Septuagint Priority

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dsanch1120

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Are there any significant people or groups in the reformed tradition that have argued for priority of the LXX over the MT similar to debates over the NA28 vs TR?
I’ve heard a few arguments in favor of the Septuagint (or at least in favor of us having a greater familiarity with it), but the vast majority of conservative reformed folks seem to say that the Masoretic text should take priority in translation/interpretation.
 
I think LXX priority would be mainly in the Orthodox church. Most conservative-leaning would say the MT has priority.
The comparable issue to the TR vs. eclectic text would be, "do we only take the MT, or do we consider the other versions (LXX, et al) in translating the OT?"
 
The sole argument I can imagine--other than an assertion of ecclesial authority--is the supposition that in a translation from originally inspired text is the true preservation of the original. This seems to run contrary to the essential ideas, both inspiration and preservation of even the "jots and tittles." We should still regard a translation as the word of God, but it is so by a faithful, accurate representation of the original.

The NT writers sometimes quote or allude to what seems like a LXX rendering at times, but this simple fact does not imply a general priority. Nor is there a "definitive" LXX, or anything comparable to the Masorete form of the Heb text. No control could have existed over a "true" Greek text, let alone a rule for corrections.

This all argues against any preference due or priority for the LXX OT.
 
We kind of have to take the LXX into account since our apostles did.
If by "the Apostles took the LXX into account" you mean that the Apostles took the LXX and cited it word for word when it agreed with the Hebrew and supported the point they were making, but freely altered it to conform to the Hebrew and to better express the point they were making when they saw fit, then yes, they "took it into account."

For example, in Ps. 22:22 (21:23 in the LXX), the LXX reads διηγήσομαι τὸ ὄνομά σου τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς μου ("I shall explain your name to my brethren"), but when the text is cited in Hebrews 2:12, it is cited as ἀπαγγελῶ τὸ ὄνομά σου τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς μου ("I shall proclaim your name to my brethren").
The Apostle corrects διηγήσομαι to ἀπαγγελῶ in order to better reflect the meaning of סָפַר, the verb used in the Hebrew original.
 
If by "the Apostles took the LXX into account" you mean that the Apostles took the LXX and cited it word for word when it agreed with the Hebrew and supported the point they were making, but freely altered it to conform to the Hebrew and to better express the point they were making when they saw fit, then yes, they "took it into account."

For example, in Ps. 22:22 (21:23 in the LXX), the LXX reads διηγήσομαι τὸ ὄνομά σου τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς μου ("I shall explain your name to my brethren"), but when the text is cited in Hebrews 2:12, it is cited as ἀπαγγελῶ τὸ ὄνομά σου τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς μου ("I shall proclaim your name to my brethren").
The Apostle corrects διηγήσομαι to ἀπαγγελῶ in order to better reflect the meaning of סָפַר, the verb used in the Hebrew original.
"As a rule, Christian authors from the first five centuries argued that no opposition existed between the original LXX and the original Hebrew text (cf.
Gallagher, Edmon L. Hebrew Scripture in Patristic Biblical Theory: Canon, Language, Text SupVC 114. Leiden: Brill, p. 209.) I'll take my stand with the old dudes. I think the way you characterize the apostolic use is one of irrelevance, that is, it is only helpful insofar as it aligns with the Masoretic text, which ultimately would remove the benefit of the LXX/Septuagint from being at all relevant for the church today, given it is just true insofar as it aligns with the MT? Although perhaps you did not mean to construe the LXX in this way?

But a brief perusal of ((Salvesen, Alison G., and Timothy Michael Law (eds), The Oxford Handbook of the Septuagint, Oxford Handbooks (2021; online ed, Oxford Academic, 10 Feb. 2021), https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199665716.001.0001, accessed 8 Apr. 2025.)) Indicates the problem is far more nuanced. For instance, without the LXX the theological precision, the very vocabulary the NT authors used to express things like sin and covenant, would be missing. If the NT would not be the NT without the LXX, why would we, the church of the NT, belittle the LXX?

In other words, I'm no expert (as is painfully obvious) but my conviction is without the LXX the church of the Triune God built on Christ and sustained by Christ for all the ages would be largely deprived of a set of lexical terms that contain semantic nuances which specify or clarify Hebrew terms. Further, there is the issue that not all references seem to be from the proto-Masoretic text, there were Old Greek texts, other textual traditions, yada yada etc etc.

So anyway. Suffice to say we have the Word of God written, in our possession, and God speaks each time I open up my ESV or NIV or NASB or KJV or NKJV, and for that I am grateful. Is the MT in the possession of the church today going to be more helpful most of the time? Yeah. In every single instance? No.
 
Are there any significant people or groups in the reformed tradition that have argued for priority of the LXX over the MT similar to debates over the NA28 vs TR?
I’ve heard a few arguments in favor of the Septuagint (or at least in favor of us having a greater familiarity with it), but the vast majority of conservative reformed folks seem to say that the Masoretic text should take priority in translation/interpretation.
Such a position would contradict the Reformed Confessions, such as WCF I.8:

The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical...

The implication of such a view would be that God's Word, as it was used by the people of God in the old economy has been essentially corrupted and lost, which is contrary not only to the Reformed Confessions, but is an affront to the very foundation of our faith.

It's also worth noting that the Septuagint, as such, didn't exist in the 1st century. See this lecture by Peter Williams:
 
"As a rule, Christian authors from the first five centuries argued that no opposition existed between the original LXX and the original Hebrew text (cf.
Gallagher, Edmon L. Hebrew Scripture in Patristic Biblical Theory: Canon, Language, Text SupVC 114. Leiden: Brill, p. 209.) I'll take my stand with the old dudes.
"Christian authors from the first five centuries" (with the exception of Jerome and Origen) also didn't know Hebrew, and were simply assuming that no meaningful difference existed.

Moreover, this generalization is simply not true. If Jerome didn't think there was a difference, he would not have take years to learn Hebrew and re-translate the bible from it instead of from the Greek that he already knew. And there are clear instances of Jerome following the MT over and against the Septuagint, such as in Ps. 22:22.

And the Apostles clearly disagreed with the LXX at points, given the number of times that they choose a different translation than is found in the Septuagint.

I think the way you characterize the apostolic use is one of irrelevance, that is, it is only helpful insofar as it aligns with the Masoretic text, which ultimately would remove the benefit of the LXX/Septuagint from being at all relevant for the church today, given it is just true insofar as it aligns with the MT? Although perhaps you did not mean to construe the LXX in this way?

But a brief perusal of ((Salvesen, Alison G., and Timothy Michael Law (eds), The Oxford Handbook of the Septuagint, Oxford Handbooks (2021; online ed, Oxford Academic, 10 Feb. 2021), https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199665716.001.0001, accessed 8 Apr. 2025.)) Indicates the problem is far more nuanced. For instance, without the LXX the theological precision, the very vocabulary the NT authors used to express things like sin and covenant, would be missing. If the NT would not be the NT without the LXX, why would we, the church of the NT, belittle the LXX?
I agree that the LXX is useful in terms of seeing what Greek terms correspond to certain Hebrew terms, and for Hebrew lexicology.

As a translation, it's about as useful as the KJV, or the Diodati bible, or the Luther Bible, or the Reina Valera, or any other. I.e. it's not inspired, and it contains mistakes.


Further, there is the issue that not all references seem to be from the proto-Masoretic text, there were Old Greek texts, other textual traditions, yada yada etc etc.
Yes, some of the argumentation in Hebrews seems based on the LXX. That's why I said the Apostles used the LXX "when they agreed with it and it supported the point they were making."


Is the MT in the possession of the church today going to be more helpful most of the time? Yeah. In every single instance? No.
The MT is the inspired original, and the LXX isn't, so I'm a little puzzled by this.
 
If by "the Apostles took the LXX into account" you mean that the Apostles took the LXX and cited it word for word when it agreed with the Hebrew and supported the point they were making, but freely altered it to conform to the Hebrew and to better express the point they were making when they saw fit, then yes, they "took it into account."

For example, in Ps. 22:22 (21:23 in the LXX), the LXX reads διηγήσομαι τὸ ὄνομά σου τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς μου ("I shall explain your name to my brethren"), but when the text is cited in Hebrews 2:12, it is cited as ἀπαγγελῶ τὸ ὄνομά σου τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς μου ("I shall proclaim your name to my brethren").
The Apostle corrects διηγήσομαι to ἀπαγγελῶ in order to better reflect the meaning of סָפַר, the verb used in the Hebrew original.
Thank you for pointing this specific example out.
 
LXX is just a pinch more relevant than the KJV, no, my friend in Peru? Is it nothing to have a 2,000+ year old translation of the a Hebrew text tradition?
 
LXX is just a pinch more relevant than the KJV, no, my friend in Peru? Is it nothing to have a 2,000+ year old translation of the a Hebrew text tradition?
I said "as a translation."

That is, something that actually helps you understand the text. Really, the KJV is a lot more relevant as a translation, for the following reasons:

1) Far more of us understand English than Greek.

2) The KJV is a higher quality translation, that better reflects the Hebrew more of the time.

3) The KJV is based on a Hebrew text with niqqud, but the LXX isn't, and often interpolates the wrong vowels, for a wrong meaning.

4) The LXX has all kinds of textual issues like apocryphal books and additions, psalms that are split, psalms that are joined together, a psalm that is added, a significant portion of Jeremiah missing, and other corruptions to the text.
 
I said "as a translation."

That is, something that actually helps you understand the text. Really, the KJV is a lot more relevant as a translation, for the following reasons:

1) Far more of us understand English than Greek.

2) The KJV is a higher quality translation, that better reflects the Hebrew more of the time.

3) The KJV is based on a Hebrew text with niqqud, but the LXX isn't, and often interpolates the wrong vowels, for a wrong meaning.

4) The LXX has all kinds of textual issues like apocryphal books and additions, psalms that are split, psalms that are joined together, a psalm that is added, a significant portion of Jeremiah missing, and other corruptions to the text.
Hmm. But like, think about it this way, brother. It would be a reasonable thing for an English tradition (say, the KJV) to change its translation based on the LXX's translation, but never the other way around, you see? That's my basic point. Yes, given the textual tradition of the KJV is reliable to the Nth degree and LXX to the Nth-1 degree, you could technically claim the KJV is as or more valuable, but that's obfuscating the issue. The LXX might be a positive authority itself in deciding very difficult textual issues that present themselves in other translations. That's my basic point.
 
Hmm. But like, think about it this way, brother. It would be a reasonable thing for an English tradition (say, the KJV) to change its translation based on the LXX's translation, but never the other way around, you see? That's my basic point. Yes, given the textual tradition of the KJV is reliable to the Nth degree and LXX to the Nth-1 degree, you could technically claim the KJV is as or more valuable, but that's obfuscating the issue. The LXX might be a positive authority itself in deciding very difficult textual issues that present themselves in other translations. That's my basic point.
You lost me here. Are you just claiming that an older translation (the LXX) can't be changed based on a newer one (the KJV)?

That's of course true unless someone invents a time machine. 17th century Englishmen can't go to 3rd century BC Alexandria. But it doesn't tell me which is more helpful to me as someone downstream from both of them.

Moreover, if one wants to consider what sources were important for the actual KJV committee for their OT translation, one could list the MT, Tyndale, Oecolampadius (OT commentaries and translation), Junius and Tremellius (Latin OT translation), Calvin, the Geneva Bible, and the Chaldee paraphrase, all of as much importance as the LXX for them. There are books written on how much influence Tyndale, Beza, the Douay-Rheims / Vulgate tradition, etc had on the KJV.
 
A good example of how superstitious the fathers' adherence to the LXX was comes to us from Justin Martyr:

"But if any one says that the writings of Moses and of the rest of the prophets were also written in the Greek character, let him read profane histories, and know that Ptolemy, king of Egypt, when he had built the library in Alexandria, and by gathering books from every quarter had filled it, then learned that very ancient histories written in Hebrew happened to be carefully preserved; and wishing to know their contents, he sent for seventy wise men from Jerusalem, who were acquainted with both the Greek and Hebrew language, and appointed them to translate the books; and that in freedom from all disturbance they might the more speedily complete the translation, he ordered that there should be constructed, not in the city itself, but seven stadia off (where the Pharos was built), as many little cots as there were translators, so that each by himself might complete his own translation; and enjoined upon those officers who were appointed to this duty, to afford them all attendance, but to prevent communication with one another, in order that the accuracy of the translation might be discernible even by their agreement. And when he ascertained that the seventy men had not only given the same meaning, but had employed the same words, and had failed in agreement with one another not even to the extent of one word; but had written the same things, and concerning the same things, he was struck with amazement, and believed that the translation had been written by divine power, and perceived that the men were worthy of all honour, as beloved of God; and with many gifts ordered them to return to their own country. And having, as was natural, marvelled at the books, and concluded them to be divine, he consecrated them in that library."


Their belief that no difference existed between the LXX and the Hebrew was apparently founded, not on a comparison of the two, but the myth that the LXX translators had been inspired to translate identically in total isolation, thus proving their translation divine.
 
Their belief that no difference existed between the LXX and the Hebrew was apparently founded, not on a comparison of the two, but the myth that the LXX translators had been inspired to translate identically in total isolation, thus proving their translation divine.
My understanding is that this myth refers to the LXX's translation of the Pentateuch, not the later and wildly varying in quality translations of other books of the OT and Apocrypha.

From what I can gather, the LXX translation of the Pentateuch is a fairly literal translation, but not without evidence of differing vorlage for some passages, and a different vocalisation in places compared to the MT.

I say this to emphasise that we need to know just what we define as the Septuagint, and understand that the ancient sources we quote might not be thinking of the same LXX as us.
 
See this video:


As a side note, you only have to examine Genesis 5 to see the "LXX" is corrupt.
 
I'm struggling to see the comparison of the LXX vs the MT as anything like the NA28 vs the TR. The first is a translation vs the original language, the second is between textual differences among different manuscripts in the same language.

A more apt comparison might be the way the Papists treat the Vulgate? The Reformed cried "ad fontes" from the beginning of the Reformation, so it makes no sense that there would be a group that would prioritize the LXX translation over the Hebrew in any way. Perhaps they existed but I'm not aware of them.
 
I'm struggling to see the comparison of the LXX vs the MT as anything like the NA28 vs the TR. The first is a translation vs the original language, the second is between textual differences among different manuscripts in the same language.

A more apt comparison might be the way the Papists treat the Vulgate? The Reformed cried "ad fontes" from the beginning of the Reformation, so it makes no sense that there would be a group that would prioritize the LXX translation over the Hebrew in any way. Perhaps they existed but I'm not aware of them.
I agree with you that this is not the same as Eclectic vs. TR. Keep in mind, though, that the LXX is used for text criticism. The Greek translation is of some text, so scholars try to determine what underlies the translation. This is difficult to do, because it's hypothesizing. It's hard to know if the LXX is going rogue at one point, or even paraphrasing rather than translating, or if it's translating the MT, or some other underlying text (proto-MT).
Of course, the MT-only position sees this as a reason for the LXX to not be reliable for text criticism.
 
I don't know of any Reformed writer in support of the LXX over against the MT. Episcopius, a Remonstrant and Vossius, a Libertine seemed to have been sympathetic to LXX. In a book of the second half of the 17th century I recently got interested in written by Oomius, I read the following exemplary exposition of the default Reformed position of that time of the non-authenticity of the LXX (translation by ChatGPT):

3. In the translated texts of all languages, the authority pertains only to the matters and meaning faithfully expressed, but not to the words and modes of speech used to express them.
The reason is that none of these texts were written or approved by a prophet, apostle, or any infallible council and recommended to the Church of God. Rather, they have all been produced and written by human diligence and effort, according to human judgment, by people subject to error.

This is readily admitted concerning the texts of all other editions and languages, but it is denied with regard to the Greek version of the Old Testament and the common Latin translation.

a. Concerning the Greek edition or translation of the Old Testament:
Most of the early Church Fathers or teachers believed that when Ptolemy, son of Lagus (or as others say, Philadelphus), ruled in Egypt, at his request to the Jewish high priest Eleazar, six men from each tribe of Israel—learned in Hebrew and Greek, totaling seventy-two—were sent to Egypt. There, they translated the five books of Moses (or, as others claim, all the books of the Old Testament) from Hebrew into Greek in the space of seventy-two days.

This legend is also read in the Jewish Talmud. Justin states that each was placed in a separate chamber; Epiphanius says that there were two by two. They each made their translations independently, and when compared afterward, they were found to match perfectly—even without differing in a single word.

This supposedly confirmed to the early Church Fathers that the translation was divinely inspired, especially since the Apostles and Evangelists often quoted the Old Testament more from this version than from the original Hebrew. Because the early Latin and common edition were first printed from it, the Roman Church began to consider it authentic.

But just as it is certain that the Greek translation of the Old Testament is not, and never was, authentic in terms of words and modes of speech (but only in terms of matters and meaning, insofar as they were faithfully rendered from the Hebrew), so it is also certain that the edition, if not entirely lost, is at least corrupt and depraved. Therefore, it can no longer be recognized as the true version of the seventy-two translators.

The aforementioned wonderful story of the translation, borrowed from one Aristeas and repeated by Josephus (writing against Apion) and by Philo the Jew, is embellished and has been powerfully refuted with sound reasons by Joseph Scaliger, and after him also by Johannes Wowerius and Rivetus. These show on what grounds Heinsius judged that the Hellenists formed their opinion about the seventy-two men and their harmonious agreement.

Thus, this translation is not to be regarded as authentic—not because of its miraculous origin (which is merely assumed and embellished), nor because its texts are sometimes cited in the New Testament. For the Apostles and Evangelists did not thereby intend to endorse or equate them with the original Hebrew text. I leave aside how some elevate it as superior—even in print—such as Episcopius and others, and more recently with greater presumption than solidity, by Isaac Vossius.

Vossius, whose learning is otherwise highly praised, is disdainful of anyone not immediately swayed by his weak arguments, branding them as foolish, nonsensical, ignorant, or at best half-learned. This is surely a very clever and elegant method of disputing!

But since they (the Apostles and Evangelists) wrote in Greek, they used the Greek translation, which was known especially among the dispersed Jews. They cited it only insofar as it aligned with the Hebrew truth or conveyed a sentiment that pleased them or the Holy Spirit—while letting the deviations from the original Hebrew be.

And who can confirm and prove to us that the New Testament passages cited were indeed all quoted from the Septuagint translation? For no one without serious cause would deny that some early Christians—though pious—might have unfaithfully conformed certain Septuagint passages to match the Apostolic words of the New Testament where they otherwise differed.

For who does not know how greatly the Septuagint translation has changed, just like the Latin one? The same zeal that led to the forgery of the Sibylline Oracles to convert pagans also likely led to the conforming of Septuagint passages to the New Testament.

Therefore, once these supports for the authority of the Septuagint are removed, the great authority attributed to it falls as well, and it can claim no more authority than other translations.

Let this suffice for now as a brief statement.
Those who desire a more thorough explanation may consult the works written on this subject—especially beyond the already mentioned Sixtinus Amama, Ussher, Rivetus, Spanheim (though they speak briefly about the translation’s authority and completeness), and what is to be held concerning it: Hottinger, Owen, Vogelsangius, Christianus Schotanus (whom Vossius refutes learnedly), Leusden, David Christiani—a Lutheran theologian—and many others who have written against the Papacy.

Some of them are especially mentioned above, particularly among the more recent authors.
 
"...the LXX is used for text criticism. The Greek translation is of some text, so scholars try to determine what underlies the translation." Yeah. Essentially, I'm surprised we can't agree that in some very rare instances consulting the LXX might be appropriate. That's the only thing I'm gunning for, while admitting its like using a lemon to try to go cross state. But sometimes? Man, that lemon truly does get cross state, truly manages what the Mercedes-Benz (MT) can't.
 
"...the LXX is used for text criticism. The Greek translation is of some text, so scholars try to determine what underlies the translation." Yeah. Essentially, I'm surprised we can't agree that in some very rare instances consulting the LXX might be appropriate. That's the only thing I'm gunning for, while admitting its like using a lemon to try to go cross state. But sometimes? Man, that lemon truly does get cross state, truly manages what the Mercedes-Benz (MT) can't.
If we hold that the Hebrew copies are faithful and preserved, then the only help the septuagint may give to those not reading their bibles in ancient Greek is in translational and interpretational choices. The same is also true of the Vulgate, Targums, Peshitta, Lutherbibel, Statenvertaling, Karl XII Swedish Translation, Smith Van Dyke, and yes, even the King James (with the ones made earlier and the ones made by better translators being of higher value)
 
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