Pirates of the Caribbean

[Scott]

Watched POC last night and thought I would share my thoughts. The main moral message of Pirates of the Caribbean is that individualism and non-conformity to authority are good. The movie incarnates these ideals by pitting lawful authorities against pirates. The main character starts out as law-abiding but becomes a pirate. This change is his redemption.

The main character is Will Turner (Orlando Bloom), a blacksmith. In the beginning of the movie, Will hates pirates. He even spends 3 hours a day practicing sword fighting so that he can kills pirates when he finds them.

Will later learns that his estranged father (from whom he had been separated since a child) was actually a pirate, Bootstrap Bill. Will initially engages in denial but eventually comes to accept the truth.

Will's romantic interest, Elizabeth, is captured by pirates. The lawful authories (British naval officers) do not do anything about it. So, Will takes matters into his own hands. He teams up with the pirate Jack Sparrow and starts doing things that pirates do, like stealing a ship. At one point Jack mentions all the acts of piracy Will has committed, suggesting that Will was becoming a pirate.

In the end, Will uses one of the phrases repeated in the movie "X [Jack Sparrow, Will's father, whoever] is a pirate. And a good man." He has totally changed from the beginning. Further, the British officer chides Elizabeth for wanting to marry a blacksmith (Will). She responds that he is not a blacksmith. He is a pirate."

So Will has become what at the started the movie hating. He has overcome his flaw. He gets the girl and gets away.

Even the British authorities come to understand the wisdom of piracy. They give Captain Jack & Co. go.

[Edited on 3-9-2006 by Scott]

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by Scott
Watched POC last night and thought I would share my thoughts. The main moral message of Pirates of the Caribbean is that individualism and non-conformity to authority are good.

Why do you call this a moral message?

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by Scott
The main moral message of Pirates of the Caribbean is that individualism and non-conformity to authority are good.

Good message.
:bigsmile:

 

[Scott]

"Why do you call this a moral message?"

It violates the Fifth Commandment. Perhaps "immoral message" would have been more accurate. Anyway, I mean the moral of the story. The message of the story is atrocious, but common in our day. In movies individualism dominates. It is rare to see commitment to authority.

[Edited on 3-9-2006 by Scott]

 

[Anton Bruckner]

Originally posted by Puritanhead

Originally posted by Scott
The main moral message of Pirates of the Caribbean is that individualism and non-conformity to authority are good.

Good message.
:bigsmile:

yep. that woman is who caused the whole fiasco, falsely pretending she was somebody who she wasn't, thus getting kidnapped, and causing a whole heap of trouble. Helen of Troy.

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by Slippery
:bigsmile:

yep. that woman is who caused the whole fiasco, falsely pretending she was somebody who she wasn't, thus getting kidnapped, and causing a whole heap of trouble. Helen of Troy. [/quote]

Women always cause trouble man!!!!

 

[tcalbrecht]

We were just at Disney World, and the ride was closed.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by Scott
"Why do you call this a moral message?"

It violates the Fifth Commandment. Perhaps "immoral message" would have been more accurate. Anyway, I mean the moral of the story. The message of the story is atrocious, but common in our day. In movies individualism dominates. It is rare to see commitment to authority.

I understand that you believe it to be an immoral message, moral was the right word choice. Something that is moral can encompass both morality and immorality (i.e. good or evil). I was wondering why you found the promotion of individualism to be a moral issue.

 

[Scott]

"I was wondering why you found the promotion of individualism to be a moral issue."

I think it is. The word is vague but I mean it in a sense that includes the throwing off and rejecting the authority of others. This violates the Fifth Commandment (as understood in the expansive sense in the Shorter and Larger Catechisms). We each have duties to those lawfully placed in authority over us. Pirates reject civil authority and take what they want (a line from the movie), rape, pillage, etc. Embracing the pirate life over the life of a lawful citizen is one expression of individualism.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Originally posted by tcalbrecht
We were just at Disney World, and the ride was closed.

Too bad, it's pretty cool.

 

[Scott]

Here are some questions I am going to use with the Youth Group.

(1) What is Will Turner´s (Orlando Bloom´s) view of pirates in the beginning of the movie? What about in the end? What caused these changes?
(2) Did you find yourself rooting for the Orlando Bloom character in the end? How about Jack Sparrow? The British officers?
(3) Was it right for Orlando to help steal a ship in the beginning of the movie?
(4) At the end of the movie, Orlando interfered with Jack Sparrow´s execution. Was this right?
(5) In the end, did Orlando Bloom recognize any law higher than himself?
(6) One phrase we hear in the movie is "œHe is a pirate. And a good man." Is this contradictory?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

That was a cool movie. Very entertaining. That scene were they are figting and skelton/not skeleton effect was amazing.

I hear you Scott about the messages. Many of those themes are common in Hollywood. Pirates is a clean movie at least. I think that it would be a good movie to show teens and ask them those kinds of questions you just asked because it does promote pragmatism and rebellion against authority. Don't forget when you're critiquing Sparrow and Turner for their moral relativism to also impugn the magistrate for their own failings.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Perhaps you are misreading the pirate ethics though. The fault of the evil pirates was not that they were pirates in and of itself, but that they betrayed their rightful captain and put themselves under a curse. It's more of an "honor among theives" problem for the pirates. Being a "good man" was defined by loyalty to code and captain (i.e. Bootstrap Bill). Granted this is just as erronious a worldview as you posed earlier in the thread, but there are some other principles at work here. It's more a competition of worldviews; the evil pirates, the good pirates, and the overly rigid British authority. Being a good pirate wins out in the end and all parties wink at that consession. Of course the final message is to "be who you are" just like Will, who couldn't escape being the good pirate he was born to be. Yada yada yada...


[Edited on 3-10-2006 by puritansailor]

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Patrick,

You know you loved that movie.

Ah, the fresh sea air, the scurvy, Admirals with big hats, and chasing after Pirates. Port, starboard, deck, overheard, bulkhead, all ahead full!

Ah, to be in the Navy of yesteryear...

You probably have a big poster of Horatio Hornblower in your house.

ANCHORS AWEIGH!!

[Edited on 3-10-2006 by SemperFideles]

 

[Philip A]

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Ah, to be in the Navy of yesteryear...

I am told that the Navy of yesteryear had boats, of all things.

Sheesh!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

...and big wooden ships with deck hands enlisted by force (men who passed out in bars might find themselves aboard a ship as a new deck hand when they came to).

 

[Philip A]

It's still better than working for the Air Force.

When the Air Force wants a new toy, they write a contract. When the Navy wants a new toy, at least sometimes, they make it for themselves (and then the Air Force buys it too)!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

If it was a movie about the Air Force it would be called Desks of the Carribean

My father was a career Officer in the Air Force. He warned me that if I joined the Marine Corps I'd probably never see a rank higher than LtCol (he's probably right ). He also said that, of the services, the Marine Corps has the most difficulty transitioning to civilian life while the Air Force finds it easiest. Duh Dad, they're civilians already!

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Patrick,

You know you loved that movie.

Ah, the fresh sea air, the scurvy, Admirals with big hats, and chasing after Pirates. Port, starboard, deck, overheard, bulkhead, all ahead full!

Ah, to be in the Navy of yesteryear...

You probably have a big poster of Horatio Hornblower in your house.

ANCHORS AWEIGH!!

Yes I did love that movie! And yes, I have all the Horatia Hornblower movies!


Haven't found a poster yet.....

 

[Semper Fidelis]

My PhD conference leader, Dr. Cann (Capt, USN (ret)) was a war historian that specialized in sea power and small wars. He had a huge Horatio Hornblower picture in our conference room. One day, I brought in my digital camera and took a picture of the poster. I then went downstairs and took a picture of him. I was very coy as to the reasons.

Using Photoshop, I painstakingly matched the size and shadowing of his head to put him in the picture. I went to Kinkos and had a huge blowup of the poster made and hung it right where the old picture was.

We were in seminar a day later and he's talking and suddenly looks over and sees the CANNBLOWER picture. It was priceless!

The tag-line was "Come Watch Johnny Reb of the High Seas"

Dr. Cann is a native Virginian with a very proper Virginian accent. He mocked the use of that term "Johnny Reb" in a short film we had watched about Chancellorsville. From that moment on, whenever we Students (all Field Grade Officers) referred to the South during a discussion we would refer to them as Johnny Reb. That was one of the most fun 10 months of my life.

 

[Scott]

Hornblower is king. I love those movies! I have read a number of the books. They are good, but quite different in terms of ethics. IN the books Hornblower is an ambitious, pragmatic atheist.

 

[Scott]

Perhaps you are misreading the pirate ethics though. The fault of the evil pirates was not that they were pirates in and of itself, but that they betrayed their rightful captain and put themselves under a curse. It's more of an "honor among theives" problem for the pirates. Being a "good man" was defined by loyalty to code and captain (i.e. Bootstrap Bill). Granted this is just as erronious a worldview as you posed earlier in the thread, but there are some other principles at work here. It's more a competition of worldviews; the evil pirates, the good pirates, and the overly rigid British authority. Being a good pirate wins out in the end and all parties wink at that consession. Of course the final message is to "be who you are" just like Will, who couldn't escape being the good pirate he was born to be. Yada yada yada...

Remember, their profession is stealing, raping, and pillaging. It is is a criminal profession and so is inherently immoral. There is a scene in the middle of the show (what I see as the transition phase for Bloom) where Bloom disparages pirates and Depp says something like "You better be careful mate, you are well on your way to becoming a pirate yourself," and then lists several crimes, such as stealing a ship of the line. Nothing about the pirate code.

I never liked the movie at all. The "He is a good man. And a pirate" turned me off from the beginning. It is also too long and I can't stand Johhny Depp. The whole thing seems to me to be a swipe at the 5th Commandment.

Q126: What is the general scope of the fifth commandment?
A126: The general scope of the fifth commandment is, the performance of those duties which we mutually owe in our several relations, as inferiors, superiors, or equals.[1]

Q127: What is the honor that inferiors owe to their superiors.?
A127: The honor which inferiors owe to their superiors is, all due reverence in heart,[1] word,[2] and behavior;[3] prayer and thanksgiving for them;[4] imitation of their virtues and graces;[5] willing obedience to their lawful commands and counsels;[6] due submission to their corrections;[7] fidelity to,[8] defense [9] and maintenance of their persons and authority, according to their several ranks, and the nature of their places;[10] bearing with their infirmities, and covering them in love, that so they may be an honor to them and to their government.[11]

Q128: What are the sins of inferiors against their superiors?
A128: The sins of inferiors against their superiors are, all neglect of the duties required toward them;[1] envying at,[2] contempt of,[3] and rebellion [4] against, their persons [5] and places,[6] in their lawful counsels,[7] commands, and corrections;[8] cursing, mocking,[9] and all such refractory and scandalous carriage, as proves a shame and dishonor to them and their government.[10]

 

[Augusta]

Originally posted by SemperFideles
If it was a movie about the Air Force it would be called Desks of the Carribean

My father was a career Officer in the Air Force. He warned me that if I joined the Marine Corps I'd probably never see a rank higher than LtCol (he's probably right ). He also said that, of the services, the Marine Corps has the most difficulty transitioning to civilian life while the Air Force finds it easiest. Duh Dad, they're civilians already!

Hey, the Airforce is cool. They save the planet all the time by going through the "Top Secret" Stargate. SSsshhhhhhhh.

 

[panta dokimazete]

But the Navy has the Battlestars and the Federation Starships!!


Sorry - the Navy is my customer - I work on the DD(X) Stealth Destroyer Program...among other things...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by Augusta

Originally posted by SemperFideles
If it was a movie about the Air Force it would be called Desks of the Carribean

My father was a career Officer in the Air Force. He warned me that if I joined the Marine Corps I'd probably never see a rank higher than LtCol (he's probably right ). He also said that, of the services, the Marine Corps has the most difficulty transitioning to civilian life while the Air Force finds it easiest. Duh Dad, they're civilians already!

Hey, the Airforce is cool. They save the planet all the time by going through the "Top Secret" Stargate. SSsshhhhhhhh.

Frankly when it comes to suspension of disbelief, convincing people that the Air Force has steely-eyed warriors is harder to believe than some alien Stargate unearthed in Egypt...

 

[satz]

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Originally posted by Augusta

Originally posted by SemperFideles
If it was a movie about the Air Force it would be called Desks of the Carribean

My father was a career Officer in the Air Force. He warned me that if I joined the Marine Corps I'd probably never see a rank higher than LtCol (he's probably right ). He also said that, of the services, the Marine Corps has the most difficulty transitioning to civilian life while the Air Force finds it easiest. Duh Dad, they're civilians already!

Hey, the Airforce is cool. They save the planet all the time by going through the "Top Secret" Stargate. SSsshhhhhhhh.

Frankly when it comes to suspension of disbelief, convincing people that the Air Force has steely-eyed warriors is harder to believe than some alien Stargate unearthed in Egypt...

ouch!

 

[tcalbrecht]

Originally posted by houseparent

Originally posted by tcalbrecht
We were just at Disney World, and the ride was closed.

Too bad, it's pretty cool.

Oh, I know. That's the first ride we head to when we get there. This is the second time we've been there that it's been closed for renovation.