John 14 v12 - support for charismatics?

Discussion in 'The Gospels & Acts' started by Eoghan, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    As to working miracles: Paul’s actual word is “powers,” which has a very different nuance. It’s also why the Eastern fathers called miracle workers “thaumaturge,” which is much closer in concept to the original. This is a superior way of thinking since it cuts off at the knees the modern secular worry: "Can we believe in miracles because Mr Hume said we couldn't?"
     
  2. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    The sign that Apostles were gifted to do were for confirmation though, and those ceased, but the rensing gifts still continued forward!
     
  3. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    They were gifted to do miracles, while we are not, but God can still preform them as He sees fit to do them per His will.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  4. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    The context refers to the Apostles if that time and setting.
     
  5. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    No it doesn't. It says "he who believes," which is open ended.
     
  6. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    You realize that not once in this discussion have you offered an argument for that saying? You just keep repeating it.
     
  7. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    I have no idea what this means
     
  8. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Folks slow down, and David, clean up your posts so folks can understand what you are saying.
     
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  9. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Jesus was addressing His Apostles, as the ending o if Mark Gospel seems to be referring to what the Apostles themselves did during the time of Acts, and not to be seen as continuing for all of Church history going forward.
     
  10. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Writer of Hebrews affirms that the Apostles confirmed to them by signs and wonders, but did not include himself able to do them, do evidently no longer required to be done moving forward. Hebrews2:4
     
  11. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    God can still do miracles and so called signs today as He chooses, but none of us today are gifted to do such as Apostles were by God.
     
  12. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    This is an assertion. You have yet to deal with the lexical arguments.
     
  13. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    Every reason to believe so.
     
  14. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    The problem is that numerous non-apostles "worked powers" (literal Greek).

    The gifts (which the the writer never calls the miracles) are not for authentication, but edification. That's completely irrelevant to the author of Hebrews' claim.
     
  15. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Which makes Paul's inclusion of the "working of powers" in the gifts of the Spirit passages contradictory to your above statement.
     
  16. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    I'm out.
     
  17. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

     
  18. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    You still see Apostles among us today?
     
  19. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    The ones gifted to be the Apostles confirmed, while the others used them to edify.
     
  20. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Hebrews claims those gifts were used to confirm, as did Mark!
     
  21. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    All spiritual gifts were in use at that time, but not all are today in the Body of Christ.
     

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