So Joel's at it again.....

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I was just checking this out. Who did Joel post about before?

Anyway, this whole thing is ridiculous. Joel would probably agree that context is very important when interpreting Scripture, and yet that point is completely lost when he interprets Shai Linne's lyrics. I'd bet that Joel has no idea where Shai is from or how he and others use the word "hottest," which essentially makes this entire disagreement devoid of any good fruit. Colloquialism Interpretation FAIL.

Nevertheless, Shai responded maturely and convincingly. Good on him. :)
 
AThornquist said:
I was just checking this out. Who did Joel post about before?

Anyway, this whole thing is ridiculous. Joel would probably agree that context is very important when interpreting Scripture, and yet that point is completely lost when he interprets Shai Linne's lyrics. I'd bet that Joel has no idea where Shai is from or how he and others use the word "hottest," which essentially makes this entire disagreement devoid of any good fruit. Colloquialism Interpretation FAIL.

Nevertheless, Shai responded maturely and convincingly. Good on him. :)
Click to expand...

The word "hottest" carries semantics that would be inappropriate with reference to God when read or heard the first time by many hearers. I am sure that for many people, semantic priming brain scans will show that the semantic distance between "hottest" and "greatest" will be much longer than that between "hottest" and something like "most popular". As such, it may be unwise to use it to describe God in a song even if what is really being intended was something good. The poster Joel may have been somewhat harsh, but what he says contains truth.
 
Most of which people, Jason ? We have to be careful not to interpret 'most people' through the lens of our own experience and remember that...there's a "rest of the world" out there that may 'get' what shai was saying the first time.

'Most people' in America don't understand what a monarchy is, since the bulk of us haven't been under any other governmental system than democracy. The idea of a sovereign ruler who can do as he pleases is foreign to most of us - and most of us associate that type of power with dictatorship (negatively).

shai showed great maturity and graciousness in his response. I don't think Joel was really ready for that (most people who go on the 'attack' against Christian hip hop or Christian "any music that doesn't sound like what I like" aren't....).
 
BlackCalvinist said:
Most of which people, Jason ? We have to be careful not to interpret 'most people' through the lens of our own experience and remember that...there's a "rest of the world" out there that may 'get' what shai was saying the first time.

'Most people' in America don't understand what a monarchy is, since the bulk of us haven't been under any other governmental system than democracy. The idea of a sovereign ruler who can do as he pleases is foreign to most of us - and most of us associate that type of power with dictatorship (negatively).

shai showed great maturity and graciousness in his response. I don't think Joel was really ready for that (most people who go on the 'attack' against Christian hip hop or Christian "any music that doesn't sound like what I like" aren't....).
Click to expand...

It is not unreasonable to view this world based on our own experiences. We do not live in total ignorance of the culture around us, and we do know enough that there may be many who won't "get it". That there are many who may does not negate that point, so for the sake of the many who won't get it and may potentially be stumbled or offended, more wisdom ought to be exercised in choosing words for such lyrics. And beyond the hip-hop subculture, I'm not convinced that hottest is generally used in the manner that Shai Linne intends it to be. Not that I actually agree with Christian hip-hop in the first place, but I digress.
 
Ever since I heard Shai Linn interviewed by Mark Dever I have regarded him as a brother in the Lord who is pious and intelligent, one who thinks deeply about ministry, words, and the Word. For such a young man he has demonstrated a maturity that is not often found in twenty-somethings.

So what about “hottest” as an adjective or appellation for God the Father? I do not believe that God was blasphemed in the lyrics under question. In Longman’s Dictionary of Contemporary English there are more than a dozen entries. The two most relevant would seem to be the two below:

Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English
3 very popular/fashionable
informal something or someone that is hot is very popular or fashionable, and everyone wants to use them, see them, buy them etc:
one of the hottest young directors in Hollywood
Michael Owen is already one of soccer's hottest properties (=actors or sports players who are very popular).
The movie is going to be this summer's hot ticket (=an event that is very popular or fashionable, and that everyone wants to go and see).
be the hottest thing since (sliced bread) (=used about someone or something that is very good and popular, so that everyone wants them)
Her new book is supposed to be the hottest thing since Harry Potter.

4informal very good, especially in a way that is exciting:
• a hot young guitar player
• a hot piece of software
• His new film is hot stuff (=very good).
be hot at doing something
• She's pretty hot at swimming too.
not so hot/not very hot informal (=not very good)
• Some of the tracks on the record are great, but others are not so hot.
be hot s*** American English informal not polite (=used about someone or something that people think is very good)
hot - Definition from Longman English Dictionary Online

Now while the appellation “hottest”, in reference to God, would not be blasphemous it leaves open the question of whether or not it would be wise to use it in this way.

Given the target audience, (21st century, English speaking, young and technologically connected people) it could be argued that less than desirable connotations will be in the foreground of the listener’s vocabulary. Here we might have an occasion of causing unnecessary offense or laying a stumbling block in our brother’s way. I will leave it for others to work through that one on their own.
 
jayce475 said:
BlackCalvinist said:
Most of which people, Jason ? We have to be careful not to interpret 'most people' through the lens of our own experience and remember that...there's a "rest of the world" out there that may 'get' what shai was saying the first time.

'Most people' in America don't understand what a monarchy is, since the bulk of us haven't been under any other governmental system than democracy. The idea of a sovereign ruler who can do as he pleases is foreign to most of us - and most of us associate that type of power with dictatorship (negatively).

shai showed great maturity and graciousness in his response. I don't think Joel was really ready for that (most people who go on the 'attack' against Christian hip hop or Christian "any music that doesn't sound like what I like" aren't....).
Click to expand...

It is not unreasonable to view this world based on our own experiences. We do not live in total ignorance of the culture around us, and we do know enough that there may be many who won't "get it". That there are many who may does not negate that point, so for the sake of the many who won't get it and may potentially be stumbled or offended, more wisdom ought to be exercised in choosing words for such lyrics. And beyond the hip-hop subculture, I'm not convinced that hottest is generally used in the manner that Shai Linne intends it to be. Not that I actually agree with Christian hip-hop in the first place, but I digress.
Click to expand...

No need to digress. I would assume that you have listened to the song in question, is that correct? If so it would not be unreasonable to surmise that your opinion on the use of "hotness" is based more on your dislike for the music versus any semantic neurological calibrations.
 
SemperEruditio said:
jayce475 said:
BlackCalvinist said:
Most of which people, Jason ? We have to be careful not to interpret 'most people' through the lens of our own experience and remember that...there's a "rest of the world" out there that may 'get' what shai was saying the first time.

'Most people' in America don't understand what a monarchy is, since the bulk of us haven't been under any other governmental system than democracy. The idea of a sovereign ruler who can do as he pleases is foreign to most of us - and most of us associate that type of power with dictatorship (negatively).

shai showed great maturity and graciousness in his response. I don't think Joel was really ready for that (most people who go on the 'attack' against Christian hip hop or Christian "any music that doesn't sound like what I like" aren't....).
Click to expand...

It is not unreasonable to view this world based on our own experiences. We do not live in total ignorance of the culture around us, and we do know enough that there may be many who won't "get it". That there are many who may does not negate that point, so for the sake of the many who won't get it and may potentially be stumbled or offended, more wisdom ought to be exercised in choosing words for such lyrics. And beyond the hip-hop subculture, I'm not convinced that hottest is generally used in the manner that Shai Linne intends it to be. Not that I actually agree with Christian hip-hop in the first place, but I digress.
Click to expand...

No need to digress. I would assume that you have listened to the song in question, is that correct? If so it would not be unreasonable to surmise that your opinion on the use of "hotness" is based more on your dislike for the music versus any semantic neurological calibrations.
Click to expand...

Yes such an assumption would be most unreasonable. I used to be quite a fan of Shai Linne and am familiar with his songs. I find great theology in his songs, though I am now convicted that hip-hop is not an appropriate genre for Christian praise. I am saying that even when apart from the music, the choice of wording is questionable. Please kindly take it to be so.
 
jayce475 said:
The word "hottest" carries semantics that would be inappropriate with reference to God when read or heard the first time by many hearers. I am sure that for many people, semantic priming brain scans will show that the semantic distance between "hottest" and "greatest" will be much longer than that between "hottest" and something like "most popular". As such, it may be unwise to use it to describe God in a song even if what is really being intended was something good. The poster Joel may have been somewhat harsh, but what he says contains truth.
Click to expand...

Christian charity would lead me to assume the best in his words, so even if I didn't understand his meaning I must be in a position to recognize that he and others may (in fact, do) use the word "hottest" in a way I don't. The shame here is that we all can't approach the words of a brother in this way.

Ivan said:
Who is Joel?
Click to expand...

No idea.
 
AThornquist said:
Christian charity would lead me to assume the best in his words, so even if I didn't understand his meaning I must be in a position to recognize that he and others may (in fact, do) use the word "hottest" in a way I don't. The shame here is that we all can't approach the words of a brother in this way.
Click to expand...

For some reason, this brings to mind the exchange between Alice and Humpty Dumpty:

`And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'

`I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
 
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