James 4:3

[satz]

3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.


what does it mean to ask to 'consume it upon (our) lusts?'

Does this passage prohibit asking God for anything we want would enjoy etc etc?

I looked though a couple of commentaries and some mentioned that lusts here are inordinate or inapproproinal desires. What do you guys think?

 

[toddpedlar]

Hi Mark -

The context helps to show that the apostle is here describing a situation in which people are under the influence of worldiness - he is drawing them back to God, and exhorting them to submit themselves to God (4:7-10), humbling themselves and aligning themselves with His ways.

The passions or lusts spoken of surely prompt people to ask inappropriately; the context also indicates to us that these lusts are causing the people to war with each other (4:1-2). Consider also the broader context of the letter, in which we have in chapter 1 the discussion of lust enticing and luring people - conceiving sin, and sin bringing forth death.

Certainly this verse cannot be used to argue against asking for things we desire, or events we want to come to pass. There is far too much exhortation in Scripture for us to call on God for all kinds of things. Clearly, however, we must examine our hearts and test ourselves to see if what we call upon God for is godly, God-honoring, and that we are not pursuing worldly ends in asking it.

Just my twopence for the moment,

Todd

 

[JKLeoPCA]

I'd just add that when I review this verse I have in my notes to see 2 Tim 2:24, and I Corinthians 9:24-27.

In worldliness it's easy to think of God as a divine and loving butler, who is there to make my life better (health, wealth, and happiness).

But here we are exhorted to remember that we are not in this for ourselves. As the 2 Timothy reference points out we are in this to the glory of Him who enlisted us. Surely the soldier desires a new sword from time to time, and better boots to grip the battle grounds more effectively. but the soldier would seem foolish and an idol sloth if he were to ask his officers for a lounge chair, to take into battle.

 

[Robin]

Thank you, Todd, for reminding us the importance of CONTEXT!!



Robin

 

[satz]

Todd, John, thanks for the replies

As i see it, there are things we should definitely ask God for. These are things for his glory or which his word specifically says are good for us.

Then there are things that are forbidden to ask for, that is, the fulfilling of any sinful desire or appetite.

But i think there is a sort of middle ground that i am unclear about. What about asking for things we desire that are not in themselves sinful?

What about wanting to go on a holiday with your family? Hoping to get a new car? A promotion at work?

I know all of these things can become idols and sinful but i don't think they are INHERENTLY wrong. Would you pray for these things?

 

[toddpedlar]

I would pray for them, depending on the circumstances. What is important in these things is the heart - what does my heart desire in that new promotion? What does my soul yearn after with that holiday? Am I desirous of God-honoring things, or am I simply seeking my flesh's desires? This is the kind of soul-investigation that I think we are all called to, in ALL things, not simply this instance.

The middle ground is murky, because our souls still have sin in our members to contend with. We easily become convinced of the godliness of our actions, and thoughts and desires, only to later find out that we truly were following our flesh and not conducting ourselves in a spiritual frame. THe middle ground is full of all kinds of good things - good things that we can either pray for righteously, and at the same time, another can pray for them sinfully. A car, a job, a house, a wife, all of these things. I don't think there is necessarily a "yay" or "nay" attached to most things we might pray for - it's the heart - and the mouth speaks (and prays) out of its treasury, showing forth its true nature.

Not much help, I guess - but it is my view of the Bible's teaching on this matter.

[Edited on 7-15-2005 by toddpedlar]

 

[JKLeoPCA]

I'd just add to that, to read on in James 4, verses 13-15. Make your plans to see family and do whatever, and "if the Lord wills" you will do this or that.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

James is warning against prayer for the purpose of getting things we 'want' or 'desire', rather than praying that our 'desires' and 'wants' be conformed to the will of God (so that our prayers would always be answered positively).

 

[satz]

Gabriel,

are you saying it is wrong to pray for anything at all we desire?

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

No, as long as our desires are becoming conformed to the Godly desires God would want us to have. Selfish desires should not be prayed for. Whatever you do, do all for the glory of God.