The Collection/Offering during Worship Service

[Romans922]

I'm seeking--with NO DEBATE--for supporting articles of taking in the collection/offering during the formal worship service via passing plate/bag...as opposed to a box in the back. Please post links to articles preferrably the best you believe there is on the topic.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

@Wayne may know if there is history on how, why, when this came in to the service, maybe something in his historical BCO, and if it was justified as an element of worship at that time or that developed later.

 

[Jake]

RPCNA:
The Offering
25. The presentation of tithes and offerings is warranted as part of worship. We are commanded to set aside our offerings on the first day of the week (I Cor. 16:1-2). God calls His people to return a portion of their substance to Him cheerfully, systematically, and as He has prospered them. The receiving of the offering may be preceded or followed by a brief prayer that joyfully gives thanks for God’s provision and commits the gifts to the work of Christ’s kingdom and the blessing of the Lord.

ARP:
6. TITHES AND OFFERINGS
Give unto the LORD, O ye kindreds of the people, Give unto the LORD glory and strength. Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: Bring an offering, and come into his courts.131
a. From ancient times tithes and offerings have been made to and received by God.132
They are a part of the ordinary worship of God, commanded in the Law.133
Our Lord also taught the importance of returning to God a portion of what one has received.134
The Apostle Paul instructed the Corinthians to lay aside their gifts for the saints in Jerusalem on the first day of the week.135
This coincides with the day when the early church met for worship.136
b. The presentation of tithes and offerings is to be made humbly before God,in singleness of heart.Pride and self-righteousness in giving is to be abhorred.137
Giving must be from a cheerful heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion.138 Giving to God should be done in response and thanksgiving for all He has given to us.139

131 Ps. 96:7-8. 132 Gen. 4:3-7, 14:20 (Heb. 7:1-9), 28:22. 133 Exod. 25:1-9; Lev. 27:30-34; Num. 7, 28, 29; Mal. 3:6-10. 134 Matt. 5:23-24, 23:23; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 20:25. 135 I Cor. 16:2. 136 Acts 20:7. 137 Matt. 6:1-4. 138 Acts 2:44-45, 4:34-35; II Cor. 9:7. 139 II Cor. 8:9.

OPC:
4. The Bringing of Offerings

a. The bringing of offerings in the public assembly of God's people on the Lord's Day is a solemn act of worship to almighty God. The people of God are to set aside to him the firstfruits of their labors; in so doing, they should present themselves with thanksgiving as a living sacrifice to God. All should participate in this act of worship when God gives opportunity for it. Parents are to instruct and encourage their children by precept and example to give of their substance regularly, purposefully, generously, and joyfully to the Lord through his church.

b. It is the duty of the pastor, since he is to proclaim to the people the whole counsel of God, to cultivate biblical stewardship and the grace of liberal giving in the members of the church. He should remind them of the admonition in Scripture that everyone is to give as the Lord has prospered him, of the assurance of Scripture that God loves a cheerful giver, and of the blessed example of the Lord Jesus Christ, who, though he was rich, became poor, in order that poor sinners through his poverty might become rich.

c. The session shall take care that the offerings of the congregation are used only for biblical purposes, such as the maintenance of public worship, the preaching of the gospel throughout the world, the ministry of mercy in Christ's name, and other Christian objects. The offering ordinarily should not be used to transmit funds to causes other than the ministries of the Church. If a member of the Church designates a gift to a particular cause, it shall be the responsibility of the session to determine, before the gift is accepted, if it is appropriate to support that cause through the Church or if the gift should be returned to the donor.

d. It is desirable that Christian love be demonstrated by offerings for the use of the deacons in the ministry of mercy on behalf of the church. It is appropriate that a special offering be received for this purpose following the Lord's Supper.

PCA:
The Worship of God by Offerings
54-1. The Holy Scriptures teach that God is the owner of all persons and all things and that we are but stewards of both life and possessions; that God’s ownership and our stewardship should be acknowledged; that this acknowledgement should take the form, in part, of giving at least a tithe of our income and other offerings to the work of the Lord through the Church of Jesus Christ, thus worshipping the Lord with our possessions; and that the remainder should be used as becomes Christians.

54-2. It is both a privilege and a duty, plainly enjoined in the Bible, to make regular, weekly, systematic and proportionate offerings for the support of religion and for the propagation of the Gospel in our own and foreign lands, and for the relief of the poor. This should be done as an exercise of grace and an act of worship, and at such time during the service as may be deemed expedient by the Session.

54-3. It is appropriate that the offerings be dedicated by prayer.

RCUS:
7. The bringing of tithes and offerings into God’s house is a solemn act of thanksgiving to almighty God. It is the duty of the minister to cultivate the grace of biblical giving in the members of the church by calling their attention to the scriptural admonition that every one should give as the Lord has prospered him. He should remind them of the assurance of Scripture that God loves a cheerful giver, and of the blessed example of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who, though He was rich, became poor in order that poor sinners through His poverty might become rich. The consistory shall take care that the offerings of the congregation are used only for the maintenance of public worship, the preaching of the gospel throughout the world, and other Christian objectives. If a member of the church designates his gift to a particular cause, the consistory shall respect his wish unless it is convinced that the specified cause is unworthy, in which case the gift shall be returned to the donor.

 

[Romans922]

Not looking for BCO's, what denomination's have said, or History. Just an article proving the collection of offerings during the worship service from Scripture. Thanks though.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Not looking for BCO's, what denomination's have said, or History. Just an article proving the collection of offerings during the worship service from Scripture. Thanks though.

Have you searched PB? Tried google? Because that is essentially what my next step would be. In this country the collection during worship dates to after the American Revolution once state support ended. Before that it was not practiced. So I guess disestablishment made folks change their minds that maybe it was an element of public worship rather than private (hence the collection box).

 

[Romans922]

I didn't want try it and then it not work and then have to 'complain' and then Rich have to say he's still working on it. LOL

 

[ZackF]

I didn't want try it and then it not work and then have to 'complain' and then Rich have to say he's still working on it. LOL

I’ll full on admit I’m just lazy.

 

[Romans922]

Have you searched PB? Tried google? Because that is essentially what my next step would be. In this country the collection during worship dates to after the American Revolution once state support ended. Before that it was not practiced. So I guess disestablishment made folks change their minds that maybe it was an element of public worship rather than private (hence the collection box).

Okay, I searched. Thanks for the reminder on that. I saw a good many opposing what I'm looking for, and not any that I saw did a good job from Scripture. Lots of stuff from history, quotes from theologians, not much from Scripture. I did find Andy Webb's article from his blog.

 

[Edward]

https:// thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/43333

remove the spaces after the // The new setup seems to have issues with URL which I'm sure will be worked out soon

 

[NaphtaliPress]

For the PCUSA, apparently the collection during worship came in with hymns with the revised PCUSA directory. The below references Melton's work as giving the history on this; maybe he covers the argumentation.

The Tithe and Offering in American Presbyterian Worship ⬩ Confessional Presbyterian

Confessional Presbyterian curates key writings of American Presbyterianism from the 17th century to the present.

www.logcollegepress.com

 

[Nate]

Here is a collection of articles on collections. Your second post indicates you don't want BCOs or what denoms have said... some of these articles are interpretations of the Church Order of Dort, but seem to primarily use Scripture to explain why the offering is an act of worship belonging in an officially constituted worship service. Some of them do not have much detail.

http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/our-order-worship-2 (second half of article)
http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/our-order-worship-10
http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/willing-heart-offering-9a
http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/congregations-support-her-diaconate-3-act-worship
http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/work-deacons
http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/office-deacon-and-congregational-life
http://standardbearer.rfpa.org/articles/worship-his-fear-6-offertory

 

[Nate]

In Dutch Reformed circles you'll find a lot of references to Heidelberg Catechism Lord's Day 38 Q/A 103:

103. Q. What does God require in the fourth commandment? A. In the first place, God wills that the ministry of the Gospel and schools be maintained; and that I, especially on the day of rest, diligently attend church to learn the Word of God, to use the Holy Sacraments, to call publicly upon the Lord, and to give Christian alms. In the second place, that all the days of my life I rest from my evil works, allow the Lord to work in me by His Spirit, and thus begin in this life the everlasting Sabbath.

Here is Ursinus's interpretation of the relevant portion of LD 38:

VI. CHARITY AND LIBERALITY TO THE POOR, which consists in giving alms, and performing works of love to the needy, to sanctify the Sabbath in this way by shewing our obedience to the doctrine of Christ. We may here appropriately cite the discourse of Christ concerning the Sabbath, in which he asked the Jews, “Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath day, or to do evil.” (Mark 3:4) And although God will have us to observe this Sabbath during our whole life, yet he desires that we give an example and evidence of it especially at such times as are allotted for teaching and studying his word. For if any one shows no disposition to obey God when the doctrine of God’s word sounds in his ears, and when, free from other cares, God commands us to give ourselves to the contemplation of godliness and repentance, he declares by such indifference that he will much less do it at other times. Hence it has always been the practice of the church to bestow alms upon the Sabbath day, and to perform acts of charity towards those who need our help and sympathy. “Send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy unto the Lord.” (Neh. 8:10) {570} The opposite of this virtue shows itself in a neglect and contempt of the poor, and in giving our alms for the sake of being seen of men, which Christ condemns.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

The below supports the collection box certainly. On your prior post, are those links saying Dordt established the collection as an act of worship [i.e. an element of public worship]?

In Dutch Reformed circles you'll find a lot of references to Heidelberg Catechism Lord's Day 38 Q/A 103:

103. Q. What does God require in the fourth commandment? A. In the first place, God wills that the ministry of the Gospel and schools be maintained; and that I, especially on the day of rest, diligently attend church to learn the Word of God, to use the Holy Sacraments, to call publicly upon the Lord, and to give Christian alms. In the second place, that all the days of my life I rest from my evil works, allow the Lord to work in me by His Spirit, and thus begin in this life the everlasting Sabbath.

Here is Ursinus's interpretation of the relevant portion of LD 38:

VI. CHARITY AND LIBERALITY TO THE POOR, which consists in giving alms, and performing works of love to the needy, to sanctify the Sabbath in this way by shewing our obedience to the doctrine of Christ. We may here appropriately cite the discourse of Christ concerning the Sabbath, in which he asked the Jews, “Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath day, or to do evil.” (Mark 3:4) And although God will have us to observe this Sabbath during our whole life, yet he desires that we give an example and evidence of it especially at such times as are allotted for teaching and studying his word. For if any one shows no disposition to obey God when the doctrine of God’s word sounds in his ears, and when, free from other cares, God commands us to give ourselves to the contemplation of godliness and repentance, he declares by such indifference that he will much less do it at other times. Hence it has always been the practice of the church to bestow alms upon the Sabbath day, and to perform acts of charity towards those who need our help and sympathy. “Send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy unto the Lord.” (Neh. 8:10) {570} The opposite of this virtue shows itself in a neglect and contempt of the poor, and in giving our alms for the sake of being seen of men, which Christ condemns.

 

[Romans922]

The below supports the collection box certainly. On your prior post, are those links saying Dordt established the collection as an act of worship?

Giving whether a collection box or passing the plate is 'an act of worship'. Chris, are you asking Nate if the links supported the collection as an element and/or circumstance of public worship service?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Giving whether a collection box or passing the plate is 'an act of worship'. Chris, are you asking Nate if the links supported the collection as an element and/or circumstance of public worship service?

I clarified; an element of public worship.

 

[Jake]

Not looking for BCO's, what denomination's have said, or History. Just an article proving the collection of offerings during the worship service from Scripture. Thanks though.

Understood. I'll see what I can find from the ARP side. I appreciate how our directory of worship and other documents follow the form of the WCF of sticking to BIblical language with ample Scriptural proofs throughout. I imagine there were some good defenses that went into producing that section.

 

[Nate]

The below supports the collection box certainly. On your prior post, are those links saying Dordt established the collection as an act of worship [i.e. an element of public worship]?

Yes, some attempt to explain that Dort established the offering as an element of public worship. Others attempt to explain the offering as an element of worship independent of Dort.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Yes, some attempt to explain that Dort established the offering as an element of public worship. Others attempt to explain the offering as an element of worship independent of Dort.

I confess my ignorance. Does Dordt have a directory like the Westminster Assembly produced list this as an element of public worship, or in their deliverances list this as a part of the public worship service as an element of worship? Or was it not the practice then and folks today are seeking to pull out justification for what is a post Dordt practice? That's what Presbyterians have had to do as it simply was not done until the late 18th century with disestablishment.

 

[Nate]

I confess my ignorance. Does Dordt have a directory like the Westminster Assembly produced list this as an element of public worship, or in their deliverances list this as a part of the public worship service as an element of worship? Or was it not the practice then and folks today are seeking to pull out justification for what is a post Dordt practice? That's what Presbyterians have had to do as it simply was not done until the late 18th century with disestablishment.

Chris, it's likely me that is ignorant--I may be misinterpreting what you are asking me. Article 25 in the Church Order that Dort produced includes instruction for the deacons to collect alms. If I remember correctly, some of the articles I posted interpret Article 25 to mean that an offering must exist as an element of public worship. "The Church Order Commentary" by Idzerd Van Dellen and Martin Monsma--widely considered the best commentary on the Dort Church Order--also takes this approach. Interestingly, they write:

"Years ago the benevolence offering for the poor was taken at the doors as the congregation was being dismissed. Our present method is doubtlessly more appropriate. Bringing our gifts of love and gratitude to the Lord should be more than an appendix to the service. It is an actual part of the service."

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Chris, it's likely me that is ignorant--I may be misinterpreting what you are asking me. Article 25 in the Church Order that Dort produced includes instruction for the deacons to collect alms. If I remember correctly, some of the articles I posted interpret Article 25 to mean that an offering must exist as an element of public worship. "The Church Order Commentary" by Idzerd Van Dellen and Martin Monsma--widely considered the best commentary on the Dort Church Order--also takes this approach. Interestingly, they write:

"Years ago the benevolence offering for the poor was taken at the doors as the congregation was being dismissed. Our present method is doubtlessly more appropriate. Bringing our gifts of love and gratitude to the Lord should be more than an appendix to the service. It is an actual part of the service."

I was just seeking clarification which this quote gives. It acknowledges the collection was not part of worship similar to Presbyterians, until later churches changed it and put it into the service. It seems a significant change to go from a collection outside of the service to an act of public worship inside the actual service and still think one is following historic forms and confessions. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Nate]

I was just seeking clarification which this quote gives. It acknowledges the collection was not part of worship similar to Presbyterians, until later churches changed it and put it into the service. It seems a significant change to go from a collection outside of the service to an act of public worship inside the actual service and still think one is following historic forms and confessions. Maybe that's just me.

Certainly that is a significant change. Some of those articles I posted seek to justify the current practice using Scripture. I understood the OP to be requesting that type of article.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Certainly that is a significant change. Some of those articles I posted seek to justify the current practice using Scripture. I understood the OP to be requesting that type of article.

I know. Don't mind me. OP calls for no debate, but for the record, I just find most of the changes made like this to be wrong headed.

 

[Nate]

I know. Don't mind me. OP calls for no debate, but for the record, I just find most of the changes made like this to be wrong headed.

I never mind you Chris I didn't recall that quote from the CO commentary, and in the past I have been told that Dutch Reformed churches have always included the offering as an element of worship. So I have you to thank for making me dig deeper this morning and correcting my understanding on that.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Certainly that is a significant change. Some of those articles I posted seek to justify the current practice using Scripture. I understood the OP to be requesting that type of article.

I know. Don't mind me. OP calls for no debate, but for the record, I just find most of the changes made like this to be wrong headed.

It may be right, it may be wrong. But the mere fact of such a change is not proof that it cannot be well-considered, or even an improvement.

Far be it from us, either to flatter our fathers by obsequious deference or blind commitment, or proudly overthrowing their grave and painfully acquired opinions. The circumstances of our churches have changed some from the 16th/17th centuries; as has also the possible necessity of so putting the collection to the hand of the congregation that it might be an appropriate prick of the conscience. While previously it may have been sufficient to verbally remind the people, or visibly remind them by way of stationing the box at the door; in other times those may be insufficient.

I'm not sure there is one rule by which to honor the (worshipful) opportunity to tangibly give for the church's need. As the OT people's freewill gifts to the Tabernacle/Temple were intimately tied to the peace/thank offerings--which were unquestionably a part of public devotions--the "cheerful" offerings we bring now belong to the same species. The altar is done away, and Christ has fulfilled even the peace offering laid thereon, but the principle of dedication that is in union with it is not done away.

Our fellowship meal engagement (in the Lord's Supper) has brought us--many of whom were constrained beyond multiple barriers of the OC era--now in the NC fully within the holy precincts of sacred worship. Why not the almsgiving and dedications as well? Some refinements of our father's practice seem worthy, even if not all have been suitably justified.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

It may be right, it may be wrong. But the mere fact of such a change is not proof that it cannot be well-considered, or even an improvement.

Far be it from us, either to flatter our fathers by obsequious deference or blind commitment, or proudly overthrowing their grave and painfully acquired opinions. The circumstances of our churches have changed some from the 16th/17th centuries; as has also the possible necessity of so putting the collection to the hand of the congregation that it might be an appropriate prick of the conscience. While previously it may have been sufficient to verbally remind the people, or visibly remind them by way of stationing the box at the door; in other times those may be insufficient.

I'm not sure there is one rule by which to honor the (worshipful) opportunity to tangibly give for the church's need. As the OT people's freewill gifts to the Tabernacle/Temple were intimately tied to the peace/thank offerings--which were unquestionably a part of public devotions--the "cheerful" offerings we bring now belong to the same species. The altar is done away, and Christ has fulfilled even the peace offering laid thereon, but the principle of dedication that is in union with it is not done away.

Our fellowship meal engagement (in the Lord's Supper) has brought us--most of whom were constrained beyond the barriers in the OC era--fully within the holy precincts of sacred worship. Why not the almsgiving and dedications as well? Some refinements of our father's practice seem worthy, even if not all have been suitably justified.

Change from outside to inside the public worship is not a small matter. Because of its newer status as an element of public worship, it can't go backwards to the former status or will with difficulty become some electronic collection gone without any notice at all (disregarding any Sabbath issues that arise). The church seems to bring change from norms without serious reflection, exhibit the church calendar, etc. Color me still a skeptic this issue was done on solid basis.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Change from outside to inside the public worship is not a small matter. Because of its newer status as an element of public worship, it can't go backwards to the former status or will with difficulty become some electronic collection gone without any notice at all (disregarding any Sabbath issues that arise). The church seems to bring change from norms without serious reflection, exhibit the church calendar, etc. Color me still a skeptic this issue was done on solid basis.

But they (the fathers) did recognize that something in this department was expected. We sit in orderly pews today (oh no, here comes another debate!). In the Reformation era, the people generally stood in a throng. Hardly suited to deacons passing efficiently among them, unless (as in the feeding of 5000) they were all asked to sit in orderly groups. But such an orderly and relatively quick collection is possible in most of our western settings today. In other words, we have to ask the question if the box was a logistical necessity, rather than a strictly-principled exclusion. Who argued that it was in old time, and what was that argument?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

But they (the fathers) did recognize that something in this department was expected. We sit in orderly pews today (oh no, here comes another debate!). In the Reformation era, the people generally stood in a throng. Hardly suited to deacons passing efficiently among them, unless (as in the feeding of 5000) they were all asked to sit in orderly groups. But such an orderly and relatively quick collection is possible in most of our western settings today. In other words, we have to ask the question if the box was a logistical necessity, rather than a strictly-principled exclusion. Who argued that it was in old time, and what was that argument?

The collection was for charity as private devotion via the poor box. The nature of this collection changed with disestablishment to address how the church would be supported. Some continued with the box just fine. Others introduced a new part of the public worship service which likely owed a lot to the practice of itinerant revivalists who had a collection during their meetings, is my thinking. Or it would be interesting to see how the independent or non established churches handled this prior to the revolution. But we are not talking just about circumstantial logistics (if we are, then go to electronic sign up as part of new membership and forget about it during services), but a change in status from performing private devotion on the way in, to "let us worship God now with our tithes and offerings" as a part or element of public worship.