant effects. I think much and perhaps most of his audience now would be outside our world.

I wish that Doug Wilson, who has said a lot of good things, would take some serious time to study why nearly every major denomination in the confessionally Reformed world thinks he's wrong on some key points.

Pick your major politically prominent evangelical leader of a previous generation -- Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson. Or earlier than that, Carl McIntire or people like him.

All of those men had serious theological issues and sometimes (as in McIntire's case) their "fighting fundie" personality wrecked their ministries despite early successes.

I view Doug Wilson more in that category of a conservative Christian political activist than the category of a Reformed theologian writing for Reformed people.
 
People don't seem to have a problem with it when it comes to Baxter.

This is untrue. There are many threads and posts about Baxter's issues with justification, even so, the comparison is hypothetical-universalist apples and paedo-communionistic oranges.

Baxter's issues with justification are of a completely different type of issue that Wilson has. And unlike Wilson, Baxter was Biblically ordained and called as a minister of the gospel Scripturally.

And even with that, what is Baxter read for? Does RHB publish the Works of Richard Baxter including his hypothetical universalism? No.

Does RHB publish the Practical Works of Richard Baxter? Yes, absolutely.

Does Wilson have any work that is as supremely and ministerially focused in the details of everyday life as Christian Directory or as solidly practical as Saints' Everlasting Rest or as crucially formative for young ministers as the Reformed Pastor?

I read somewhere that he came into his church with astonishingly low knowledge of the Bible in all his parishioners and that by his death, he had most every single one of his congregation actively catechizing in their homes.

Baxter did not get lost in culture wars and publish primarily (or even a little bit) on culture. He published works for the Christian flock. He always and pre-eminently remained focused on his pulpit and rigorous visitation ministries to his flock and their households.
 

Just wanted to say that even though I defended Baxter, I do too. Hypothetical universalism is no small error in theological doctrine.

My only point in my last post is that looking at his life, he had a genuine heart for souls - both unconverted and converted - and solidly dedicated the lion's share of his writing and speaking to genuine Gospel ministry of his flock and genuine pleas to the public outside his church to come to Christ.

Using a wide lens to the output of their works, there just is no comparison from one to the other here.
 
This is not defending Doug Wilson's views, but most of us who voted for Donald Trump would say he has been an asset on balance despite all sorts of awful beliefs and actions. Is Wilson better than Trump, morally and doctrinally? I would say yes to both. So it's entirely possible to say that someone has been an asset on balance despite pretty serious problems.

If the alternative is President Kamala Harris, I'll vote for Trump, as I think most people here would, apart from those who say, "I'm not voting at all." Their choice. It's not mine.

I voted for Ted Cruz in 2016, Rick Santorum in 2012, and Mike Huckabee in 2008 for the Republican nomination. (Yes, zero for three.) I can think of many people who have done a lot of good in American politics, and the conservative Christian movement, who I would never want in the pulpit of any church I would be likely to join.

Comparing Doug Wilson to Francis Schaeffer or D. James Kennedy is not the right use of categories. If we think of Doug Wilson less as a Reformed theologian and more as a conservative Christian political activist who began his career in trying to reform American views of education and moved into culture and politics, I think that helps.
He would be an asset if this categorization were correct - if it were his own categorization. The problem is, he doesn't present himself as a conservative Christian political activist. He's not a known blasphemer and adulterer who happens to have a less-anti-God policy than the alternative. He's not even a conservative political pundit who happens to be a sincere believer (like Charlie Kirk, for instance). He is first and foremost a (self-ordained) pastor of a church that professes the gospel and a founder of an association of churches that profess to be Reformed. And it is on that basis that he must be considered. I think Rick Santorum is the best option Christians have had on their ballots this century, and I confess with the historic Reformed church that Mr. Santorum's professed religious authority is the Antichrist. Their beliefs, on theology and politics, are apparently the same - except that, as a more conservative papist, Santorum probably has even worse theology concerning saints/relics/the Pope. The difference, of course, is in their occupation and their sphere of influence. Doug Wilson isn't making a sinful world more tolerable in his capacity as a civil magistrate; he's making the Reformed world less Reformed in his capacity as an influential quasi-Reformed theologian.
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People don't seem to have a problem with it when it comes to Baxter.
I wouldn't recommend Baxter. There are good practical theologians we don't have to qualify half so much before we recommend them.
 
I also think people are vastly underestimating the reach of his influence amongst conservative Christian’s and reformed Christian’s and the danger he poses. Despite having his teachings exposed as false by many of the reformed denominations his influence has only grown even in the PCA if the churches in my area are any indication. His denomination is growing quickly. Any video that is published warning against his views will be swarmed with comments by people coming to his defense. He is pulling followers from all different circles. One of his newer right hand men was one of the main young leaders in the Founders ministry (Jared Longshore). Now that John MacArthur and Voddie Baucham have passed away I don’t know of any ‘Reformed’ pastor who is more well known or more influential at this point in time.
 
I also think people are vastly underestimating the reach of his influence amongst conservative Christian’s and reformed Christian’s and the danger he poses. Despite having his teachings exposed as false by many of the reformed denominations his influence has only grown even in the PCA if the churches in my area are any indication. His denomination is growing quickly. Any video that is published warning against his views will be swarmed with comments by people coming to his defense. He is pulling followers from all different circles. One of his newer right hand men was one of the main young leaders in the Founders ministry (Jared Longshore). Now that John MacArthur and Voddie Baucham have passed away I don’t know of any ‘Reformed’ pastor who is more well known or more influential at this point in time.
Why are people attracted to this guy since the Reformed denominations have already denounced FV? I don't see the appeal to him either.
 
Why are people attracted to this guy since the Reformed denominations have already denounced FV? I don't see the appeal to him either.

I think the answer is actually pretty simple. Uncertain trumpets do not rally troops. Clear trumpets do.

A lot of people say, "Wilson fights!" They say, "He fights on the issues other ministers avoid!"

I think there are better answers than those which Wilson gives. I think Abraham Kuyper and Francis Schaeffer and D. James Kennedy, all of whom addressed not only cultural collapse but also family life, gave better answers than Wilson. (And to be fair to Wilson, I actually think he'd agree, and say that he stands on the shoulders of men like them who came before, and is applying their principles, as they did, to real fights in the real world, not academic debates in dusty works of historical theology that only a few people read.)

The problem is that just because a trumpet is clear and gives a certain sound doesn't mean it's rallying the troops in the right direction.

I defended Wilson up until most of the major NAPARC denominations condemned the Federal Vision -- not because I agreed with the Federal Vision, which I have always opposed, but because I thought it was "in the ballpark" of a certain type of Dutch Reformed views of the covenant. I pretty much have to say that if the NAPARC denominations have spoken with near-unanimity, I need to defer to that judgment.

I really wish Doug Wilson would ask himself why so many other people in the Reformed world think he's not just wrong, but dangerously wrong, on justification and on the covenant. A lot of people love his views on Christian education and cultural engagement but believe -- correctly, in my view -- that his views on justification have turned off a lot of people who like most of the rest of what he does.
 
I think the answer is actually pretty simple. Uncertain trumpets do not rally troops. Clear trumpets do.

One thing that came to mind as a comparison with the way you put it is that General Patton was famously reprimanded for slapping a shell-shocked soldier and was remarkable at fighting Nazis. Pattons vices in wartime got mitigated and his virtues as a warrior got magnified. In peacetime, he overstepped his bounds, made a mess, and was conveniently dismissed as no longer needed.

Much the same mindset comes from other supporters of firebrand types, whether it's a politician, a social leader, or a churchman. Whatever their faults, "at least they're fighting while no one else is."
 
Is Wilson better than Trump, morally and doctrinally? I would say yes to both.

Difference is Trump doesn't claim to be a pastor or theologian. He puts himself forth as a deal maker and negotiator.

And with Trump, you know what you are getting. With Wilson, not so much without a lot of digging.
 
This would be a response Wilson would make today, correct? Can we address his argument(s) here so that people don't get confused. Because I'm finding myself confused, not knowing much about the man's theology.
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Would it further be worth comparing Wilson's version of Federal Vision to an article such as this recent one by Mark Jones on Future Judgment According to Works?
 
Strictly speaking, there is nothing "wrong" with Christian nationalism. The reason is that there is nothing "right" about constitutional republics or democracies. I am aware of nowhere in scripture where the Bible commands or endorses any form of government other than Israel theocracy during the era of the judges and monarchies in general. This is despite other forms of government existing during the time that the Bible was written and in accessible proximity or adjacency to Israel and other ancient Near East cultures i.e. democracy going back to at least 500 BC in Greece, rule by property owners and other elites, various tribal forms including alleged rudimentary socialism etc. The most legitimate objection to the concept is that pursuit and maintenance of Christian nationalism diverts Christians from the kingdom of heaven. John MacArthur did some very persuasive sermons on this.

On the other hand, even staying within the MacArthur framework Christians do have occupations. If a Christian can be a farmer, mechanic or cobbler then a Christian can be a politician. So if a Christian decides to make politics his trade what sort of politics should this Christian advocate? There is no Biblical case to be made for any form of government other than monarchy, with Daniel 2 (i.e. 39 etc) easily being interpreted to mean "the more absolute the better." With that being the case, if you are not going to advocate absolute monarchy - which I confess to not having a personal problem with - why not Christian nationalism?

I once heard of a pastor, who claimed that democracy was the best form of government because of the Bible-based practice of electing church officers by congregational vote. You can make an equal - or better! - case for choosing leaders using the lottery considering how the apostle Matthias was chosen by casting lots! Yes, the Holy Spirit moved the lots to cast Matthias. The same Holy Spirit should move congregations in selecting leaders for their local churches. Attempting to make either applicable to the wider body politic is casting pearls before swine. But this is the sort of thing that comes from going further than what the Bible actually says on the matter, either in one direction or the other.
 
I dont think he communicates well at all. He lacks clarity. He's confusing.
I agree with this. I used to show people how poor his writing was by taking every paragraph he wrote and summarizing it into once sentence. When you do this, you'll strip away his prose to find that he actually contradicts himself at times and is extremely confusing to understand. Here is an example:


I call this the Patented Doug Wilson Summary System(TM).
  1. Introduction - I want to introduce a new way to help categorize our social and political climate.
  2. NETTR NUTTRS - Typically, a conservative would not disavow anything more politically "rightward" than they only because "leftward" people want it so.
  3. However, as Christians, God's enemies are our enemies regardless of how politically "rightward" they are.
  4. But because many conservatives have done so, our country has an open borders immigration issue, for example.
  5. With the "Ethnic Nationalist" agenda becoming mainstream, any attempts to extricate ourselves from that leads to accusations of "gatekeeping".
  6. Our opponents do recognize that my Christian Nationalism is not the same as their Ethnic Nationalism, however, so our gatekeeping is valid.
  7. Ethno-nationalism is not a subset of Christian nationalism as the former is sinful for Christians to embrace while the latter is not.
  8. We're advocating Christianity in our nationalism.
  9. So What Is This New Metric? - When it comes to addressing instigators, there are appeasers and there are non-appeasers.
  10. This division among people is present in all forms and scales of human relationships.
  11. Appeasers rationalize that issues will cease when appeased whereas non-appeasers realize that this enables instigators.
  12. Here are examples of appeasers and the injustice this enables in courtrooms, crime and churches.
  13. I cite 2 Cor 11:19-20 to show that being an appeaser is sinful.
  14. Appeasers function without any reasonable basis grounded in reality, and it's obvious to see.
  15. Appeasers have no self-awareness of this.
  16. An Additional Category - In addition to appeasers and non-appeasers, there are instigators.
  17. I compare all three categories to World War II figures as evidence that my categorization works.
  18. While I acknowledge WWII to be extremely complicated, I believe classifying Churchill, Chamberlain and Hitler in these three categories is obvious and uncomplicated.
  19. Appeasers also tend to categorize non-appeasers as instigators, as the most recent situation of the National Guard highlights.
  20. Delinquents in the Snow - You should read C.S. Lewis's essay Delinquents in the Snow.
  21. Per the essay, vigilante justice exists because the appeasers MO will provoke reactionary vigilantism; non-appeasement prevents this.
  22. Russell Moore (and Joel Webbon) is responsible for Joel Webbon.
  23. The left has been indiscriminately calling anything on right-ward fascist no matter the scale, so there's no need to answer a non-substantial accusation directed at us.
  24. Charged terms such as "fascist," "racist," etc., have become meaningless due to overuse and scope-creep by the left, but it should be clear that actual fascism still exists isn't Christian.
  25. I assert through an analogy by absurdity that it is a categorical error to lump ethnic-nationalists together with Christian nationalists.
  26. The extremism we see today is therefore inevitable conclusion to the left's over-accusatory role against the right and the right's appeasement of them.
  27. This is crazy so let's have a drink.

When you read it like this, I think it's much easier to see the piece as damage control that is rich on assertion and poor in actual argumentation.
 
This would be a response Wilson would make today, correct? Can we address his argument(s) here so that people don't get confused. Because I'm finding myself confused, not knowing much about the man's theology.
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Would it further be worth comparing Wilson's version of Federal Vision to an article such as this recent one by Mark Jones on Future Judgment According to Works?

This is one of the best videos I have found that exposes some of the core issues. There are many serious errors in the Federal Vision, and some of them do hit at the core of the Gospel. Much of what they believe is difficult to understand, and this is often aggravated by the fact that they are intentionally unclear. They use terms that are commonly understood by Reformed believers to mean one thing, but in reality they are using them to mean something else. They often are inconsistent, claiming they believe in what the confession teaches in one sentence, only to deny the same truth a few sentences later. It is very difficult to understand what they truly believe, and that is by design.

Of all the leading proponents of the Federal Vision, Doug Wilson is the most careful to try to ensure he sounds Orthodox enough to not be definitively labeled a heretic. Some of the other leading voices are much more vocal and clear in their opposition to the Gospel, even arguing vehemently against justification by faith alone as seen in the video linked above. Steve Schlissel (who was one of the leading proponents of the federal vision, someone who signed the Federal Vision statement with Doug Wilson, and who Wilson has dedicated books for) debated John Otis and was pressing him to prove the doctrine of justification without using Romans, Galatians, or Ephesians. He was quite emphatic in his opposition to Otis who holds to the classic Reformed view on justification. Doug Wilson listened to that debate on Iron Sharpens Iron with Chris Arnzen, and then sought to defend Schlissel who was clearly opposing the true gospel in that debate, as well as in many quotes in his books.

Rich Lusk is another one of the leaders of the Federal Vision who has many disturbing statements that oppose the gospel. For example:
“The Bible is clear: obedience is necessary to receive eternal life. There is no justification apart from good works. But more needs to be said about final judgment. What role will faith play? What role will works play? Again, we find the Bible teaching that future justification is according to works. Final justification is to the (faithful) doers of the law (Rom. 2: 1ff) and by those good works which make faith complete (James 2: 14ff). Justification will not be fully realized until the resurrection. In fact, the main reason justification comes up at all in the Scriptures is because someday we will all stand before God’s judgment seat an answer for our deeds done in the body. (Emphasis Lusk)
In James 2, “justification” cannot be referring to a demonstration of justification, e.g., justification does and cannot mean something like “show to be justified.” Rather, James has in view the same kind of justification as Paul-forensic, soteric justification. Good works justify persons in James 2, not faith or ones status as a justified sinner. James is not telling his readers how to “justify their justification” or how to “give evidence of a true and lively faith.” Instead he says their persons will not be justified by faith alone, but also by good works of obedience they have done. The use of the preposition “by” is important since it indicates a sort of dual instrumentality in justification. In other words, in some sense, James is speaking of a justification in which faith and works combine together to justify. Future justification is according to one’s life pattern. No one dare claim these works to be meritorious, but they are necessary. There is congruence between the life we live and the destiny we will receive. (Emphasis is Lusk)
To unpack this a bit further, we can reconcile Paul and James by taking into account the factor of time (something systematic theology, with its abstract methodology, tends to leave out). Initial justification–the pole the Reformers focused on in their disputes with Rome-is by faith alone. Hence sola fide must stand unchallenged. Final justification, however, is according to works. This pole of justification takes into account the entirety of our lives-the obedience we’ve performed, the sins we’ve committed, the confession and repentance we’ve done. At the last day, our works will not have any meritorious value. In that sense, even before the great white judgment throne, we will plead nothing but the blood and resurrection of Jesus. We will place no confidence in anything we have accomplished-even what God has done in us and through us! Nevertheless, God’s verdict over us will be in accord with, and therefore in some sense based upon, the life we have lived.”

I can claim all day long that I hold to Justification by faith alone. But if I have no issue standing next to people who deny it, signing statements of faith with them, co-authoring books with them, dedicating books to them, doing podcasts with them, forming denominations with them, what does this reveal about what I really believe? At the very least it shows that I do not think justification by faith is as essential to Christianity as the Reformers believed it to be. They were willing to burn rather than compromise on this issue. Doug Wilson has consistently refused to condemn or disassociate himself from people who clearly deny the Gospel. And much of what he openly affirms, including the Federal Vision statement https://heidelblog.net/a-joint-federal-vision-profession-2007/ contain serious errors which cause much harm. I don't think we do anyone any favors by saying things like Doug Wilson is bad on justification but overall somehow he is an asset to the cause of Christ.
 
This would be a response Wilson would make today, correct? Can we address his argument(s) here so that people don't get confused. Because I'm finding myself confused, not knowing much about the man's theology.
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Would it further be worth comparing Wilson's version of Federal Vision to an article such as this recent one by Mark Jones on Future Judgment According to Works?
Correct.

Certainly. What are you confused about?

Grace and peace.
 
Correct.

Certainly. What are you confused about?

Grace and peace.
Here's what I'm confused about..

1. You posted this video without context. I don't know whether to interpret that as advocacy for Wilson with regards to his teaching on the subject.

2. There's nothing in the video which I can distinguish as being doctrinally unsound.
Firstly, I would question whether anyone on the PB would have an issue with anything he says here, doctrinally speaking.
Assuming the answer is no, as a follow-up question, does Wilson dodge or inadequately address the issue of debate in what he says in the video?
Assuming yes, can someone explicitly describe what he is failing to address in the video.

3. I am confused by the comments made at the end of the video from the 4:45 minute mark.
Is this a fair defense posited by Wilson against his accusers?
I quote, as an example, R Scott Clark from his blog post entitled 'Has Doug Wilson Really Changed His Mind About The Federal Vision?' -
He still affirms a conditional, temporary baptismal union with Christ that confers upon the baptized a temporary election, a temporary justification, a temporary adoption, and a temporary union with Christ. He still affirms that those who do not sufficiently cooperate will lose those temporary benefits. As he confesses, apostasy remains a “terrifying reality for many baptized Christians.” For Wilson and the rest of the Federal Visionists, it is not enough to acknowledge the greatness of our sin and misery, to trust in Christ alone for our complete salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, and seek to live under his gracious reign out of gratitude by daily seeking to put to death the old man and to be made alive in the new. The point of the Federal Vision theology, as with the Remonstrants, was to turn the covenant of grace into a covenant of works and to put the believer back under the law for his salvation.
Is R. Scott Clark fair in his assessment? Why or why not.


This is one of the best videos I have found that exposes some of the core issues. There are many serious errors in the Federal Vision, and some of them do hit at the core of the Gospel. Much of what they believe is difficult to understand, and this is often aggravated by the fact that they are intentionally unclear. They use terms that are commonly understood by Reformed believers to mean one thing, but in reality they are using them to mean something else. They often are inconsistent, claiming they believe in what the confession teaches in one sentence, only to deny the same truth a few sentences later. It is very difficult to understand what they truly believe, and that is by design.

Of all the leading proponents of the Federal Vision, Doug Wilson is the most careful to try to ensure he sounds Orthodox enough to not be definitively labeled a heretic. Some of the other leading voices are much more vocal and clear in their opposition to the Gospel, even arguing vehemently against justification by faith alone as seen in the video linked above. Steve Schlissel (who was one of the leading proponents of the federal vision, someone who signed the Federal Vision statement with Doug Wilson, and who Wilson has dedicated books for) debated John Otis and was pressing him to prove the doctrine of justification without using Romans, Galatians, or Ephesians. He was quite emphatic in his opposition to Otis who holds to the classic Reformed view on justification. Doug Wilson listened to that debate on Iron Sharpens Iron with Chris Arnzen, and then sought to defend Schlissel who was clearly opposing the true gospel in that debate, as well as in many quotes in his books.

Rich Lusk is another one of the leaders of the Federal Vision who has many disturbing statements that oppose the gospel. For example:
“The Bible is clear: obedience is necessary to receive eternal life. There is no justification apart from good works. But more needs to be said about final judgment. What role will faith play? What role will works play? Again, we find the Bible teaching that future justification is according to works. Final justification is to the (faithful) doers of the law (Rom. 2: 1ff) and by those good works which make faith complete (James 2: 14ff). Justification will not be fully realized until the resurrection. In fact, the main reason justification comes up at all in the Scriptures is because someday we will all stand before God’s judgment seat an answer for our deeds done in the body. (Emphasis Lusk)
In James 2, “justification” cannot be referring to a demonstration of justification, e.g., justification does and cannot mean something like “show to be justified.” Rather, James has in view the same kind of justification as Paul-forensic, soteric justification. Good works justify persons in James 2, not faith or ones status as a justified sinner. James is not telling his readers how to “justify their justification” or how to “give evidence of a true and lively faith.” Instead he says their persons will not be justified by faith alone, but also by good works of obedience they have done. The use of the preposition “by” is important since it indicates a sort of dual instrumentality in justification. In other words, in some sense, James is speaking of a justification in which faith and works combine together to justify. Future justification is according to one’s life pattern. No one dare claim these works to be meritorious, but they are necessary. There is congruence between the life we live and the destiny we will receive. (Emphasis is Lusk)
To unpack this a bit further, we can reconcile Paul and James by taking into account the factor of time (something systematic theology, with its abstract methodology, tends to leave out). Initial justification–the pole the Reformers focused on in their disputes with Rome-is by faith alone. Hence sola fide must stand unchallenged. Final justification, however, is according to works. This pole of justification takes into account the entirety of our lives-the obedience we’ve performed, the sins we’ve committed, the confession and repentance we’ve done. At the last day, our works will not have any meritorious value. In that sense, even before the great white judgment throne, we will plead nothing but the blood and resurrection of Jesus. We will place no confidence in anything we have accomplished-even what God has done in us and through us! Nevertheless, God’s verdict over us will be in accord with, and therefore in some sense based upon, the life we have lived.”

I can claim all day long that I hold to Justification by faith alone. But if I have no issue standing next to people who deny it, signing statements of faith with them, co-authoring books with them, dedicating books to them, doing podcasts with them, forming denominations with them, what does this reveal about what I really believe? At the very least it shows that I do not think justification by faith is as essential to Christianity as the Reformers believed it to be. They were willing to burn rather than compromise on this issue. Doug Wilson has consistently refused to condemn or disassociate himself from people who clearly deny the Gospel. And much of what he openly affirms, including the Federal Vision statement https://heidelblog.net/a-joint-federal-vision-profession-2007/ contain serious errors which cause much harm. I don't think we do anyone any favors by saying things like Doug Wilson is bad on justification but overall somehow he is an asset to the cause of Christ.
Whist I and am sure many others are grateful for your post, with respect I don't want to spend 85 minutes on a video if it can be helped, and the question pertains to Wilson's own teaching on the subject rather than those he has co-signed statements with, though I agree it is bad to align oneself with those who are clearly proponents of heresy.
 
Here's what I'm confused about..

1. You posted this video without context. I don't know whether to interpret that as advocacy for Wilson with regards to his teaching on the subject.

2. There's nothing in the video which I can distinguish as being doctrinally unsound.
Firstly, I would question whether anyone on the PB would have an issue with anything he says here, doctrinally speaking.
Assuming the answer is no, as a follow-up question, does Wilson dodge or inadequately address the issue of debate in what he says in the video?
Assuming yes, can someone explicitly describe what he is failing to address in the video.

3. I am confused by the comments made at the end of the video from the 4:45 minute mark.
Is this a fair defense posited by Wilson against his accusers?
I quote, as an example, R Scott Clark from his blog post entitled 'Has Doug Wilson Really Changed His Mind About The Federal Vision?' -

Is R. Scott Clark fair in his assessment? Why or why not.


Whist I and am sure many others are grateful for your post, with respect I don't want to spend 85 minutes on a video if it can be helped, and the question pertains to Wilson's own teaching on the subject rather than those he has co-signed statements with, though I agree it is bad to align oneself with those who are clearly proponents of heresy.
Part of the confusion is probably due to the way Wilson, as a federal visionist, views union with Christ as something that applies equally to elect and reprobate baptized members of the church in both quality and quantity. This view shapes the way he thinks about faithfulness, perseverance, apostacy, and justification/vindication. On the one hand, he affirms that the elect will never finally fall away and will always have justificatory living faith. On the other, he affirms that the reprobate members of the church may have real living faith as members of Christ and attendant spiritual gifts, but that they will finally fall from grace and their faith will not be "vindicated" by their works in the last day. This is why sometimes he speaks about "final justification" as contingent upon faithfulness. This is effectively quite similar to the way Arminians think about predestination and election, although Wilson wouldn't use the language of foreseen meritorious works being the basis of election.

The federal vision issue really disfigures any otherwise orthodox reformed formulations.
 
Here's what I'm confused about..

1. You posted this video without context. I don't know whether to interpret that as advocacy for Wilson with regards to his teaching on the subject.

2. There's nothing in the video which I can distinguish as being doctrinally unsound.
Firstly, I would question whether anyone on the PB would have an issue with anything he says here, doctrinally speaking.
Assuming the answer is no, as a follow-up question, does Wilson dodge or inadequately address the issue of debate in what he says in the video?
Assuming yes, can someone explicitly describe what he is failing to address in the video.

3. I am confused by the comments made at the end of the video from the 4:45 minute mark.
Is this a fair defense posited by Wilson against his accusers?
I quote, as an example, R Scott Clark from his blog post entitled 'Has Doug Wilson Really Changed His Mind About The Federal Vision?' -

Is R. Scott Clark fair in his assessment? Why or why not.


Whist I and am sure many others are grateful for your post, with respect I don't want to spend 85 minutes on a video if it can be helped, and the question pertains to Wilson's own teaching on the subject rather than those he has co-signed statements with, though I agree it is bad to align oneself with those who are clearly proponents of heresy.
1. It was intended neither to advocate nor critique, but rather, to allow the man himself to speak directly to the issues at hand.

2. I agree, and would add that we can only assess the adequacy of his addressal of issues which are those expressly posed in the clip. To these, he speaks clearly. For Wilson’s engagement with other issues related to this subject, see his numerous written works, seminar lectures, interviews, online podcasts, blog posts, etc. which he has delivered over the past few decades.

3. In response to the question asked? Yes. So, insofar as one has put forth this sort of accusation against Wilson, he answers it straightforwardly. But I may be misunderstanding the source of confusion here.

As to whether Clark’s assessment is accurate, no. Wilson teaches a permanent, efficacious baptism, wherein an objectifiable engrafting into the body of Christ occurs. The question is, Is this baptism, ultimately, one unto salvation, or unto condemnation? as parallels the waters of the flood (1 Pet. 2:19–21).

Wilson has never posited the contradictorily termed ‘temporary election.’ Can, for instance, natural or engrafted branches be cut from the covenantal tree? Yes (Rom. 11:17–21). And if one were to apostatize, ‘Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?’ (Heb. 10:29). The waters of baptism are here still binding upon the apostate, yet in a very different way than that of the elect. The relationship to Christ, though just as real, is of an antithetical, damnable nature.

As to his supposed affirmation ‘that those who do not sufficiently cooperate will lose those temporary benefits,' the video speaks directly.

'As he confesses, apostasy remains a "terrifying reality for many baptized Christians."' In light of St Paul’s own recurring admonitions on this wise, would any disagree?

Clark's final point is unfounded. In regards to works, Wilson is in accord with St James—living, saving faith is never alone. Are the works following faith of ourselves? No, they are wholly of grace, and by the power of the Spirit. Do works, in any way, merit our salvation? As Wilson has repeatedly made clear, no.

I pray this brings clarity. Grace and peace!
 
Here's what I'm confused about..

1. You posted this video without context. I don't know whether to interpret that as advocacy for Wilson with regards to his teaching on the subject.

2. There's nothing in the video which I can distinguish as being doctrinally unsound.
Firstly, I would question whether anyone on the PB would have an issue with anything he says here, doctrinally speaking.
Assuming the answer is no, as a follow-up question, does Wilson dodge or inadequately address the issue of debate in what he says in the video?
Assuming yes, can someone explicitly describe what he is failing to address in the video.

3. I am confused by the comments made at the end of the video from the 4:45 minute mark.
Is this a fair defense posited by Wilson against his accusers?
I quote, as an example, R Scott Clark from his blog post entitled 'Has Doug Wilson Really Changed His Mind About The Federal Vision?' -

Is R. Scott Clark fair in his assessment? Why or why not.


Whist I and am sure many others are grateful for your post, with respect I don't want to spend 85 minutes on a video if it can be helped, and the question pertains to Wilson's own teaching on the subject rather than those he has co-signed statements with, though I agree it is bad to align oneself with those who are clearly proponents of heresy.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (2 John 1:9-11 KJV)
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. (Titus 1:9, ESV)

You can’t really separate his views from his alignment with those who openly espouse heresies regarding the gospel. He is one of the leading proponents of the federal vision. He was one of the signers of the federal vision statement. It has been repeatedly exposed as false by many reformed theologians and multiple reformed denominations. But he still remains an adherent to the views outlined in the federal vision statement and still defends and maintains loyalty to those who signed it who are more openly heretical on the Gospel. At the very least he had abdicated his responsibility to expose, reprove, and stand apart from those who pervert the Gospel. This alone is reason to seriously question taking in any of his teachings.

Let’s say I am a pastor who claims to be orthodox on the Trinity. But then I get together with a group of pastors and participate in a conference with some new interesting views on the Trinity. We make some statements that are very concerning to many in the Reformed tradition that seem to lean toward Arianism. I continue to repeat my claims that I am as orthodox as Athanasius on the Trinity. But then I sign a statement with many of the others who participated in the conference, and this statement has some new and very concerning views on the Trinity. And some of the other crafters of this statement go beyond the questionable statements I have made and move into outright Arianism. Many reformed theologians and denominations read the statement we have made on the Trinity and condemn it as heretical taking care to point out the specific areas of concern. So to avoid losing influence I stop associating my name as openly with the group who signed the statement, but I still hold to all my views which have been shown to be in error by multiple reformed denominations and still maintain my loyalties and even defend those who have openly embraced Arianism. But I still vocally claim to wholeheartedly embrace an orthodox view on the Trinity. How much would you trust my claims to be orthodox on the Trinity? And how well am I living up to the responsibility of a minister to rebuke those who contradict sound doctrine? Instead I am greatly endangering the flock by endorsing and working alongside those who have embraced damnable heresies even if I continue to claim that I myself hold to a more orthodox view.
 
As Wilson has repeatedly made clear, no

Unfortunately, as has been proven to be the case, it's not clear. Wilson keeps talking and at best muddys the waters.

It reminds me of the section in Institutes where Calvin goes over why we often need such specificity in words to describe the Trinity. If asked the surface level question "Is Jesus God and the Son of God?" Arius would have affirmed this. But it asked, "Is Christ consubstantial with the Father?" then the error rears it's head. (Institutes 1:13:4)

On the surface Mr. Wilson seems to be orthodox, but when you get deeper into what he says and teaches, that's when the error becomes clear.
 
Let’s say I am a pastor who claims to be orthodox on the Trinity. But then I get together with a group of pastors and participate in a conference with some new interesting views on the Trinity. We make some statements that are very concerning to many in the Reformed tradition that seem to lean toward Arianism. I continue to repeat my claims that I am as orthodox as Athanasius on the Trinity. But then I sign a statement with many of the others who participated in the conference, and this statement has some new and very concerning views on the Trinity. And some of the other crafters of this statement go beyond the questionable statements I have made and move into outright Arianism. Many reformed theologians and denominations read the statement we have made on the Trinity and condemn it as heretical taking care to point out the specific areas of concern. So to avoid losing influence I stop associating my name as openly with the group who signed the statement, but I still hold to all my views which have been shown to be in error by multiple reformed denominations and still maintain my loyalties and even defend those who have openly embraced Arianism. But I still vocally claim to wholeheartedly embrace an orthodox view on the Trinity. How much would you trust my claims to be orthodox on the Trinity? And how well am I living up to the responsibility of a minister to rebuke those who contradict sound doctrine? Instead I am greatly endangering the flock by endorsing and working alongside those who have embraced damnable heresies even if I continue to claim that I myself hold to a more orthodox view.
If we're going to compare the Federal Vision crowd to ancient Christology debates, I'd compare them (or at least Wilson) more to the Origenists than to the Arians. The Origenists were certainly wrong in their subordinationist ideas, but Arianism was a different religion entirely.
 
If we're going to compare the Federal Vision crowd to ancient Christology debates, I'd compare them (or at least Wilson) more to the Origenists than to the Arians. The Origenists were certainly wrong in their subordinationist ideas, but Arianism was a different religion entirely.
Is the essence of the religion in Christology, or in the Gospel? It seems to me that Federal Vision, while formally affirming the gospel of justification through faith, effectively sets up a system of hypothetical election and covenantal unity with Christ contingent upon continuing in good works.

It might also be relevant to consider that Arius' idea about the subordinate, created divinity of the Son was only an incremental variation of Origen's ideas about subbordinationism, pre-existent souls, and the union of God with a pre-existent human soul in the incarnation. That is to say that the errors of Origen paved the way for the heresy of Arius in the next generation.
 
Is the essence of the religion in Christology, or in the Gospel? It seems to me that Federal Vision, while formally affirming the gospel of justification through faith, effectively sets up a system of hypothetical election and covenantal unity with Christ contingent upon continuing in good works.

It might also be relevant to consider that Arius' idea about the subordinate, created divinity of the Son was only an incremental variation of Origen's ideas about subbordinationism, pre-existent souls, and the union of God with a pre-existent human soul in the incarnation. That is to say that the errors of Origen paved the way for the heresy of Arius in the next generation.
I know the Arian example was just an illustration, but it might be more apt than one realizes: Wilson also messes up the Trinity.
 
I know the Arian example was just an illustration, but it might be more apt than one realizes: Wilson also messes up the Trinity.
But I presume he would not endorse either Arius or Origen (Father as sole autotheos) on the Trinity, so would his trinitarianism actually be relevant to the discussion of whether he is a false teacher?
 
But I presume he would not endorse either Arius or Origen (Father as sole autotheos) on the Trinity, so would his trinitarianism actually be relevant to the discussion of whether he is a false teacher?
He won't endorse Arius, but he teaches subordinationism, so we get to hit him with that charge.
 
Is the essence of the religion in Christology, or in the Gospel? It seems to me that Federal Vision, while formally affirming the gospel of justification through faith, effectively sets up a system of hypothetical election and covenantal unity with Christ contingent upon continuing in good works.

It might also be relevant to consider that Arius' idea about the subordinate, created divinity of the Son was only an incremental variation of Origen's ideas about subbordinationism, pre-existent souls, and the union of God with a pre-existent human soul in the incarnation. That is to say that the errors of Origen paved the way for the heresy of Arius in the next generation.

Jordan Cooper's lectures on Trinitarian heresies made my jaw drop when he described some of the intermediate stages in early Servetus/PolishBrethren/Socinian heretical developments. For example, I remember that there would be no issue among some of these folks that Christ was virgin born or even that the Holy Spirit was divine but the Son was not among some. Neither was there the same alignment with deism that later marked the New England colonies and some branches of English nonconformity. It's definitely a progression of errors from one generation to the next.


Note: these aren't going to be topics where we disagree with this confessional Lutheran at all.
 
Re. Servetus/PolishBrethren/Socinian heretical developments -- oh boy, here we go again. Great example of how messed-up theology destroyed both the Italian Reformation and the Polish Reformation.

It's fairly easy to refute the Unitarianism of New England on a long list of reasons as having laid the axe to the root of the tree of life.

That's much harder to do with the earlier false teachers on the Trinity. They wormed their way into Protestant churches, most of them Reformed, and not only made shipwreck of the faith of many, but caused a massive Roman Catholic pushback that undid the Reformation in almost all of Italy and much of Poland by causing people to think that if they accepted Calvinism it had a seed of rationalism which, when full-grown, would lead to denial of the Trinity as irrational. (Caution when reading Lutheran sources from that era: Some of them bought into that Catholic attack on Calvinism, claiming that the same "rationalistic" attitude toward the Real Presence led to "rationalism" on the Trinity.)

Keep that in mind when we have to defend ourselves against accusations that Calvin was a monster for the execution of Servetus.

In the context of the 1500s and 1600s, that was widely viewed as probably the single best thing the Genevan church did by proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that they refused to tolerate anti-Trinitarian views. The Catholics tried but failed to blame John Calvin's theology as anti-Trinitarian, and there was an actual court case in Italy in which Roman Catholic judges were forced by the facts to admit that Calvin was not anti-Trinitarian and punished (though lightly) a Roman Catholic priest who had libeled an Italian Reformed pastor by claiming that not only the pastor but also Calvin denied the Trinity.

Since people google: No, I'm not advocating execution of heretics. Excommunication is the proper remedy, and apart from a formally covenanted Christian commonwealth, there are no grounds for the civil magistrate to take excommunication as a ground for civil action.

But in the 1500s and 1600s, Calvin and his successors did not only what they needed to do, but what, for apologetic reasons, was simply essential. Anything short of excommunication and banishment, with the death penalty to be applied if the person ever returned, would have been viewed in that era as toleration of damnable soul-destroying heresy, and would have exposed Reformed people to the accusation that they were "soft" on the Trinity.

It was a whole different world back then on toleration of false doctrine.

Jordan Cooper's lectures on Trinitarian heresies made my jaw drop when he described some of the intermediate stages in early Servetus/PolishBrethren/Socinian heretical developments. For example, I remember that there would be no issue among some of these folks that Christ was virgin born or even that the Holy Spirit was divine but the Son was not among some. Neither was there the same alignment with deism that later marked the New England colonies and some branches of English nonconformity. It's definitely a progression of errors from one generation to the next.


Note: these aren't going to be topics where we disagree with this confessional Lutheran at all.
 
This article by my husband will be helpful. One reader said:

*This article provides the wisest, most insightful, and comprehensive biblical analysis I have read on the Moscow Mood—which has influenced and infected many areas of Evangelical Christianity.

 
This article by my husband will be helpful. One reader said:

*This article provides the wisest, most insightful, and comprehensive biblical analysis I have read on the Moscow Mood—which has influenced and infected many areas of Evangelical Christianity.



Brandy, you may want to pass this on to your husband. While you and I have never met, at least not as far as I know, we have a number of mutual friends and acquaintances at Springfield URC/Gospel of Grace Church/Heritage ARP/Heritage OPC, of which I was close to the longest-term member before transferring out when the church joined the OPC earlier this year. I posted this comment on your husband's article. I've held off for a long time on commenting, but I believe a key fact is being missed by others who are responding to the article: being the wife of a former Army officer and former Air Force chaplain, you understand that the debate over "coarse language" isn't just "he's icky" or "that's gross talk." It comes from a personality and blunt approach to things that, in its proper place, is legitimate. In other places, it causes serious problems, and those problems are addressed by Scripture's warning about putting "brawlers" and "strikers" into church office.

______

I usually avoid discussions of Doug Wilson for many reasons, among them being that I sympathize with a previous commenter [on Sexton's article in the comments section of "Mere Orthodoxy"] whose pastor said, with regard to one of Wilson's books, "I don't care much for Doug Wilson but when he is right he is right."

In his political fights, Wilson has the right enemies. Less so in his ecclesiastical fights, though on some points other than the Federal Vision and related doctrines, I agree with him. He teaches sovereign grace, and that's more than I can say for most of modern American evangelicalism. People who warmly welcome Piper and MacArthur into the "big tent" version of what it means to be "Reformed" often don't have a good argument for why MacArthur's dispensationalism is tolerable but Wilson's views are "outside the camp," other than that MacArthur was nicer to confessionally Reformed people when he disagreed with them.

However, having seen this article by Jeremy Sexton discussed repeatedly on numerous Reformed message boards, with a lot of attention given to the point of whether it is legitimate for Christians to use strong and even near-profane language, I think a lot of people are missing the relevance of this item from the author's biography: Sexton is a former U.S. Army officer and was later a U.S. Air Force chaplain.

He knows what coarse talk means.

For more than two decades, I have lived and worked outside Fort Leonard Wood in the rural Missouri Ozarks, the home of the US Army Engineer School, Chemical School, and Military Police School. Sexton and I live about an hour and a half apart. We've never met or talked, but Sexton and I both know more than a few things about what it means to live and work in places where coarse talk is normal (at least outside church buildings), and what an "alpha male" personality involves, and how it affects church life.

I could cite other pastors in the Ozarks who are far better equipped than me to explain the differences in dealing with young military personnel who join churches and have a "Type A" personality. Let's just say it's nothing like what people might expect in a rural Southern community in which the churches are usually led by older men who have been around forever, know everybody in their community, whose ancestors founded the church they now serve, and act much more like a grandfather than like the aggressive young men who have become common in the "YRR" and "New Calvinist" movements. There is a huge difference between the "Old Calvinism" of the traditional Reformed denominations and the "New Calvinism," and the differences may have to do more with personality than with doctrine. A good case can be made that the individualism and anti-authoritarianism and lack of respect for older generations found in much of "New Calvinism" has led to a de-emphasis on the Reformed view of a multigenerational covenant and on ecclesiastical accountability beyond the local church, but that goes beyond the point I want to make here.

The "coarse language" issue is a symptom of an underlying issue.

I think both Sexton and I would agree with Wilson on at least one thing: because most Americans today have never worn the uniform and have little understanding of either the military or the police and just how horrible the very real dangers are of criminals inside our country and enemies outside it, most Americans take our safety for granted and fail to understand the truth of the principle that is often wrongly attributed to Orwell, namely, that "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Wilson has a real point when he says American culture and the American church have gone weak, and in some quarters, have "gone woke." Recognition of that truth is a major part of why people are attracted to Wilson.

The question is whether, after correctly diagnosing the problem, the offered prescription cures the disease, makes it worse, or addresses some of the problems while creating new ones.

I lean toward the third.

Coarse language, rightly applied, is at least arguably biblical. Wrongly applied, it does great damage.

Luther is often appealed to, and legitimately so, as an example of coarse and even profane language by some of the leading Reformers. It doesn't take much to find things Luther said and wrote which would offend most American evangelicals today. The same is sometimes said of Calvin, though he was far more careful in his targeted use of fiery language. The problem is that on some points Luther was seriously wrong, including his language about the Jewish people, which for centuries now has been picked up and used for flat-out godless purposes going far beyond Luther's beliefs.

Violence and anger are sometimes warranted by God's Word. A violent and angry personality may be one to which the warnings of I Timothy 3:3 apply: "Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous."

I don't think Wilson can fairly be accused of being greedy or covetous. Perhaps he himself is not a "striker" or a "brawler." It is a matter of fact that Wilson has been quite patient with at least some of those with whom he disagrees when he thinks they are in agreement on majors but disagreement on the minors. But are those who follow Wilson going to be as patient as I know Wilson has sought to be with men who agree with him on many issues but disagree on others?

Wilson is from a generation that due to the wheels of time, with age and illness and death, is beginning to pass off the ecclesiastical scene. When he passes, he will be known not only by his actions but also by the actions of his followers.

Wilson knows that. He's done a lot of good work. But like many other Reformed leaders of earlier eras, he may be known as much by his problems as by -- to cite only two examples -- his commendable work for many decades in promoting Christian education and the need to apply a Christian worldview outside the walls of the church.

Jonathan Edwards is today often appealed to, and correctly so, by Reformed people who reject the stereotype that Calvinists are scholastic bookworms who care nothing about evangelism or personal conversion and merely fight each other over tertiary and quaternary points of doctrine. What we often forget is that Edwards' immediate successors were known for their "downgrade" of Reformed distinctives, picking up what were minor points in Edwards' theology and making them into major problems that troubled Reformed churches for several generations until they died out because they were clearly and obviously contrary to the Reformed confessional consensus. Modern Edwardseans such as Gerstner and his successors at Ligonier rightly reject Edwards' peculiarities and focus on his main points.

Time will tell how Wilson is viewed. My guess is history will see both the good and not-so-good parts of his work. Much of how his legacy gets viewed will depend upon how his successors behave, and what parts of Wilson's work they choose to emphasize.

The "coarse language" debate about Wilson, sadly, is a tip of an iceberg that gets a lot of attention while the underlying issues that give rise to his blunt speaking often get missed. And that goes for both those who appreciate and who attack Wilson.
 
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