Supporting family members with deviant belief systems

[SolaScriptura]

I'm very interested in getting the personal opinions of PB members on this subject...

Most of us have family members and/or close friends who have different religious beliefs than ours.

My question is: How deviant can their beliefs be before you won't show up at a "big event" in their religious life?


For example, if you're a baptist and you have a friend who is a presbyterian, and your presbyterian friend has a baby and then invites you to the baptism of that child, would you attend in order to show support to your friend?

What about if you have a family member who is Roman Catholic and they have a child who is to be baptized or perhaps receive first communion... and they invite you... would you attend as a show of familial love and support?

What if you have a family member who is Mormon and their boy is to be baptized... do you attend to show support?

Or what if you've got a Jewish friend and they invite you an important religious observance such as circumcision or something? Do you attend to show support to your family?

How much deviance will you tolerate before you will not show up to encourage and enhance the joy of your family member or friend?

 

[Zenas]

If they're not a Presbyterian, the only important event you need to attend for them is one involving gasoline and wood.

(totally kidding Mormons.)

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

I have relatives who are in the Greek Orthodox church. I have attended their weddings to show love and respect for the family members. I have an uncle, on the other hand, an evangelical Christian minister, who will not attend because of the perverted version of Christianity exhibited there. I chose to draw the line differently than he did. I haven't regretted it. In this case, I do not really see my attendance as endorsing their particular beliefs.

 

[cbryant]

I had that same situation happen to me a couple of months ago when I attended the confirmation service for my nephew. It was in a ELCA church, the homily/sermon was entitled "Faith Wins" which not once (if memory serves) was Christ ever mentioned. Also, they had communion which I could have partaken in but did not due to the Lutheran belief of Consubstaniation (spl).

I would be as gracious as possible but make sure they understand your theological convictions and the reservations about that is happening. I know in some contexts that may mean not attending all together. For example, if a friend wanted me to attend a gay marriage I would have to decline.

 

[Blue Tick]

The question reminds me of this verse:

Matthew 10:34-39

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

May not so applicable with baptism between Presbyterians and Baptists but defintely with heathens, Mormons and Catholics.

How much deviance will you tolerate before you will not show up to encourage and enhance the joy of your family member or friend?

Good question. It may be time to share about the truth of God's Word regarding the particular deviance.

 

[Scott1]

Good questions.

First impressions below, keeping in mind more information could change each situation.

I'm very interested in getting the personal opinions of PB members on this subject...

Most of us have family members and/or close friends who have different religious beliefs than ours.

My question is: How deviant can their beliefs be before you won't show up at a "big event" in their religious life?


For example, if you're a baptist and you have a friend who is a presbyterian, and your presbyterian friend has a baby and then invites you to the baptism of that child, would you attend in order to show support to your friend?

Yes (and vice versa). I would also look for an opportunity to explain the different view in the ordinary course of fellowship.

What about if you have a family member who is Roman Catholic and they have a child who is to be baptized or perhaps receive first communion... and they invite you... would you attend as a show of familial love and support?
Knowing what I know now, probably could not go for the purpose of a [deficient] use of a sacrament. Would show appreciation in other ways if possible, and look for an opportunity to engage the views in the ordinary course of fellowship.

What if you have a family member who is Mormon and their boy is to be baptized... do you attend to show support?
No

Or what if you've got a Jewish friend and they invite you an important religious observance such as circumcision or something? Do you attend to show support to your family?
Maybe. Would also look for an opportunity to engage the views in the ordinary course of fellowship.

How much deviance will you tolerate before you will not show up to encourage and enhance the joy of your family member or friend?
A lot if they are in the household of faith, and would always look for a way to engage and show appropriate recognition in another context.

God appoints these circumstances and often uses us to bring about clarity, rebuke or redemption, maybe only plant a seed. Be faithful, and don't be overly concerned about what God may or may not do with it.

 

[rpavich]

My question is: How deviant can their beliefs be before you won't show up at a "big event" in their religious life?

Mormon or JW or similar. I HAVE attended mass with her but didn't partake of the sacrament of course. Also, I wouldn't make it a habit...I don't live close by and only see her every few years.

For example, if you're a baptist and you have a friend who is a presbyterian, and your presbyterian friend has a baby and then invites you to the baptism of that child, would you attend in order to show support to your friend?

YES

What about if you have a family member who is Roman Catholic and they have a child who is to be baptized or perhaps receive first communion... and they invite you... would you attend as a show of familial love and support?

YES

What if you have a family member who is Mormon and their boy is to be baptized... do you attend to show support?

NOPE

Or what if you've got a Jewish friend and they invite you an important religious observance such as circumcision or something? Do you attend to show support to your family?

YES but only out of curiosity.

How much deviance will you tolerate before you will not show up to encourage and enhance the joy of your family member or friend?

I guess it varies.

 

[ADKing]

The Larger catechism's understanding of the 2nd commandment seems germane here:

The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God has instituted in his Word; particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ; the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word; the administration and receiving of the sacraments; church government and discipline; the ministry and maintenance thereof; religious fasting; swearing by the name of God, and vowing unto him: as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing, all false worship; and, according to each one's place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.

How one can fulfill this command while attending on false worship seems dubious to me at best.

 

[he beholds]

If a Catholic event was on a Sunday, I would probably skip it, because I would not want to be there on the Lord's Day. If it was a wedding, funeral, and possibly even first communion, held on another day, I would attend, because even though there is mass during the ceremonies, I don't feel that it pertains to me and I'm not afraid of their false god.

If it was a Baptist being baptized I'd go, even on the Lord's Day, because baptism is good.

I would skip anything religiously Mormon, but suppose I'd go to a wedding. (Again, I'm not afraid of their false god.)

I would maybe/probably go to a Jewish thing.

In any of the false religion cases I would not try to worship with the others. I would not sing or bow or whatever with them.

This question made me feel very narrow minded because I have no [actively] Jewish or Mormon friends!

 

[SolaScriptura]

A question to those of you who would possibly attend a Jewish religious event to show support and yet you'd definitely not attend a Mormon event: What's the reason for the difference?

-----Added 9/3/2009 at 01:28:06 EST-----

... I have no [actively] Jewish or Mormon friends!

We have a few JWs, as well as a handful of Roman Catholics, in the extended family.

In our friend network are numerous RCs, a few Eastern Orthodox, several Mormons, a few Jews, and a whole host of non-practicing southernized "Christians."

 

[Kevin]

Ben, I have faced every one of the options that you listed.

My rule is to attend ANY event held by a trinitarian church. Even RCC or Orthodox. And to NEVER attend any pagan ritual, Morman or Jewish. IF invited by family or friend. I do or do not join in, or join in to a lesser extent depending on the church. I.e. I would never take the mass, but I will sit and stand as appropriate, etc.

Now I would attend a Morman, Jewish or Islamic (that one is likely this fall) sevice as an observer, after informing the celebrant/priest/rabbi that I was attending for the purpose of study. But not ever for a family event.

This may seem iconsistent to some, but it makes sense to me.

 

[Pergamum]

If they're not a Presbyterian, the only important event you need to attend for them is one involving gasoline and wood.

(totally kidding Mormons.)

Ha ha! I think that reply might belong in the theonomy forum.

-----Added 9/3/2009 at 01:53:09 EST-----

Ben, I have faced every one of the options that you listed.

My rule is to attend ANY event held by a trinitarian church. Even RCC or Orthodox. And to NEVER attend any pagan ritual, Morman or Jewish. IF invited by family or friend. I do or do not join in, or join in to a lesser extent depending on the church. I.e. I would never take the mass, but I will sit and stand as appropriate, etc.

Now I would attend a Morman, Jewish or Islamic (that one is likely this fall) sevice as an observer, after informing the celebrant/priest/rabbi that I was attending for the purpose of study. But not ever for a family event.

This may seem iconsistent to some, but it makes sense to me.

It makes perfect sense to me. It sounds like my policy, too.

Although, if you were EP and you went to a Jewish event and they sang the Psalms and you refused to participate, this would be ironic.

 

[Laura]

Although, if you were EP and you went to a Jewish event and they sang the Psalms and you refused to participate, this would be ironic.

Ha, I would love to sing Psalms at a Jewish event, especially Psalms 2, 22, 110, etc...

What about liberal "evangelical" churches? Would you go to Jimmy Carter's church along with your admiring parents, or to their own, which would welcome him with open arms as a guest preacher, because they too equate the gospel with a social agenda that includes "liberating" women from their lowly unordained positions? I once sat in such a church on the annual "Women's Day," when the guest preacher and all other participants in the service were, of course, women. I didn't do it knowingly, but now I attend another church whenever I'm in town, because who knows what's next (that was awful enough). What makes it harder is that liberal Baptists are such nice people.

 

[historyb]

I'm very interested in getting the personal opinions of PB members on this subject...

Most of us have family members and/or close friends who have different religious beliefs than ours.

My question is: How deviant can their beliefs be before you won't show up at a "big event" in their religious life?


For example, if you're a baptist and you have a friend who is a presbyterian, and your presbyterian friend has a baby and then invites you to the baptism of that child, would you attend in order to show support to your friend?

Those heathens Yes I would go

What about if you have a family member who is Roman Catholic and they have a child who is to be baptized or perhaps receive first communion... and they invite you... would you attend as a show of familial love and support?

Yes otherwise I wouldn't go anywhere my whole extended family is RCC

What if you have a family member who is Mormon and their boy is to be baptized... do you attend to show support?

No

Or what if you've got a Jewish friend and they invite you an important religious observance such as circumcision or something? Do you attend to show support to your family?

Sure even if just out of curiosity

How much deviance will you tolerate before you will not show up to encourage and enhance the joy of your family member or friend?

Not sure

 

[Rich Koster]

Scripture tells us to disassociate ourselves with anyone who calls themselves a brother and walks disorderly. Idolatry fits the disorderly category. I would have less of a problem with attending a Moslem wedding than a RC wedding. The person who would invite me to a Moslem wedding, knows in advance that we are different. I would also make it clear that I would observe, but not participate in, their prayer & rites. The RC (and some JW & Mormons), in their mind (for the most part) think we are brothers. I would have to not attend due to conscience on this one.

I have boycotted RC baptisms because I know that I would be with idolaters who call themselves brothers. I would attend a circumcision or bar-mitzvah, but would inevitably irk several people when conversation drifts to what I think about the Covenants & Messiah, knowing that they consider me goyim.

I would also boycott a same sex wedding. This just goes against nature - period.

 

[Galatians220]

I "booked" out of my father's RC funeral after about 30 seconds of it because of the "baptismal regeneration" talk at it before they even closed the casket. To have stayed would have been an insult to the Lord Who saved me out of Roman Catholicism and gave me the grace to know what idolatry and blasphemy a mass is.

I attended a Jewish bris because my boss was the baby's grandfather and everyone else in the office was going. It was a social gathering at the boss's home with a brief religious ceremony (presided over by a mohel, not a rabbi) accompanying it; its purpose was to welcome the little guy into the world and give him his name. His mother and I were friends. I didn't observe the actual bris and neither did my boss (he ran upstairs when the, uh, implements came out). The whole thing was just kind of nice.

As to what is tolerable, I would not tolerate anything that would negatively affect my witness to the real Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If I feel that by participating or attending something, I'm causing Him offense or denigrating the fact of my being a blood-bought child of His in any way, I don't go. Have taken heat for it, but couldn't care less about the disapproval of family or friends. They get over it and if they don't, so what?

Margaret

 

[CatherineL]

For Mormon big events we're all off the hook - anything inside their temple is off limits to non-Mormons, including weddings.

 

[snap_dragon]

I would go to all of them. It might be the only chance I have to engage them in discourse.

 

[SolaScriptura]

For Mormon big events we're all off the hook - anything inside their temple is off limits to non-Mormons, including weddings.

Interesting. I've been invited to a number of Mormon weddings that took place in LDS "churches." I've also been invited to Mormon baptisms... the most recent being last weekend.

 

[Laura]

For Mormon big events we're all off the hook - anything inside their temple is off limits to non-Mormons, including weddings.

That's what I thought, too; strange that Ben's been invited to baptisms and weddings. They do invite members of the community to tour a new temple before it is dedicated, or consecrated, or whatever they call it. The OPC pastor in Salt Lake City was accidentally invited to a VIP event at one such tour, and he went (they eventually figured out in talking with him that he wasn't supposed to be there, but they were still nice!). I think either they roll out a carpet over the "sacred" floor or they make you wear booties over your Gentile shoes---or both. A (Christian) friend of a friend had his bootie fall off while he was walking through on a tour; I'm not sure if they just pretended not to see it or what.

 

[Montanablue]

I do attend such events if its for a close friend or family member. (Although I've never been invited a Mormon or JW event) I view it as a way to engage with and discuss their beliefs and practices. I've had a number of good conversations come out of events such as these. I don't "participate" in any type of worship except to sit and stand as appropriate.

I can completely understand why some would feel convicted to not attend these events. It is a fine line and one has to be careful that one does not put on the appearance of condoning what is going on. Often after events like these though, the friend or family member will approach you and say, "So what did you think?" which is a great opening to a good conversation about the gospel.

Edit: I should say that I probably wouldn't go to a same sex marriage/commitment ceremony. I would politely decline and hopefully that could start a conversation.

 

[CatherineL]

Oh, my mistake about the weddings then! I had been told by an LDS friend that *most* LDS wedding take place at a temple - that's their ideal, because then they consider it to be an eternally binding ceremony. I didn't realize it was at all common to have them outside the temple.

I go to RC baptisms and weddings often, since my husband and I were both raised RC and most of our families are still RC, it comes up often. I feel like it would be offensive to my loved ones to refuse to go. Friends and family who are RC, Pentecostal, and Baptist have all come to my kids' baptisms. Its been a springboard for some lively discussions! I wouldn't go to a same sex commitment ceremony, that would be over the line for me.

 

[Edward]

I have attended a funeral mass for a co-worker, and attended mass with my in-laws. All before I was ordained a deacon. I'm not sure that I should do either now, and I won't really argue with anyone who says I shouldn't have done it then.

 

[21st Century Calvinist]

I have attended RC funeral masses and weddings and would do so again. I doubt I would attend a baptism because it will probably take place on the Lord's Day and I wouldn't get to my own church.
I was invited, but did not attend, a friends baptism into the Jehovah's Witnesses. The reason being that they are heretical. Ditto for the Mormons.
I have attended worship at the Jewish synagogue and Islamic mosque and would do so again for a specific event. I have been to a Hindu temple and have no desire to go back.

 

[OPC'n]

Been thinking about this question......very good one! It's hard for me to know. I think about that Scripture where Paul says not to converse with those who say they are apart of the Body of Christ but who are practicing sin... not meaning those of the world bc one would have to outside of the world. So although it would be hard for me to go to a gay marriage and really really wouldn't want to, should I since they are not proclaiming to be apart of the Body of Christ?

 

[SolaScriptura]

Does it make a hill of beans difference if our relationship with that person, with all the prior conversations, including conversation about the particular event, is such that it is crystal clear to all that you profoundly disagree with their religious views, but you love them and want to be a part of an event that is significant to them?

Is there a difference between attending an event at a deviant place of worship as an observer and as a participant? Or if we show up at all are we automatically, inherently and implicitly guilty of encouraging deviant/false worship?

 

[Skyler]

I would solve that problem by bringing along a pocketful of tracts. If they don't mind me passing them out, I don't see why I shouldn't be there.

On a more serious note--to show support of what? Their wrong views? I wouldn't attend to support their wrong views, no. I might attend just because I'm their friend.

 

[SolaScriptura]

On a more serious note--to show support of what? Their wrong views? I wouldn't attend to support their wrong views, no. I might attend just because I'm their friend.

This might be a hard concept for some to understand... Sometimes we have relationships with real people, not just internet people. Those real people sometimes form an emotional attachment with us and we want to be a part of their lives, to share the experiences that make them happy, etc. So when I say ,"Show support to them," I refer to one person acting selflessly to help bring increased joy, happiness, contentment, etc., to someone else who means something to that person, regardless of what they believe.

 

[Skyler]

On a more serious note--to show support of what? Their wrong views? I wouldn't attend to support their wrong views, no. I might attend just because I'm their friend.

This might be a hard concept for some to understand... Sometimes we have relationships with real people, not just internet people. Those real people sometimes form an emotional attachment with us and we want to be a part of their lives, to share the experiences that make them happy, etc. So when I say ,"Show support to them," I refer to one person acting selflessly to help bring increased joy, happiness, contentment, etc., to someone else who means something to that person, regardless of what they believe.

Oh... you're right, I don't know what that is.





Kidding... I'm kidding.

 

[Rich Koster]

Does it make a hill of beans difference if our relationship with that person, with all the prior conversations, including conversation about the particular event, is such that it is crystal clear to all that you profoundly disagree with their religious views, but you love them and want to be a part of an event that is significant to them?

Is there a difference between attending an event at a deviant place of worship as an observer and as a participant? Or if we show up at all are we automatically, inherently and implicitly guilty of encouraging deviant/false worship?

If I show up at a Mosque and sit in the back to not be a disruption and do not "go through the motions" but just sit and observe, I see it as very different.

I would not go to a RC mass because they mock Christ by " sacrificing afresh" . They also claim to be the "ONLY source of salvation". Christ alone is the source of salvation.