Military Helicopter Crashes

[Michael]

Having access to some very well respected servicemen here I thought I'd ask a question about military helicopter crashes. Simply put, why are there so many? Maybe it's just me but as far back as I've been regularly watching the news [since Desert Storm] reports of helicopter crashes appear to be very common. Often these are completely unrelated to enemy fire. They even seem to happen frequently in the US. With all the advances in aviation, and especially with everything the military has access to, I would think these would decrease over time. But maybe not. After all, just the other night during the raid on Bin Laden--a raid that was meticulously rehearsed with the best men and equipment--another chopper bit the dust.

Please help educate me.

 

[O'GodHowGreatThouArt]

It's not surprising in the Middle East region. As there is a lot of sand, it can get into the mechanicals of the aircraft...some of which is unreachable without tearing it in half.

Get enough of the sand in it, it'll send the aircraft down, and there is very little warning when it does come.

 

[earl40]

I wonder why they didn't use a new copter for Bin Laden? Or if the maintenance mechanics are in deep doo doo now.

 

[Rufus]

My Dads an Infantrymen so helicopter crashes are something we usually never talk about, however I believe I remember my Dad telling me and my brother about faults in the Black Hawks design.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

Helicopters are just less stable than airplanes in general. Unfortunately, you can't land a plane in someone's backyard.

 

[JP Wallace]

Yes, helicopters are just plane (sic) unreliable compared to fixed wing.It's not just a military or Black Hawk problem (though because of number of units, frequency of use, and manufacturing and design factors, it can appear that way). They have powerful engines, lots of linkages, lots of moving parts, huge torques and stress on the engine and moving parts at take-off and landing. When they go wrong there's pretty much nothing you can do unless you're at quite an altitude. Once the engine stops you've got seconds to get it to auto-rotate or you're in trouble.

 

[LawrenceU]

It is really very simple to understand. A helicopter is a million parts trying to fly away from one another because of the saw of centrifugal force being held in place by a few welds, bolts and nuts, and fixatives.

Give me fixed wing every time.

 

[kvanlaan]

Give me fixed wing every time.

You mean like an Osprey?

 

[MLCOPE2]

Unfortunately, you can't land a plane in someone's backyard.

Au contraire, mon frère

[video=youtube;HHStTN8z1MQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHStTN8z1MQ[/video]

 

[discipulo]

Michael, allegedly the helicopter that crashed in the arrest / killing of Bin Laden was a secret helicopter. I have no idea wahy this is going on the news, I mean if it was secret.

I saw great part of the White House press conference yesterday because of the non disclosure of the photos and there was no mention of an helicopter crash though.

Michael Cope, thank you for posting that fantastic aircraft

The British came with that wild card, the Harrier, so long ago and yet no one else followed, and it's been a great plane, I've heard.

Remember the Concorde? Such a beauty, no one followed that trend too.

[video=youtube;mWtwv8-yLR8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWtwv8-yLR8&feature=related[/video]

 

[JP Wallace]

The Harrier was a worse death trap than helicopters for while until they got computers to take some of the workload, even then they were still a handful! But stunning aircraft indeed with unique capabilities...Google 'viffing'

We've nearly retired all our Harriers (GR9's will be around until the new F-35 Lightning 2 aircraft are delivered - 2018)...there's another one you can land in the backyard

 

[MLCOPE2]

The British came with that wild card, the Harrier, so long ago and yet no one else followed, and it's been a great plane, I've heard.

I've always been fascinated with them. They are truly brilliant to watch!

 

[LawrenceU]

Give me fixed wing every time.

You mean like an Osprey?

The Osprey / V-22 often gets a bad rap. It is a amazing airframe. They are getting the kinks worked out, and it actually has as good a record in its recent mod as most helicopters. They are amazing to watch.

But, I wasn't thinking about them. I personally like this little gem:

Of course it can't insert or extract troops, but as one of my buddies used to say, 'If men can't get safely in riding a parachute then we don't need to put them there. Let us just drop a few tonnes on their heads and the problem will be solved.'

 

[AThornquist]

After all, just the other night during the raid on Bin Laden--a raid that was meticulously rehearsed with the best men and equipment--another chopper bit the dust.

The news reported that they were under RPG fire, so the down of this chopper was because of reactive, desperate evasion.

 

[fishingpipe]

A friend of mine who is a USAF Reserve jet mechanic was telling me his guess was that when they got down in the compound the height of the walls caused the air movement to change (or something like that) and the helicopter couldn't remain stable. He went on to say something about a vortex ring state conflicting with the lift of the rotor, or something. I thought it was an interesting perspective, though I couldn't pretend to understand it.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

Originally Posted by Bill The Baptist
Unfortunately, you can't land a plane in someone's backyard.
Au contraire, mon frère

Ah yes, the marvelous Harrier. It is truly a fine piece of equipment, and while I am sure it could have landed in Osama's backyard, I doubt it could have held a half-dozen SEALs and a dead body.

 

[sastark]

A bit off-topic, but here is an interesting article about the helicopter that crashed during the raid on Bin Laden's compound: Aviation Geeks Scramble to ID bin Laden Raid

 

[MLCOPE2]

I doubt it could have held a half-dozen SEALs and a dead body.

I know, but it's still fun to look at!

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Having access to some very well respected servicemen here I thought I'd ask a question about military helicopter crashes. Simply put, why are there so many? Maybe it's just me but as far back as I've been regularly watching the news [since Desert Storm] reports of helicopter crashes appear to be very common. Often these are completely unrelated to enemy fire. They even seem to happen frequently in the US. With all the advances in aviation, and especially with everything the military has access to, I would think these would decrease over time. But maybe not. After all, just the other night during the raid on Bin Laden--a raid that was meticulously rehearsed with the best men and equipment--another chopper bit the dust.

Please help educate me.

I was just talking about that to a friend of mine in Tel Aviv the other day. He's in the Israeli army and he agrees that helicopter crashes are far to common. I don't know why they are unreliable, but they apparently are. Maybe it's just the dirty climate.

 

[discipulo]

A bit off-topic, but here is an interesting article about the helicopter that crashed during the raid on Bin Laden's compound: Aviation Geeks Scramble to ID bin Laden Raid

Sorry guys, I thought the thread was actually about the specific helicopter that fell in the Bin Laden raid. I was just seeing the rumors on the news so I assumed you were discussing the same issue.

Seth, thank you for posting, quite interesting, appart from mentions on a secret / avant garde type of helicopter I had no clue what it could be, this article seems quite detailed.

I guess since the topic is over helicopters liabilities in general, you'll find this quite an interesting after all it is very recent heli wreck, and what an heli, a stealth sci fi heli indeed.