Pope Francis and Homosexuality

[bookslover]

The Pope has now stated that he thinks that the Roman Catholic Church should be open to instituting civil unions for homosexual couples. He is putting the weight of his office behind the idea, although he has not taken any steps (as far as I know) to actually engineer any changes in Canon Law. That may come, though, perhaps depending on the reaction he gets to his now having floated the idea.

 

[ZackF]

The Pope has now stated that he thinks that the Roman Catholic Church should be open to instituting civil unions for homosexual couples. He is putting the weight of his office behind the idea, although he has not taken any steps (as far as I know) to actually engineer any changes in Canon Law. That may come, though, perhaps depending on the reaction he gets to his now having floated the idea.

Do you have a source?

 

[chuckd]

Do you have a source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-francis-civil-unions/2020/10/21/805a601c-139e-11eb-a258-614acf2b906d_story.html

 

[Seeking_Thy_Kingdom]

Do you have a source?

Naturally, be aware of 2A 2CV ( ) violations on these sites. Personally, I am not surprised by this... been waiting for Francis to make this move.

Pope Francis voices support of civil unions for LGBTQ couples in new documentary

VATICAN CITY (RNS) — ‘Homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family,’ the pope said in an interview for the documentary 'Francesco.' Francis also suggested the need for ‘a civil union law,’ in a departure from official church teaching.

religionnews.com

Pope Francis endorsed same-sex civil unions. What does this mean for LGBTQ rights in the US?

LGBT Catholics and advocates have applauded Pope Francis' message, but argue that he could go further in his support of the LGBT community.

www.usatoday.com

Pope Francis Backs Homosexual Civil Unions

Francis defies magisterial teaching in new documentary

www.churchmilitant.com

 

[ZackF]

Thanks for the sources. I want to read/listen to his remarks in Spanish. Though I don’t doubt he supports SS partnerships, the press doesn’t always get papal and Vatican pronouncements correctly especially if translations are required.

This is not a good development for many reasons.
I’d suggest moving this thread to the coffee shop.

 

[Seeking_Thy_Kingdom]

Thanks for the sources. I want to read/listen to his remarks in Spanish. Though I don’t doubt he supports SS partnerships, the press doesn’t always get papal and Vatican pronouncements correctly especially if translations are required.

We will have to wait until the documentary is released, hard to tell when that is since everything is now flooded with the same sex news.

Pope Francis endorsed same-sex civil unions for the first time as pope while being interviewed for the feature-length documentary “Francesco,” which premiered Wednesday at the Rome Film Festival.

 

[retroGRAD3]

Hopefully, this will help people realize it's a false church, but then again, this isn't the first time they have had a crazy Pope.

 

[CasualWestminsterEnjoyer]

Thanks for the sources. I want to read/listen to his remarks in Spanish. Though I don’t doubt he supports SS partnerships, the press doesn’t always get papal and Vatican pronouncements correctly especially if translations are required.

This is not a good development for many reasons.
I’d suggest moving this thread to the coffee shop.

The comments reported in Spanish media are identical. I suspect the original source is in Italian. The documentary that contained the remarks is titled in Italian and debuted in Rome.

 

[ZackF]

The comments reported in Spanish media are identical. I suspect the original source is in Italian. The documentary that contained the remarks is titled in Italian and debuted in Rome.

Right. I had forgotten that Francis was fluent in Italian.

 

[JM]

The Lavender Mafia strikes again! Vigano and Sarah have to be really feeling like outsiders at this point and the Trad Cats are screaming, "we told ya so!" Sedevacantists be lovin' on Pope Frank.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Edward]

be aware of 2A violations on these sites.

Bans on bump stocks and silencers?

 

[Rom]

"The man of sin" from 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

J.A. Wylie wrote:

"The Pope or Vice-Christ is the man of sin. He has invented sin, he has taught sin,
he has enacted sin," established iniquity by a law," he has traded in sin, he sells
indulgences and pardons; he has grown rich through the sins of Christendom. Sin is his
being, and sin is his work. Popery is as purely an incarnation of sin as the Gospel is of
holiness.

Everything that Popery touches it converts into sin. It possesses an accursed
alchemy by which it transmutes what is good into evil. It has taken all the
commandments of the decalogue and converted them into sin. It has taken all the
doctrines of the Gospel and converted them into sin; it had taken all the sacraments of the
Church and converted them into instruments of sin; it has taken all the offices and
officers of the church and made them agents of sin..."

J.A. Wylie, "The Papacy Is The Antichrist A DEMONSTRATION".

 

[Susan777]

The documentary called “Francesco” is really really creepy. Regarding his support for homosexual normalization in the church, the Traditional Catholics are predictably disgusted but most Catholics are thrilled by his words. Viganò stands firm but alone at this point. I wonder what Mark Galli is thinking about his new church. He’s likely on board with it all. So sad.

 

[Seeking_Thy_Kingdom]

Bans on bump stocks and silencers?

Hahaha.... wow, my mind is preoccupied.... I might also be watching the string of gun control cases going through the courts here very closely

 

[arapahoepark]

"The man of sin" from 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

J.A. Wylie wrote:

"The Pope or Vice-Christ is the man of sin. He has invented sin, he has taught sin,
he has enacted sin," established iniquity by a law," he has traded in sin, he sells
indulgences and pardons; he has grown rich through the sins of Christendom. Sin is his
being, and sin is his work. Popery is as purely an incarnation of sin as the Gospel is of
holiness.

Everything that Popery touches it converts into sin. It possesses an accursed
alchemy by which it transmutes what is good into evil. It has taken all the
commandments of the decalogue and converted them into sin. It has taken all the
doctrines of the Gospel and converted them into sin; it had taken all the sacraments of the
Church and converted them into instruments of sin; it has taken all the offices and
officers of the church and made them agents of sin..."

J.A. Wylie, "The Papacy Is The Antichrist A DEMONSTRATION".

If I am wrong about Nero, the Pope is my second choice for antiChrist. Many, as we know, acted the same way.

 

[Seeking_Thy_Kingdom]

I came across someone reviewing the clip and claims it is being wrongly interpreted. Anyone speek Spanish?

Here is the video, the guy is a bit eccentric... skip to 1:30

 

[retroGRAD3]

I came across someone reviewing the clip and claims it is being wrongly interpreted. Anyone speek Spanish?

Here is the video, the guy is a bit eccentric... skip to 1:30

This could also be an attempt to explain it away. Many Roman apologists were in utter horror yesterday as they did their shows.

 

[CasualWestminsterEnjoyer]

I came across someone reviewing the clip and claims it is being wrongly interpreted. Anyone speek Spanish?

Here is the video, the guy is a bit eccentric... skip to 1:30

The friar's gloss of the Spanish, the thing he says right after he pauses the clip, is valid. Francis does say 'convivencia civil', 'civil co-existence'. Whether you accept his interpretation or not is a matter of opinion I suppose. Francis's words do strike me as intentionally vague and not intended to refer clearly and unambiguously to civil unions. I've never heard a civil union referred to as 'convivencia civil'. He is something of a master of this sort of sly ambiguity that gives material to progressives while avoiding exposing himself directly to attacks.

 

[DecafCoffee]

Not really surprised here. PF has been a progressive liberal from day 1. He's been soft on homosexuality years ago when someone asked him on his thoughts on the subject and he said something like, "Who am I to judge?" (well... within Catholic Tradition, you are literally the one person, of all persons, to judge, Mr. Pope!).

 

[Susan777]

His position is really not new. He publicly supported same sex unions back in Argentina. And as Decaf notes, he’s been promoting his version of “Christian ethics” since he assumed the papacy. Interestingly, he quietly dropped the title “Vicar of Christ” several years ago. He’s a sly fox and knows exactly what he’s doing. Following every single one of his egregious pronouncements is a claim that he’s being misinterpreted by the media, that there is a translation issue or that his enemies are trying to discredit him. What I can’t understand is why anyone would swim the Tiber thereby placing himself under his authority. And if they deny his authority then they are not really Catholic in the true sense. The House of Cards is coming down.

 

[retroGRAD3]

His position is really not new. He publicly supported same sex unions back in Argentina. And as Decaf notes, he’s been promoting his version of “Christian ethics” since he assumed the papacy. Interestingly, he quietly dropped the title “Vicar of Christ” several years ago. He’s a sly fox and knows exactly what he’s doing. Following every single one of his egregious pronouncements is a claim that he’s being misinterpreted by the media, that there is a translation issue or that his enemies are trying to discredit him. What I can’t understand is why anyone would swim the Tiber thereby placing himself under his authority. And if they deny his authority then they are not really Catholic in the true sense. The House of Cards is coming down.

Agreed.

 

[B.L.]

What I can’t understand is why anyone would swim the Tiber thereby placing himself under his authority. And if they deny his authority then they are not really Catholic in the true sense. The House of Cards is coming down.

I was actually thinking about this earlier today on my drive home from work. I've read and listened to a number of conversion stories of formerly Reformed believers who made the swim and wonder whether or not a moment of buyer's remorse would hit them this time around. I'm not so sure it will. I think most recognize Francis isn't the first bad pope to come around and really do believe there isn't anything he can do to change the official teachings of the RCC. Now obviously the verdict is still out on that one, but I think most view what Francis said as his personal views and not something spoken infallibly or as an authoritative declaration of what the church should now believe.

The authority the pope has is due to the position not due to the person. It might seem like hair splitting, but it's like being in the military in a sense where you respect the rank on the collar of the commanding officer without necessarily respecting the individual wearing the uniform if that makes sense. I really don't think converts to Rome have an issue submitting themselves to the leadership of the RCC. They have likely bought into the entire package and see the RCC as this ark of stability even if in the immediate moment they have a liberal progressive as pope who doesn't believe the teachings of the church he is the human head of. Who knows maybe I'm wrong...I know if I was a fence sitter contemplating a cold icy swim I would have been deterred once I saw the leadership in Rome celebrating that Pachamama fertility goddess from the Amazon last year. Wow. The J.A. Wylie quote Rom posted above is most fitting indeed.

 

[ZackF]

His position is really not new. He publicly supported same sex unions back in Argentina. And as Decaf notes, he’s been promoting his version of “Christian ethics” since he assumed the papacy. Interestingly, he quietly dropped the title “Vicar of Christ” several years ago. He’s a sly fox and knows exactly what he’s doing. Following every single one of his egregious pronouncements is a claim that he’s being misinterpreted by the media, that there is a translation issue or that his enemies are trying to discredit him. What I can’t understand is why anyone would swim the Tiber thereby placing himself under his authority. And if they deny his authority then they are not really Catholic in the true sense. The House of Cards is coming down.

Most of even the center-right (Catholic or otherwise) has collapsed on this “issue”. Catholic apologist who would have been mortified at this 10 years ago now celebrate it with all of the LGBT talking points to boot about “the right to love” and 2000 years of oppression and so forth. It isn’t even so much about legalities and property...or mere civil liberties. The whole thing is a Motte and Bailey. The sin, per Rome, has been reduced to same sex genital contact. The “objectively disordered” (already moderated from earlier RC teaching) phrasing used in RC catechesis for decades is now mocked on previously conservative catholic message boards. Peruse the forums of Catholic.com and catholic-convert.com. What is there being posted would have been unthinkable 15 years ago when I was still RC and active. When this dropped I rolled by those sites and couldn’t believe my eyes.

 

[ZackF]

I came across someone reviewing the clip and claims it is being wrongly interpreted. Anyone speek Spanish?

Here is the video, the guy is a bit eccentric... skip to 1:30

I‘m only at besT intermediate in Spanish. It seems the priest putting the absolute best spin you could on this. What is Francis meaning by “family” in this context? I think he’s deliberately equivocating. That’s all. I don’t think the English translations were off but I’d defer to Andrew or Ruben of course.

 

[hammondjones]

I don't think he is giving the correct representation of "convivencia civil", from my quick googling that is a common way of speaking of unmarried couples living together, not mere co-existence.

 

[ZackF]

I don't think he is giving the correct representation of "convivencia civil", from my quick googling that is a common way of speaking of unmarried couples living together, not mere co-existence.

Es como “common law?”

 

[CasualWestminsterEnjoyer]

Es como “common law?”

Cohabitation

 

[CasualWestminsterEnjoyer]

The entry in the dictionary of the royal spanish academy (rae) for convivir (verb form of convivencia) is 'Vivir en compañía de otro u otros', 'to live in the company of another or of others'.

 

[ZackF]

Cohabitation

That’s what I thought. That’s why I was confused and probably others.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

If I am wrong about Nero, the Pope is my second choice for antiChrist. Many, as we know, acted the same way.

If you know anything about typology, you should know that you're not wrong about either of them. They are types and shadows of the Antichrist. As such they are antichrists themselves. However, neither are the Antichrist himself. He'll be revealed in time.

P.S. I like what you've done with the capitalization, as I can discern you look to exalting Christ and denouncing Antichrist with it. However, in the interest of following the traditional treatment of proper nouns, I've taken the more traditional route in my response. Still, I trust we are certainly united as brethren in the body of Christ and both seek to exalt Him in all our ways. God bless.