Ordination in the PCA

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Osprey1

Puritan Board Freshman
My wife and I are in a season of caring for family with declining health issues. I was most recently before this a youth director at a PCA church. Though, I was not yet under care as I had just started Seminary. The area we are currently in has no Reformed churches and thus we attend a Conservative Methodist church where I volunteer.

I am taking classes online at Westminster but am planning on transferring to the MABS at RTS online. I have passed the Greek courses but failed Hebrew twice (probably partly due to working multiple jobs in a high COL area). If I graduate from the MABS at RTS without having completed Hebrew will I be unable to receive ordination in the PCA?

The ultimate goal is Army Chaplaincy. I will be sure to get the required 72 hours. Any advice?

Edit. The reason I am not currently pursuing the MDiv is for financial reasons. I am taking out loans and actively paying on them throughout the semester. I am trying to make it feasible financially while simultaneously trying not to dodge the necessary requirements and courses necessary for gospel ministry. I just can’t take on more debt than I have to.
 
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It's somewhat dated, but you might find this helpful. Short answer is that it is technically possible under the extraordinary clause, but ordination under that section is highly unusual. I think I've met one man ordained under the extraordinary clause.


From BCO 21-4:

a. An intern applying for ordination shall be required to present a diploma of Bachelor or Master from some approved college or university, and also a diploma of Bachelor or Master from some approved theological seminary or authentic testimonials of having completed a regular course of theological studies, or a certificate of completion of and endorsement from a theological study program as approved by the General Assembly and one of the Presbyteries of the Presbyterian Church in America. No Presbytery shall omit any of these educational requirements except in extraordinary cases, and then only with a three-fourths (3/4) approval of the Presbytery. Whenever a Presbytery shall omit any of these educational requirements, it shall always make a record of the reasons for such omission and the parts omitted. The intern shall also present satisfactory testimonials as to the completion and approval of his internship in the practice of the ministry.

i. The extraordinary clauses should be limited to extraordinary circumstances of the church or proven extraordinary gifts of the man. Presbyteries should exercise diligence and care in the use of these provisions in order that they not prevent the ordination of a candidate for whom there are truly exceptional circumstances, nor ordain (nor receive from other denominations BCO 13-6) a person who is inadequately prepared for the ministry.
 
It's somewhat dated, but you might find this helpful. Short answer is that it is technically possible under the extraordinary clause, but ordination under that section is highly unusual. I think I've met one man ordained under the extraordinary clause.


From BCO 21-4:

a. An intern applying for ordination shall be required to present a diploma of Bachelor or Master from some approved college or university, and also a diploma of Bachelor or Master from some approved theological seminary or authentic testimonials of having completed a regular course of theological studies, or a certificate of completion of and endorsement from a theological study program as approved by the General Assembly and one of the Presbyteries of the Presbyterian Church in America. No Presbytery shall omit any of these educational requirements except in extraordinary cases, and then only with a three-fourths (3/4) approval of the Presbytery. Whenever a Presbytery shall omit any of these educational requirements, it shall always make a record of the reasons for such omission and the parts omitted. The intern shall also present satisfactory testimonials as to the completion and approval of his internship in the practice of the ministry.

i. The extraordinary clauses should be limited to extraordinary circumstances of the church or proven extraordinary gifts of the man. Presbyteries should exercise diligence and care in the use of these provisions in order that they not prevent the ordination of a candidate for whom there are truly exceptional circumstances, nor ordain (nor receive from other denominations BCO 13-6) a person who is inadequately prepared for the ministry.
Thank you for your response. Certainly something to think about…
 
My wife and I are in a season of caring for family with declining health issues. I was most recently before this a youth director at a PCA church. Though, I was not yet under care as I had just started Seminary. The area we are currently in has no Reformed churches and thus we attend a Conservative Methodist church where I volunteer.

I am taking classes online at Westminster but am planning on transferring to the MABS at RTS online. I have passed the Greek courses but failed Hebrew twice (probably partly due to working multiple jobs in a high COL area). If I graduate from the MABS at RTS without having completed Hebrew will I be unable to receive ordination in the PCA?

The ultimate goal is Army Chaplaincy. I will be sure to get the required 72 hours. Any advice?

Edit. The reason I am not currently pursuing the MDiv is for financial reasons. I am taking out loans and actively paying on them throughout the semester. I am trying to make it feasible financially while simultaneously trying not to dodge the necessary requirements and courses necessary for gospel ministry. I just can’t take on more debt than I have to.


In light of the advice you've received about PCA ordination rules, you may want to look at some of the other denominations in NAPARC that use their chaplain endorsing services.

It may be possible to remain in the NAPARC family and seek chaplaincy through a different NAPARC denomination.

Outside NAPARC, finding a denomination willing to take a Reformed man who doesn't have an M.Div. but has a different masters degree, or a seminary that doesn't require Hebrew, won't be that hard.

I have some pretty strong feelings on making Hebrew and Greek requirements for ordination, knowing that the large majority of ministers forget whatever they once knew of those languages soon after seminary, but I know there are people here who will strongly defend the value of the original languages in the pulpit so I don't want to make that argument. I think the value of requiring Hebrew for Army chaplaincy is, at best, debatable. Encouraging Hebrew study? Surely. Requiring it as an absolute mandate for chaplaincy? It won't be hard to find Army chaplains who don't have that education.
 
Good point. I’ll look into some more.

Also, you’re right in pointing that out. Not something I had thought of regarding Chaplains and the languages. Thanks for the advice!
 
Good point. I’ll look into some more.

Also, you’re right in pointing that out. Not something I had thought of regarding Chaplains and the languages. Thanks for the advice!


Glad to help. If I understand correctly, you are now in Americus, Georgia. I know nothing about what NAPARC options are near you (though I could look at a NAPARC church map and would encourage you to do that if you haven't. However, since you'll primarily have to be dealing with presbyteries if you're seeking to come under care of a denomination with the plan to go into the chaplaincy, and you are in the South where the main NAPARC denominational presence other than the PCA is the ARP, I'd look at the ARP's ordination requirements first.

I know several retired ARP chaplains, one of them here in the Ozarks though in Arkansas, not Missouri. But you may have better connections through seminary.

Sometimes the official written rules you can find online matter less than how they get interpreted, so if it looks like there's a dead end for you with what you find online for ordination requirements, check with chaplains. Another factor: The ARP seminary, Erskine, has an option for an entirely online program. One of my former church members is a student in it and will soon graduate. The professors include a chaplain who is a retired colonel and at least one who (the last I knew) was in the Reserves, and they traditionally have quite a few active-duty chaplains who use the Erskine Seminary program, not because of ARP ties, but because of the ability to do the program entirely online and the program being perceived as chaplain-friendly.

This isn't in any way promoting Erskine Seminary over Westminster or RTS, but suggesting a chaplain-friendly seminary option that might not ordinary cross your radar screen. Let me know if you'd like some referrals.
 
My wife and I are in a season of caring for family with declining health issues. I was most recently before this a youth director at a PCA church. Though, I was not yet under care as I had just started Seminary. The area we are currently in has no Reformed churches and thus we attend a Conservative Methodist church where I volunteer.

I am taking classes online at Westminster but am planning on transferring to the MABS at RTS online. I have passed the Greek courses but failed Hebrew twice (probably partly due to working multiple jobs in a high COL area). If I graduate from the MABS at RTS without having completed Hebrew will I be unable to receive ordination in the PCA?

The ultimate goal is Army Chaplaincy. I will be sure to get the required 72 hours. Any advice?

Edit. The reason I am not currently pursuing the MDiv is for financial reasons. I am taking out loans and actively paying on them throughout the semester. I am trying to make it feasible financially while simultaneously trying not to dodge the necessary requirements and courses necessary for gospel ministry. I just can’t take on more debt than I have to.
Frankly, I'm more horrified by the fact that the RTS MA in Biblical Studies only requires you to study Greek or Hebrew than I am about ordaining a pastor without the languages. It's supposed to be a Master's degree! Rant over.

It is fascinating to compare the addresses given at the founding of their respective seminaries by Gresham Machen (Westminster) and Martyn Lloyd Jones (London Theological Seminary). Machen gave an impassioned defense of the need for an educated ministry, focusing on the foundations of Biblical languages and Apologetics. Lloyd Jones, who was obviously familiar with Machen's words and is responding to them, completely downplays the need for languages, pointing out that God has greatly used men like Spurgeon and Bunyan who had neither Greek nor Hebrew. For Lloyd-Jones, church history was a much more necessary field of study, especially the history of revivals. Lloyd Jones also emphasized the need for the teachers to be men with pastoral experience, which would have ruled out several of the founding faculty at WTS (Incidentally, this demonstrates that great men create seminaries in their own image, with their own respective strengths and weaknesses. Lloyd Jones himself was largely self-taught; I don't know for sure, but I suspect his Hebrew was probably patchy at best). The answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. A solid grasp of Greek and Hebrew lays a great foundation for ministry and adds a proper confidence to the exposition of God's Word. In general, I also think it is better if most of your faculty have some pastoral experience (though there are gifted teachers who haven't), and in that regard the present faculty at WTS is distinctly stronger than at times in the past.

To your specific question, there are certainly PCA presbyteries where you could get ordained with an MABS without Hebrew and others there you would be unlikely to be considered. Age could be a factor: in my experience, a 24 year old in your situation might be matched up with a mentor to help them progress in their Hebrew to the point where they wouldn't be an exception, whereas a 55 year old might have that requirement waived, provided they preached a competant sermon from the Old Testament. I would reach out to the chair of the Candidates and Credntials committee of the relevant Presbytery for guidance. The fact that you presently seem to have no connection with a PCA church (even though you had in the past) might be as big of a problem. Why would they ordain someone they don't really know? If I were in your shoes, I'd put some effort into building that connection with the nearest PCA church, even if it is too far to attend every Sunday. Or perhaps maintaining and strengthening links with your former church might be the way to go? Are you still a member there? In most cases, you can't even come under care without being a member of the denomination. If you are a member, come under care as soon as you can and ask for their guidance. The same goes for any other body you might decide to seek ordination with. Strengthening your ecclesiastical ties might be more relevant to your goals than excelling in Hebrew right now. After all, if you are going to ask a presbytery to do something that is exceptional, it makes sense that they would want to know who you are.
 
Thank you for the comment. The closest NAPARC church that I see is a little over an hour away from my current address. I am very interested in the ARP. Large in part to its southern culture & im not sure of my stance on female deacons but am not principally opposed.

I had heard mixed things about Erskine? Would you recommend it?

I would love any referrals / contacts you may have. Thank you!
 
Thank you for the comment. The closest NAPARC church that I see is a little over an hour away from my current address. I am very interested in the ARP. Large in part to its southern culture & im not sure of my stance on female deacons but am not principally opposed.

I had heard mixed things about Erskine? Would you recommend it?

I would love any referrals / contacts you may have. Thank you!
Hi there. I suggest you DM me and we can talk in a more personal fashion.
 
Hi there. I suggest you DM me and we can talk in a more personal fashion.
Thank you for the comment. The closest NAPARC church that I see is a little over an hour away from my current address. I am very interested in the ARP. Large in part to its southern culture & im not sure of my stance on female deacons but am not principally opposed.

I had heard mixed things about Erskine? Would you recommend it?

I would love any referrals / contacts you may have. Thank you!

Osprey, please take Dr. Duguid up on his offer to speak with you. A firsthand conversation with a seminary professor could be worth its weight in gold in helping you make your choices.

For Dr. Duguid -- you are absolutely spot-on regarding the difference between J. Gresham Machen and Martyn Lloyd Jones on the value of the original languages, or perhaps better said, the perceived necessity -- I think both of them understood that Greek and Hebrew are valuable but disagreed on whether they are must-haves or good-to-haves.

As a Congregationalist by conviction, it will surprise nobody that I believe this is a local church matter to be decided in consultation with the association of churches, which in practice makes the languages a "good idea," not a mandate, since candidates for the ministry will be able to find a church and association that shares their views. But as Martyn Lloyd-Jones also understood, the Puritans REALLY emphasized the value of the original languages while not making them an absolute mandate -- though as the founders of Harvard and Yale, they certainly came close to mandating the languages at some points in New England Congregational history though they had no power to force it, only to make life difficult for associations of Congregational churches that had lower-than-recommended ordination requirements. I personally think that is a good balance: encourage the languages, and encourage formal acaedemic training. but recognize that adding to the biblical standards of I Timothy and Titus is a bad idea so recommendations are helpful but requirements are unhelpful. Of course, Presbyterians will have a different approach, and should.

I also need to note that I am not so much "endorsing" Erskine as saying it may be an option if other options are not. I'm pretty sure the Erskine professors themselves would say that WTS and RTS have a much stronger reputation academically than they do, and the two main advantages of Erskine that would make it a first choice, not an option if others aren't options, are 1) the ability to be an online option and 2) Erkine's role for ARP seminarians as the ARP seminary. That's not a minor factor. But for historical reasons, large numbers of ARP students go to other seminaries dating back to the era when the denomination had not yet won its battles against liberalism and cleaned up doctrinal problems in the denominational structure. Those battles were won years ago.

As for driving an hour to church -- Osprey, that's nothing in large parts of rural America.

When working outside Cannon Air Force Base in New Mexico, I drove almost two hours to an OPC in New Mexico until it closed, and then then over two hours the other direction to an OPC in Texas. In a part of Iowa with almost no Reformed options, I drove about 40 minutes to an RPCNA. Here in Missouri outside Fort Leonard Wood, before we began Hazelgreen Reformed Chapel, I was driving over an hour to Springfield to a church that began as a URC, then went independent, joined the ARP, and just last year transferred into the OPC.

I realize you have issues of caring for relatives (elderly parents, if I'm reading this right) and that may limit your ability to travel. I have a 95-year-old mother-in-law living with us who speaks no English. I get it. That may make regular travel impossible but you really DO need to become a member of a Reformed church unless your conservative Methodist church is one a tiny number of Calvinistic Methodist churches that think Whitefield rather than Wesley was right. If so, that's a whole different ball game.
 
Hello,

I believe we are the closest ARP church to you if I see your location correctly. If you are interested to learn more about the ARP church and meet some folks, we have an upcoming presbytery meeting March 6 and 7 at my church in Senoia, GA. Public worship service on Friday afternoon and meeting on Saturday—you could come for just one of the two days if able. Feel free to PM me for more details. I'll be attending and involved.
 
you are now in Americus, Georgia. I know nothing about what NAPARC options are near you
There isn't much around Americus except peanuts (and maybe some pecans), some Jimmy Carter stuff, and an infamous Confederate POW camp. There used to be a state highway with the last river ferry crossing in Georgia (two cars or one truck) but that shut down in 1988. PCA is the only NAPARC in that part of the world, and they are pretty sparse.
 
It is a Presbytery decision to invoke the Extraordinary clause and typically is only applied to persons who have served in other denominations as Pastors or, in some cases, as Elders for a long time.

It is not normally used as a way to help someone save money or time in the process of seeking ordination.

One thing you could consider is finding a PCA Church that offers an internship program where they will pay for the person to learn/teach/grow while part of the local congregation. That would involve moving, but it is a path you could consider.
 
S
There isn't much around Americus except peanuts (and maybe some pecans), some Jimmy Carter stuff, and an infamous Confederate POW camp. There used to be a state highway with the last river ferry crossing in Georgia (two cars or one truck) but that shut down in 1988. PCA is the only NAPARC in that part of the world, and they are pretty sparse.
Seems like you know the area quite well!
 
Used to live about 90 miles south of there. Weekends either drive around the area, or go across the state line to the mall in Tallahassee.
 
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