Old Man Growing Corrupt

[Theogenes]

Hi everyone!
I would like your comments on Paul's statement in Eph.4:22, where he says that the "old man "grows corrupt" according to the deceitful lusts". Is our old, Adamic, sinful nature growing corrupt even as our new man, our new nature is growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ?? Does this explain why so many saints' biographies reveal an increasing understanding of the depth of their depravity and why sometimes mature saints fall into heinous sins?? These are some of the conclusions I have come to.
Your thoughts/comments are appreciated.
Jim

 

[BobVigneault]

I don't think we grow more corrupt. How can something that is utterly ruined grow more ruined? As we mature we become more aware, by the light of the Word and the revelation of the Spirit, that we have fallen short of God's glory. We become increasingly aware of how fallen and depraved we are. Before we were regenerated we saw no need for God's mercy or salvation because we declared ourselves good. Sanctification is the process of realizing that apart from Christ we can do nothing and learning to depend on him. Physically we eventually begin to groan for our new and heavenly body.

Mature saints fall into sin because we forget that we are still ruined sinners saved by grace and that nothing good is in us. We sometimes, unconciously. develope the attitude that "Wow, I'm doing great in my sanctification. I fast twice a week and give my money to the poor, God is sure lucky to have me." Scripture is proven true that "pride goes before the fall'. Our spiritual pride and blessings misused become a curse when they blind us to the wretchedness of our old nature.

 

[Theogenes]

Thanks Bob!
However, what does Paul mean then by saying that our old man "grows corrupt"??
Jim

 

[BobVigneault]

Jim, what translation are you using. I'm just not seeing 'growing corrupt'.

to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, ESV

22to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, NKJV

22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; KJV

22that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, NASV

The NASV comes the closest to what you are saying however I believe that it's speaking of a corruption that is perpetual. It is now and is continuing as a result of our lusts that corrupt our nature.

[Edited on 6-8-2006 by BobVigneault]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

World English Bible (WEB): Eph 4:22 that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man, that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit;

 

[Puritanhead]

Conclusions you have come to? I am little perplexed by your conclusions. I don't know that gaining a greater understanding of man's depravity is to be equated with a penchant for falling into heinous sins... We're supposed to progress in sanctification, right? And we have the power to do so with the Holy Spirit's enabling.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Here are some Puritan comments on Ephesians 4.22 (KJV translation):

Eph 4.22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Matthew Poole:

Eph 4:22. That ye put off; a usual metaphor, taken from garments (implying a total abandoning, and casting away, like a garment not to be put on again) it is opposed to putting on, Eph 4:24, and is the same as mortifying, Col 3:5, crucifying, Gal 6:14. Concerning the former conversation; the former heathenish life and manners, Eph 2:2. He shows how they should put off their old man, viz. by relinquishing their old manners; the same as putting off the old man with his deeds, Col 3:9. The old man; the pravity of nature, or nature as depraved. Which is corrupt; or, which corrupteth, i.e. tends to destruction, Gal 6:8; or, which daily grows worse and more corrupt by the fulfilling of its lusts. According to the deceitful lusts; i.e. which draw away and entice men, James 1:14; or which put on a show and semblance of some good, or promise pleasure and happiness, but lurch men's hopes, and make them more miserable.

Thomas Boston:

They are destitute of the new nature. It is by regeneration the new man is framed; in the unregenerate is the old man alone, which is corrupt with his deeds, Eph 4:22. Since then the tree is not good, how can the fruit be good? If the new nature is totally wanting, how can there be the actions, life, and conversation of the new frame?

Jonathan Edwards:

And it appears, that man's nature, as in his native state, is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and of its own motion exerts itself in nothing but wicked deeds. For thus the Scripture characterizes the old man, which is put off, when men are renewed in the spirit of their minds, and put on the new man. (Eph 4:22-24; Col 3:8-10) In a word, it appears, that man's nature, as in its native state, is a body of sin, which must be destroyed, must die, be buried, and never rise more. For thus the old man is represented, which is crucified, when men are the subjects of a spiritual resurrection. Rom 6:4-6. Such a nature, such a body of sin as this, is put off in the spiritual renovation, wherein we put on the new man, and are the subjects of the spiritual circumcision. Eph 4:21-23.

Matthew Henry:

Another branch of the general exhortation follows in those words, That you put off, concerning the former conversation, the old man, etc., Eph 4:22-24. "This is a great part of the doctrine which has been taught you, and which you have learned." Here the apostle expresses himself in metaphors taken from garments. The principles, habits, and dispositions of the soul must be changed, before there can be a saving change of the life. There must be sanctification, which consists of these two things:"”(1.) The old man must be put off. The corrupt nature is called a man, because, like the human body, it consists of divers parts, mutually supporting and strengthening one another. It is the old man, as old Adam, from whom we derive it. It is bred in the bone, and we brought it into the world with us. It is subtle as the old man; but in all God's saints decaying and withering as an old man, and ready to pass away. It is said to be corrupt; for sin in the soul is the corruption of its faculties: and, where it is not mortified, it grows daily worse and worse, and so tends to destruction. According to the deceitful lusts. Sinful inclinations and desires are deceitful lusts: they promise men happiness, but render them more miserable, and if not subdued and mortified betray them into destruction. These therefore must be put off as an old garment that we should be ashamed to be seen in: they must be subdued and mortified. These lusts prevailed against them in their former conversation, that is, during their state of unregeneracy and heathenism. (2.) The new man must be put on. It is not enough to shake off corrupt principles, but we must be actuated by gracious ones. We must embrace them, espouse them, and get them written on our hearts: it is not enough to cease to do evil, but we must learn to do well. "Be renewed in the spirit of your mind (Eph 4:23); that is, use the proper and prescribed means in order to have the mind, which is a spirit, renewed more and more." And that you put on the new man, Eph 4:24. By the new man is meant the new nature, the new creature, which is actuated by a new principle, even regenerating grace, enabling a man to lead a new life, that life of righteousness and holiness which Christianity requires. This new man is created, or produced out of confusion and emptiness, by God's almighty power, whose workmanship it is, truly excellent and beautiful. After God, in imitation of him, and in conformity to that grand exemplar and pattern. The loss of God's image upon the soul was both the sinfulness and misery of man's fallen state; and that resemblance which it bears to God is the beauty, the glory, and the happiness, of the new creature. In righteousness towards men, including all the duties of the second table; and in holiness towards God, signifying a sincere obedience to the commands of the first table; true holiness in opposition to the outward and ceremonial holiness of the Jews. We are said to put on this new man when, in the use of all God's appointed means, we are endeavouring after this divine nature, this new creature. This is the more general exhortation to purity and holiness of heart and life.

Thomas Manton:

There is a putting off before there can be a putting on: Eph 4:22-24, "We put off the old man, which is corrupt by its deceitful lusts." We begin the work of sanctification with mortification in the first place, and then proceed to the positive duties of a new life; for the plants of righteousness will not thrive in an impenitent and unmortified heart. As the corruption of sin is driven out and expelled, so the divine nature succeedeth. Intus existens prohibet alienum, these things are not consistent, cannot be joined together. The corruption that is in the world and the divine nature can no more agree than darkness and light, Rom 13:12.

George Swinnock:

Except a man be inwardly and really altered from what he was, except he becomes a new creature: "Put off the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness," Eph 4:22-24.

Richard Sibbes:

And because corruption is natural to us, therefore, 1, We delight in it; whence it comes to pass, that our souls are carried along in an easy current, to the committing of any sin without opposition. 2. Because it is natural, therefore it is unwearied and restless, as light bodies are not wearied in their motion upwards, nor heavy bodies in their motion downwards, nor a stream in its running to the sea, because it is natural: hence it is that the "old man," Eph 4:22, is never tired in the "works of the flesh," Gal 5:19, nor never drawn dry. When men cannot act sin, yet they will love sin, and act it over again by pleasing thoughts of it, and by sinful speculations suck out the delight of sin; and are grieved, not for their sin, but because they want strength and opportunity to commit it; if sin would not leave them, they would never leave sin. This corruption of our nature is not wrought in us by reason and persuasions, for then it might be satisfied with reasons, but it is in us by way of a natural inclination, as iron is carried to the loadstone; and till our natures be altered, no reason will long prevail, but our sinful disposition, as a stream stopped for a little while, will break out with greater violence. 3. Being natural, it needs no help, as the earth needs no tillage to bring forth weeds. When our corrupt nature is carried contrary to that which is good, it is carried of itself, as when Satan lies or murders, it comes from his own cursed nature; and though Satan joineth with our corrupt nature, yet the proneness to sin, and the consent unto it, is of ourselves.

Robert Shaw:

Sanctification extends to the whole man, including all the faculties of the soul, and all the members of the body."”1 Thess 5:23. Our entire nature was originally created in the image of God; by the entrance of sin this image was utterly defaced and lost; hence corrupted and depraved nature is called "the old man," [Eph 4:22] because it infects the whole man, and defiles both soul and body. Now, as original corruption pervades the whole man, so sanctifying grace extends to every part; hence our nature, as renewed after the image of God, is called "the new man," [Eph 4:24] because the holiness communicated in sanctification possesses and ennobles the whole man.

 

[Theogenes]

Bob,
The NKJV that I have says "which grows corrupt". I wonder what any Greek scholars on PB would have to say?
Jim

 

[Theogenes]

[

Originally posted by Puritanhead
Conclusions you have come to? I am little perplexed by your conclusions. I don't know that gaining a greater understanding of man's depravity is to be equated with a penchant for falling into heinous sins... We're supposed to progress in sanctification, right? And we have the power to do so with the Holy Spirit's enabling. ]

Ryan,
Those were two different conclusions. Not the former causing the latter.
Jim

 

[Rich Barcellos]

I recommend John Murray, Principles of Conduct, 211ff. He deals with the Eph. and Col. texts, along with Rom. 6 - the three places the phrase "old man" occurs in the NT.

There are three aorist infinitives in Eph. 4:22-24, "you put off...be renewed...you put on..." Their antecedent, main verb is found in v. 21. I think it's the last one - i.e., "have been taught..."; aorist passive indicative. Lenski takes this view. Lenski, 563, "We should not think that he is calling on the Ephesians to do what these infinitives state. They had learned Christ, they had heard and had been taught "¦, and Paul now states what they had been taught."

Understood this way, Paul is calling on the Ephesians to look back and to remember what they learned, heard, and especially, what they had been taught by Christ when the were converted. The phrase "old man" refers to all they were as lost sinners. The phrase "new man" refers to all they became as saved sinners. Murray says in Murray, Princ. of Conduct, 218, "It is no more feasible to call the believer a new man and an old man, than it is to call him a regenerate man and an unregenerate. The old man is the unregenerate man; the new man is the regenerate man created in Christ Jesus."

Commenting on the phrase "old man" in Rom. 6, Murray says, 219, "The Christian prior to regeneration in his entirety."

Lloyd-Jones adds, Lloyd-Jones, Romans 6, 78, commenting on various statements made by commentators on the phrase "old man" says, "For instance, one says, "Now that we are Christians we have to oppose the old man." What nonsense! You do not have to 'oppose' the old man, because the old man was crucified with Christ. Or take another statement, 'We gradually die to the Old Man.' Again, what nonsense! 'We gradually die to the Old Man.'-the old man who is already dead and who is gone once for ever!
"¦Even the great Abraham Kuyper could actually write this, 'God's child remains the old man's grave-digger until the hour of his own departure!' Abraham Kuyper is trying to dig the grave of one who has already been buried!"

Old man = all we were befoe converted. It refers to what beleivers were.
New man = all we became once converted. It refers to what believers are.