Preaching Against the Sabbath Day?

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ServantOfKing

Puritan Board Freshman
Are there alot of churches claiming to be reformed that would preach against holding to the sabbath day? Is this unique?
 
This is common in "Reformed" Baptist churches that still cling to one form of dispensationalism or other, e.g. NCT.
 
It also depends what you mean by 'holding to the sabbath day'. I know presbyterians who claim to hold the whole of the WCF without exception but their view of the Sabbath is rather low.

JH
 
Originally posted by theologae
This is common in "Reformed" Baptist churches that still cling to one form of dispensationalism or other, e.g. NCT.

:ditto:

What do you say to the Baptist that claims, "Our Sabbath is in Christ, it is fulfilled in Him"? They say, "Jesus is our Sabbath rest."

:book2:
 
Must be pretty ignorant of the Westminster Standards then. Or of the "the WCF means this to me" crowd.
Originally posted by JonathanHunt
It also depends what you mean by 'holding to the sabbath day'. I know presbyterians who claim to hold the whole of the WCF without exception but their view of the Sabbath is rather low.

JH
 
Originally posted by mangum
Originally posted by theologae
This is common in "Reformed" Baptist churches that still cling to one form of dispensationalism or other, e.g. NCT.

:ditto:

What do you say to the Baptist that claims, "Our Sabbath is in Christ, it is fulfilled in Him"? They say, "Jesus is our Sabbath rest."

:book2:

This is the position that I have encountered most frequently. I really don't know what to say. While it is true that we have rest in Christ, it is also true that we are to rest on the Lord's Day. Any thoughts on how to respond to the above claim?
 
"What do you say to the Baptist that claims, 'Our Sabbath is in Christ, it is fulfilled in Him'? They say, 'Jesus is our Sabbath rest.'"

"...in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservent..."

Just a rhetorical point: I guess I can tell my servent that he doesn't need a day off because Jesus is his Sabbath rest.
 
Originally posted by JonathanHunt
It also depends what you mean by 'holding to the sabbath day'. I know presbyterians who claim to hold the whole of the WCF without exception but their view of the Sabbath is rather low.

JH

You're not kidding. One such church in our past features a praise band, lead singers with microphones, "children's church", and no evening worship. The annual Super Bowl party includes an imported big-screen TV and they tell you to bring your lounge chairs. :banghead:
 
Originally posted by ServantOfKing
This is the position that I have encountered most frequently. I really don't know what to say. While it is true that we have rest in Christ, it is also true that we are to rest on the Lord's Day. Any thoughts on how to respond to the above claim?

You could parallel marriage as a type, and the church's union with Christ as a fulfilment of it. Do they still regard marriage as honourable?

Both Marriage and the Sabbath are creation ordinances, Gen. 2. Hence they stand irrespective of the fall and redemption. Only in glory do they find complete fulfilment.
 
Originally posted by Bladestunner316
Why a church preach against the sabbath??

Maybe so they can go to the beach on a Sunday afternoon, or maybe go bowling etc.

Or maybe as a reaction against what they see as extreme legalism - many who were brought up under a strict Sabbath observance have reacted by going to the opposite extreme - legalism, liberty and license - we need to walk the middle road, with a sheer drop on either side.
 
Originally posted by ServantOfKing
Originally posted by mangum
Originally posted by theologae
This is common in "Reformed" Baptist churches that still cling to one form of dispensationalism or other, e.g. NCT.

:ditto:

What do you say to the Baptist that claims, "Our Sabbath is in Christ, it is fulfilled in Him"? They say, "Jesus is our Sabbath rest."

:book2:

This is the position that I have encountered most frequently. I really don't know what to say. While it is true that we have rest in Christ, it is also true that we are to rest on the Lord's Day. Any thoughts on how to respond to the above claim?

Here is a post that I found helpful.
 
"You could parallel marriage as a type, and the church's union with Christ as a fulfilment of it. Do they still regard marriage as honourable?

"Both Marriage and the Sabbath are creation ordinances, Gen. 2. Hence they stand irrespective of the fall and redemption. Only in glory do they find complete fulfilment."

I don't think many say that Sabbath observence is not honorable but rather that it's not obligatory. One could argue that marriage too is not required of everyone.
 
Originally posted by theologae
This is common in "Reformed" Baptist churches that still cling to one form of dispensationalism or other, e.g. NCT.

It doesn't seem very common in my circles. But we don't have the quotes around the word Reformed. And, as you qualified, we don't hold to dispensationalism or NCT.

Walt Chantry, a Reformed Baptist, holds a pretty high view of the Sabbath in his book "Call the Sabbath a Delight".

[Edited on 7-27-2006 by victorbravo]
 
Originally posted by victorbravo

It doesn't seem very common in my circles. But we don't have the quotes around the word Reformed. And, as you qualified, we don't hold to dispensationalism or NCT.

Walt Chantry, a Reformed Baptist, holds a pretty high view of the Sabbath in his book "Call the Sabbath a Delight".

[Edited on 7-27-2006 by victorbravo]

A Confessional Baptist obviously holds to the continuation of the moral law and therefore the continuing validity of the Sabbath rest.

But there are just so many "Refomed" Baptists that are simply predestinarian and (in the words of the Dark Lord Wilson) couldn't locate their confessional hinder parts even if allowed to use both hands. These are the MacArthur types, or Mahaney types. These seem to outnumber simple Confessional Credos.
 
Originally posted by SRoper
One could argue that marriage too is not required of everyone.

It is not the persons about whom, but the objects for which the ordinance exists that determines its regulative import. The Sabbath is set apart in honour of the divine work of creation, and to reveal what the goal of creation is, Gen. 2:1-3; whereas Marriage is ordained for man's assistance, Gen 2:18, 21-24, and therefore might be foreborne if it were deemed unhelpful.
 
Originally posted by jaybird0827
Originally posted by JonathanHunt
It also depends what you mean by 'holding to the sabbath day'. I know presbyterians who claim to hold the whole of the WCF without exception but their view of the Sabbath is rather low.

JH

You're not kidding. One such church in our past features a praise band, lead singers with microphones, "children's church", and no evening worship. The annual Super Bowl party includes an imported big-screen TV and they tell you to bring your lounge chairs. :banghead:

Presbyterians watch football don't they? Hey, they still pray before kickoff and pass the plate around for collections (as long as they aren't bets).

:banana:
 
I am still wainting for absolute definitive proof that the "sabbath" was changed to the first day of the week. If so, what part of the ceremonial part are we to keep? Can we pick up sticks? Can we build a fire? Who decides what is Kosher to do on the sabbath. Not trying to pick a fight brothers as I believe that the Lords day should be held in highest esteem.
I personally believe when we meet on the Lord's day for worship we fullfil the sabbath. I do not, however, believe that Sunday is the sabbath. I will however give a lot of Romans 14 love to my brethren and hope they will do the same for me.:handshake:
 
John calvin on the sabbath:

Institutes of the Christian Religion

By John Calvin


Translated by Henry Beveridge


Volume 2. Chapter 8: Exposition of the Moral Law

Fourth Commandment.

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, &c.

28. The purport of the commandment is, that being dead to our own affections and works, we meditate on the kingdom of God, and in order to such meditation, have recourse to the means which he has appointed. But as this commandment stands in peculiar circumstances apart from the others, the mode of exposition must be somewhat different. Early Christian writers are wont to call it typical, as containing the external observance of a day which was abolished with the other types on the advent of Christ. This is indeed true; but it leaves the half of the matter untouched. Wherefore, we must look deeper for our exposition, and attend to three cases in which it appears to me that the observance of this commandment consists. First, under the rest of the seventh days the divine Lawgiver meant to furnish the people of Israel with a type of the spiritual rest by which believers were to cease from their own works, and allow God to work in them. Secondly he meant that there should be a stated day on which they should assemble to hear the Law, and perform religious rites, or which, at least, they should specially employ in meditating on his works, and be thereby trained to piety. Thirdly, he meant that servants, and those who lived under the authority of others, should be indulged with a day of rest, and thus have some intermission from labour.

29. We are taught in many passages that this adumbration of spiritual rest held a primary place in the Sabbath. Indeed, there is no commandment the observance of which the Almighty more strictly enforces. When he would intimate by the Prophets that religion was entirely subverted, he complains that his sabbaths were polluted, violated, not kept, not hallowed; as if, after it was neglected, there remained nothing in which he could be honoured. The observance of it he eulogises in the highest terms, and hence, among other divine privileges, the faithful set an extraordinary value on the revelation of the Sabbath. In Nehemiah, the Levites, in the public assembly, thus speak: “Thou madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant.” You see the singular honour which it holds among all the precepts of the Law. All this tends to celebrate the dignity of the mystery, which is most admirably expressed by Moses and Ezekiel. Thus in Exodus: “Verily my sabbaths shall ye keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that does sanctify you. Ye shall keep my sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever does any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever,” (Exodus 31:13—17.) Ezekiel is still more full, but the sum of what he says amounts to this: that the sabbath is a sign by which Israel might know that God is their sanctifier. If our sanctification consists in the mortification of our own will, the analogy between the external sign and the thing signified is most appropriate. We must rest entirely, in order that God may work in us; we must resign our own will, yield up our heart, and abandon all the lusts of the flesh. In short, we must desist from all the acts of our own mind, that God working in us, we may rest in him, as the Apostle also teaches. (Heb. 3:13; 4:3,9.)

30. This complete cessation was represented to the Jews by the observance of one day in seven, which, that it might be more religiously attended to, the Lord recommended by his own example. For it is no small incitement to the zeal of man to know that he is engaged in imitating his Creator. Should any one expect some secret meaning in the number seven, this being in Scripture the number for perfection, it may have been selected, not without cause, to denote perpetuity. In accordance with this, Moses concludes his description of the succession of day and night on the same day on which he relates that the Lord rested from his works. Another probable reason for the number may be, that the Lord intended that the Sabbath never should be completed before the arrival of the last day. We here begin our blessed rest in him, and daily make new progress in it; but because we must still wage an incessant warfare with the flesh, it shall not be consummated until the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah: “From one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord,” (Isaiah 66:23); in other words, when God shall be “all in all,” (1 Cor. 15:28). It may seem, therefore, that by the seventh day the Lord delineated to his people the future perfection of his sabbath on the last day, that by continual meditation on the sabbath, they might throughout their whole lives aspire to this perfection.

31. Should these remarks on the number seem to any somewhat far-fetched, I have no objection to their taking it more simply: that the Lord appointed a certain day on which his people might be trained, under the tutelage of the Law, to meditate constantly on the spiritual rest, and fixed upon the seventh, either because he foresaw it would be sufficient, or in order that his own example might operate as a stronger stimulus; or, at least to remind men that the Sabbath was appointed for no other purpose than to render them conformable to their Creator. It is of little consequence which of these be adopted, provided we lose not sight of the principal thing delineated, viz., the mystery of perpetual resting from our works. To the contemplation of this, the Jews were every now and then called by the prophets, lest they should think a carnal cessation from labour sufficient. Beside the passages already quoted, there is the following: “If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord,” (Isaiah 58:13, 14). Still there can be no doubt, that, on the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ, the ceremonial part of the commandment was abolished. He is the truth, at whose presence all the emblems vanish; the body, at the sight of which the shadows disappear. He, I say, is the true completion of the sabbath: “We are buried with him by baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should walk in newness of life,” (Rom. 6:4). Hence, as the Apostle elsewhere says, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holiday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days; which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ,” (Col. 2:16, 17); meaning by body the whole essence of the truth, as is well explained in that passage. This is not contented with one day, but requires the whole course of our lives, until being completely dead to ourselves, we are filled with the life of God. Christians, therefore, should have nothing to do with a superstitious observance of days.

32. The two other cases ought not to be classed with ancient shadows, but are adapted to every age. The sabbath being abrogated, there is still room among us, first, to assemble on stated days for the hearing of the Word, the breaking of the mystical bread, and public prayer; and, secondly, to give our servants and labourers relaxation from labour. It cannot be doubted that the Lord provided for both in the commandment of the Sabbath. The former is abundantly evinced by the mere practice of the Jews. The latter Moses has expressed in Deuteronomy in the following terms: “The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant,—that thy man-servant and thy maid-servant may rest as well as thou,” (Deut. 5: 14.) Likewise in Exodus, “That thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed,” (Exod. 23:12). Who can deny that both are equally applicable to us as to the Jews? Religious meetings are enjoined us by the word of God; their necessity, experience itself sufficiently demonstrates. But unless these meetings are stated, and have fixed days allotted to them, how can they be held? We must, as the apostle expresses it, do all things decently and in orders (1 Cor. 14:40). So impossible, however, would it be to preserve decency and order without this politic arrangements that the dissolution of it would instantly lead to the disturbance and ruin of the Church. But if the reason for which the Lord appointed a sabbath to the Jews is equally applicable to us, no man can assert that it is a matter with which we have nothing to do. Our most provident and indulgent Parent has been pleased to provide for our wants not less than for the wants of the Jews. Why, it may be asked, do we not hold daily meetings, and thus avoid the distinction of days? Would that we were privileged to do so! Spiritual wisdom undoubtedly deserves to have some portion of every day devoted to it. But if, owing to the weakness of many, daily meetings cannot be held, and charity will not allow us to exact more of them, why should we not adopt the rule which the will of God has obviously imposed upon us?

33. I am obliged to dwell a little longer on this because some restless spirits are now making an outcry about the observance of the Lord's day. They complain that Christian people are trained in Judaism, because some observance of days is retained. My reply is, that those days are observed by us without Judaism, because in this matter we differ widely from the Jews. We do not celebrate it with most minute formality, as a ceremony by which we imagine that a spiritual mystery is typified, but we adopt it as a necessary remedy for preserving order in the Church. Paul informs us that Christians are not to be judged in respect of its observance, because it is a shadow of something to come, (Col. 2:16); and, accordingly, he expresses a fear lest his labour among the Galatians should prove in vain, because they still observed days (Gal. 4:10, 11.) And he tells the Romans that it is superstitious to make one day differ from another (Rom. 14:5). But who, except those restless men, does not see what the observance is to which the Apostle refers? Those persons had no regard to that politic and ecclesiastical arrangement, but by retaining the days as types of spiritual things, they in so far obscured the glory of Christ, and the light of the Gospel. They did not desist from manual labour on the ground of its interfering with sacred study and meditation, but as a kind of religious observance; because they dreamed that by their cessation from labour, they were cultivating the mysteries which had of old been committed to them. It was, I say, against this preposterous observance of days that the Apostle inveighs, and not against that legitimate selection which is subservient to the peace of Christian society. For in the churches established by him, this was the use for which the Sabbath was retained. He tells the Corinthians to set the first day apart for collecting contributions for the relief of their brethren at Jerusalem, (1 Cor. 16:2). If superstition is dreaded, there was more danger in keeping the Jewish sabbath than the Lord's day as Christians now do. It being expedient to overthrow superstition, the Jewish holy day was abolished; and as a thing necessary to retain decency, orders and peace, in the Church, another day was appointed for that purpose.

34. It was not, however, without a reason that the early Christians substituted what we call the Lord's day for the Sabbath. The resurrection of our Lord being the end and accomplishment of that true rest which the ancient sabbath typified, this day, by which types were abolished serves to warn Christians against adhering to a shadowy ceremony. I do not cling so to the number seven as to bring the Church under bondage to it, nor do I condemn churches for holding their meetings on other solemn days, provided they guard against superstition. This they will do if they employ those days merely for the observance of discipline and regular order. The whole may be thus summed up: As the truth was delivered typically to the Jews, so it is imparted to us without figure; first, that during our whole lives we may aim at a constant rest from our own works, in order that the Lord may work in us by his Spirit; secondly that every individual, as he has opportunity, may diligently exercise himself in private, in pious meditation on the works of God, and, at the same time, that all may observe the legitimate order appointed by the Church, for the hearing of the word, the administration of the sacraments, and public prayer: And, thirdly, that we may avoid oppressing those who are subject to us. In this way, we get quit of the trifling of the false prophets, who in later times instilled Jewish ideas into the people, alleging that nothing was abrogated but what was ceremonial in the commandment, (this they term in their language the taxation of the seventh day), while the moral part remains—viz. the observance of one day in seven. But this is nothing else than to insult the Jews, by changing the day, and yet mentally attributing to it the same sanctity; thus retaining the same typical distinction of days as had place among the Jews. And of a truth, we see what profit they have made by such a doctrine. Those who cling to their constitutions go thrice as far as the Jews in the gross and carnal superstition of sabbatism; so that the rebukes which we read in Isaiah (Isa. 1:l3; 58:13) apply as much to those of the present day, as to those to whom the Prophet addressed them. We must be careful, however, to observe the general doctrine—viz. in order that religion may neither be lost nor languish among us, we must diligently attend on our religious assemblies, and duly avail ourselves of those external aids which tend to promote the worship of God.
 
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