JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
Yes, I try to avoid charismatic meetings as you would the plague! I had many years of bad experiences within those places. Good to be free of it now, thank the Lord!
My son has been invited to an Anglican service by a friend....
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JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
I appreciate your prayers and advice, thank you!
Personally no I wouldn't let either of my children go there with a friend, but my kids are both relativey young. Even still, I'm very particular about my kids going to church with me and only me, at our congregation and only our congregation, every Sunday. It's not negotionable.
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JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
No, I certainly won't be letting him go without me, not by any means. It's the fact that his friend whom he loves goes there and has invited him to go to one of their services, that is the difficult element for me.
That's certainly understandable. I'm glad that if he does go, you'll be going along with him. You're a good dad.
I understand it's a difficult spot, though personally I have zero trepidation telling my kids that they're to attend worship in our congregation and our congregation only. As a compromise I'd suggest they bring the friend to our church instead. If the friend protests, I'll fully take the blame.
LilyG
Puritan Board Freshman
I just have to mention that your way of writing (esp. with the exclamation points) reminds me of my very sweet dad. :-D
LOL
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
There are still plenty of sound, gospel preaching congregations in the Church of England such as St Ebbe's, Oxford. Most of the CofE is a train-wreck, but there are still a lot of good places within it.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
I telephoned the number of the "LoveChurch" website to ask 2 questions, I was able to speak to one of the pastor/leader/elders?? My first question was
"why can I not find any info on your website about what you believe i.e
a statement of faith?"
I was told that it is because they prefer people to come along and get to know what they are like rather than stating anything particular on the website about beliefs.
My second question was
"what is the view of your church with regard to homosexual marriage?"
I was told that the leaders in their church had been "asked" to not comment on that particular issue as it was so divisive!
He did sound uncomfortable that I'd asked the question, in my opinion!
He added that at their church they love and welcome everybody, he also made a point of telling me that the gospel is preached every week.
All sounds a bit wishy washy to me but I am going to go along with my son and see for myself this Sunday afternoon.
Thank you all here on the forum for your input and I appreciate any prayers for my son and I that you may have or will pray.
Expect an update on Sunday evening!
"why can I not find any info on your website about what you believe i.e
a statement of faith?"
I was told that it is because they prefer people to come along and get to know what they are like rather than stating anything particular on the website about beliefs.
My second question was
"what is the view of your church with regard to homosexual marriage?"
I was told that the leaders in their church had been "asked" to not comment on that particular issue as it was so divisive!
He did sound uncomfortable that I'd asked the question, in my opinion!
He added that at their church they love and welcome everybody, he also made a point of telling me that the gospel is preached every week.
All sounds a bit wishy washy to me but I am going to go along with my son and see for myself this Sunday afternoon.
Thank you all here on the forum for your input and I appreciate any prayers for my son and I that you may have or will pray.
Expect an update on Sunday evening!
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
I shall let you know if I experience a "train wreck" or hear the gospel proclaimed.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
I've never thought about it before!
Many thanks!!
Worse case scenario, you can still use it as a learning opportunity afterwards about different churches, doctrine, etc.
I don't wish to derail the thread, but I struggle to see how a Roman Catholic mass, with all the blasphemy that it entails, can serve as any replacement for Lord's Day worship. Nor can I understand how it is better than charismatic worship. I would avoid a mass like the plague.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
I've noticed a lot of similarities between the Roman Catholics and Charismatics
for example consider the following:
Catholics claim to have visions of angels and Mary.
Charismatics claim to have visions of angels and Jesus (never Mary)
Catholics adore many saints - Anthony, Peter, Joseph etc...
Charismatics adore many preachers - Hinn, Ostein, Cerullo etc...
Catholics have relics such as wood from the cross, Mary's hair and visit "holy" sites.
Charismatics have wood from stages where so called "great annointings" took place and visit the graves of their favourite preachers etc...
Does anyone else agree on these points?
I personally saw all the above mentioned things take place when I was involved in the Charismatic movement.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
That's right. Pentecostalism is basically Romanism made over.
Their ministers bless objects in order to infuse miraculous power in them. Ever heard of a "prayer cloth?" Consider also their use of anointing oils.
Both groups are very synergistic in their view of justification, and hold that men can be truly saved and then fall away.
Both groups have a strong emphasis on continuing revelation through dreams and visions, as you said. Also, in both groups, the continuing revelation tends to take the place of the Scriptures.
Neither group holds to a Scripturally regulated form of worship. Whatever extra-biblical revelation dictates is what they follow. So, there's no problem with drama in worship, making up holy days, etc.
Roman Catholicism may be more highbrow, but the two are very similar. It's no wonder that Pentecostalism has caught on among Latin Americans to the extent that it has. It won't surprise me when Pentecostal leaders begin to push for reunification with Rome. Rome, for their part, has already made concessions to the charismatic movement.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks for the reply, the things you say are very interesting indeed. They are so very similar in content and behaviour, the more I think about it the more obvious it becomes! And yes, I had heard of prayer cloths, a certain televangelist that I had the displeasure of being exposed to sells them for a "love gift" of $50 or more.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
That is something to be truly grateful for!
Thank you for your prayers.
Cedarbay
Puritan Board Freshman
After reading what the pastor told you about statement of faith, etc., I have major reservations about you going at all. His aloofness could mean it is cult-like and they hope to nab a person over time. A single exposure for your son, if he is with a friend and even with your presence with him, could pose a huge problem for you. I would face your son's disappoint and decline the invitation for good. This mother's heart feels very protective of you and your son today.
I second this. Though the fact that you will be going with him for discrnment purposes does make the whole situation much more palatable, the safest play here is to decline the invitation entirely. The Christian walk, as we all know, is comprised of self denial and mortification. Dissapointing friends is just the tip of the iceberg. We're to live for His glory.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
And it could just mean they don't want to have to deal with persecution.
Or they are theologically wishy washey and don't even know what they profess to believe. When discerning other churches all we have to go on is profession and fruit.
Cedarbay
Puritan Board Freshman
What would that indicate to you then?
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Is it not possible to attend some mid-week prayer meeting or Bible study in order to get a feel for the kind of church it is? It just seems to me to be a bit of a shame to risk wasting a perfectly good Sunday morning when you could be joyfully worshipping at your own church.
This is also a very good point. You do, in my opinion, owe it to your own congregation to worship there whenever possible in my humble opinion. Also you don't want to waste a whole Sunday's worship, fellowship, hearing the Word etc
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks for all the responses and the concern shown!
We won't be missing our own fellowship meeting as the invite is for 4pm as that is when this particular place has a youth service.
I have decided to go this once and observe carefully what goes on, my wife will be with us too so my son will be protected on both the left and the right.
I'll let you know how it went.
We won't be missing our own fellowship meeting as the invite is for 4pm as that is when this particular place has a youth service.
I have decided to go this once and observe carefully what goes on, my wife will be with us too so my son will be protected on both the left and the right.
I'll let you know how it went.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Well, they don't have a Bill of Rights over there, and militant homosexuals run rampant in Europe with the government forces generally backing them.
As for them being cult like, I suppose one could say they are more willing to try to get folks in to here the message than they are in trying to keep sinners out.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
We do have a "Bill Of Rights" which was given Royal assent by King William III in 1689 and it is still quite frequently used in legal matters. And not forgetting our "Magna Carta" of 1215 which although it has very little power legally is still very dear in the hearts of many English folk as a turning point in our liberty as it was the first attempt to limit the powers of Royalty.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Is that why I keep reading about street preachers being arrested for presenting the whole of the gospel?
As for the Magna Carta - it was about transferring power from the crown to the Barons, not to the people.
A "Bill of Rights" that is given is in no way shape or form comparable to the American Bill of Rights. We took ours.
JoeFish
Puritan Board Freshman
Well, here we are safe and sound, we survived the meeting and the Lord certainly brought something positive out of it for us.
The meeting itself was a charismatic rock concert type of thing, flashing lights, average band, smoke machine, doughnuts, cold pizza and Coca Cola. So not even remotely anything like a Church meeting, although I'm sure that many would disagree with me on that point.
It made my wife and I grateful that we have been freed from the charismatic movement.
Most importantly all my concerns as a father were laid to rest with regard to my son. He met his friend there who interestingly enough looked as if he could care less about the meeting himself, they sat together whilst my wife and I sat on the outside edge with a direct view of my son.
I had said to him before hand that he was not to feel pressured by anyone or anything to pray, sing or say anything he was not comfortable with and under no circumstances was he to let anyone "pray" for him.
There was lots of singing/shouting and people cheering and whooping, we didn't even see a Bible anywhere in the place.
I won't go into more detail about the actual event as it will prove to be tedious, suffice to say that it was no different to any another charismatic meeting I have ever seen before.
Back to my son - I watched him like a hawk from the edge of the hall and he generally looked bemused and amused by what he was seeing and hearing, bear in mind he has never been exposed to anything remotely charismatic before.
Upon leaving I asked him what he thought and was glad to hear him say "it's weird Dad", I asked if he would want to go along again and was met with a resounding "no thanks", he asked why people were doing "aeroplane arms" which made me laugh as I'd not heard it referred to like that before.
So all in all I am glad we went along as he now knows what all the fuss was about and has a good idea of the errors involved in charismania.
I'm sure that some of the Lord's people were in that crowd and hopefully one day He will set them free from the madness of it all as He has my wife and I.
The meeting itself was a charismatic rock concert type of thing, flashing lights, average band, smoke machine, doughnuts, cold pizza and Coca Cola. So not even remotely anything like a Church meeting, although I'm sure that many would disagree with me on that point.
It made my wife and I grateful that we have been freed from the charismatic movement.
Most importantly all my concerns as a father were laid to rest with regard to my son. He met his friend there who interestingly enough looked as if he could care less about the meeting himself, they sat together whilst my wife and I sat on the outside edge with a direct view of my son.
I had said to him before hand that he was not to feel pressured by anyone or anything to pray, sing or say anything he was not comfortable with and under no circumstances was he to let anyone "pray" for him.
There was lots of singing/shouting and people cheering and whooping, we didn't even see a Bible anywhere in the place.
I won't go into more detail about the actual event as it will prove to be tedious, suffice to say that it was no different to any another charismatic meeting I have ever seen before.
Back to my son - I watched him like a hawk from the edge of the hall and he generally looked bemused and amused by what he was seeing and hearing, bear in mind he has never been exposed to anything remotely charismatic before.
Upon leaving I asked him what he thought and was glad to hear him say "it's weird Dad", I asked if he would want to go along again and was met with a resounding "no thanks", he asked why people were doing "aeroplane arms" which made me laugh as I'd not heard it referred to like that before.
So all in all I am glad we went along as he now knows what all the fuss was about and has a good idea of the errors involved in charismania.
I'm sure that some of the Lord's people were in that crowd and hopefully one day He will set them free from the madness of it all as He has my wife and I.
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