The Propriety of Prayer Requests During Church

[Justified]

Is it permissible for congregates to make their prayer requests know to the elder (or whoever is leading worship) during worship? I'm not asking whether it is permissible for a congregate to give prayer request ahead of time, and I am also not asking whether elders can pray for the prayer requests of the congregants. The question really is whether prayer requests during the service are compatible with the RPW.

 

[Edward]

Slightly off topic question - would a time for prayer requests be set out in the order of worship, would they be invited by the pastor, or would a congregant just take it upon him or herself to interrupt the service with a request?

When I was a teen, the PCUS pastor of our church would occasionally invite prayer requests from the congregation. It was interesting to watch how he would deal with some of the more problematical requests. We privately referred to it as playing 'stump the preacher' although none of us participated in the activity.

 

[Justified]

Slightly off topic question - would a time for prayer requests be set out in the order of worship, would they be invited by the pastor, or would a congregant just take it upon him or herself to interrupt the service with a request?

When I was a teen, the PCUS pastor of our church would occasionally invite prayer requests from the congregation. It was interesting to watch how he would deal with some of the more problematical requests. We privately referred to it as playing 'stump the preacher' although none of us participated in the activity.

There is a set time in the order of worship to make your requests known. I personally, tentatively believe that the requests should be made known sometime outside the worship of God. The minister could then pray for those requests during the service. I'm definitely open to correction if I'm mistaken.

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the clarification. I'd think it unwise, but not prohibited. But, of course, I come from a PCA understanding of RPW. Let's see what those who subscribe to the Directory of Public Worship have to say.

 

[Peairtach]

Pedant's Corner

congregate - to gather into a crowd or mass

congregant - a member of a congregation

 

[Justified]

Pedant's Corner

congregate - to gather into a crowd or mass

congregant - a member of a congregation

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Peairtach]

We only have them at the midweek meeting, which involves a short study of God's Word and mainly prayer, but not at the two services on the Lord's Day.

Ideally you'd want to gather items for prayer before the meeting.

Unless the worship services are being disrupted and turned into informal/chatty affairs by multiple prayer requests being received from the floor, I don't look upon it as an issue.

Supplicatory prayer is an element of worship, and it is (sometimes) important for the person(s) leading in prayer to be informed about items for supplication by the congregation.

I think a slide towards informality even in our Sabbath worship services is a bad thing. I don't know if receiving multiple prayer requests from the congregation would contribute to that. A minister can request prayer requests by email or to be handed to him before the service.

 

[Justified]

Thanks, Richard. My thoughts are similar. I think that the requests should just be sent in sometime before the service. Aside from whether or not it is permissible, I've noticed that it takes too much time sometimes and that it informalizes worship a little too much.

 

[TheOldCourse]

Thanks for the clarification. I'd think it unwise, but not prohibited. But, of course, I come from a PCA understanding of RPW. Let's see what those who subscribe to the Directory of Public Worship have to say.

Just curious, but how does your understanding of the RPW lead you to this conclusion?

 

[Edward]

Just curious, but how does your understanding of the RPW lead you to this conclusion?

Not sure where you want me to start. I assume everyone here will agree with a starting point that prayer is an element of worship.

From there, I go to WCF Chapter 21, Paragraphs 3, 4 and 6. which explicitly address prayer. It is silent on how prayer requests are to be made, although it is clear that it should be done, and does set some parameters on how the prayer is to be conducted, and what is proper subject for prayer. I don't see anything which would distinguish between a note left on the pulpit, a note passed to the pastor during the service, or a spoken request at the invitation of the pastor.

If I have missed something in Scripture or the standards, please point it out to me. And I specifically invited those who are more familiar with the DPW to shed light from that source on the question and my response.

I'll turn the question back to you: Does your understanding of the RPW lead you to a different conclusion?

 

[Ryan J. Ross]

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it (Deut 12:32).

^ That's how I understand the RPW. Does the question in the OP cohere with the above?

 

[Edward]

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it (Deut 12:32).

^ That's how I understand the RPW. Does the question in the OP cohere with the above?

I have answered, you haven't. Does it?

Certainly prayer requests are Biblical. See Romans 15:30. So the question is the format and timing.

 

[Ryan J. Ross]

Edward, the confession is speaking to the element itself, the subject, and the manner of prayer in religious worship. The Confession leaves no room for interruption of the dialogical principle in worship.

Also, the OPC BCO Directory for the Public Worship of God specifically indicates that prayers of the people should be "remembered" (DPW 2B1F). The language implies knowledge gained before public worship has been called.

 

[TheOldCourse]

Just curious, but how does your understanding of the RPW lead you to this conclusion?

Not sure where you want me to start. I assume everyone here will agree with a starting point that prayer is an element of worship.

From there, I go to WCF Chapter 21, Paragraphs 3, 4 and 6. which explicitly address prayer. It is silent on how prayer requests are to be made, although it is clear that it should be done, and does set some parameters on how the prayer is to be conducted, and what is proper subject for prayer. I don't see anything which would distinguish between a note left on the pulpit, a note passed to the pastor during the service, or a spoken request at the invitation of the pastor.

If I have missed something in Scripture or the standards, please point it out to me. And I specifically invited those who are more familiar with the DPW to shed light from that source on the question and my response.

I'll turn the question back to you: Does your understanding of the RPW lead you to a different conclusion?

I would look at it this way: prayer is absolutely an element of worship. However, requesting prayer is not the same as praying. While it is certainly connected to prayer it is an entirely different act with different actors. This being the case, it can't be considered a circumstance of prayer, but an entirely different element of worship which would therefore require a defense of it as a commanded element on its own terms. Prayer does presume some sort of prayer request, but it does not make it part of the same act any more than the use of bread in the Lord's Supper allows for baking to be part of worship. It's a preparatory act for public worship.

My question wasn't meant to be hostile, by the way, I was earnestly curious as to how you were thinking on the matter. I find that those who contend for such things--even in confessional churches--often do so with little reference to the RPW and so I wondered how you were thinking through the issue within the context of the RPW.

 

[bookslover]

In our OPC congregation, prayer requests are written down on the visitor cards in the pews during the early part of the service and are passed to the pastor during the offering, which is just before the prayer. The pastor peruses the cards (if there are any) and includes these requests in his prayer.

 

[Jake]

In addition to the RPW, it could be an issue with women speaking during the worship service.

 

[Edward]

I would look at it this way: prayer is absolutely an element of worship. However, requesting prayer is not the same as praying. While it is certainly connected to prayer it is an entirely different act with different actors. This being the case, it can't be considered a circumstance of prayer, but an entirely different element of worship which would therefore require a defense of it as a commanded element on its own terms.

I do believe you have correctly cast the issue - is it an element or a circumstance. I'm not sure I fully agree with your conclusion, but I'm not prepared to dispute it at this time. Thanks for casting some more light on the issue.

 

[JimmyH]

I was going to reply in this thread, that I have never seen anyone interrupt the worship service with a prayer request, but figured I'd wait and ask my pastor.

I spoke with my pastor about this today. He said that if someone has a prayer request it should be written on paper and handed to the pastor before the service.

To interrupt the worship service would be a violation of the Order Of Worship, and as an example he pointed out that if it was a congregation of hundreds they might be there all night.

I also went to the OPC website and there is this explanation out of the Book Of Church Order ;

http://opc.org/BCO/DPW.html

 

[Edward]

I was going to reply in this thread, that I have never seen anyone interrupt the worship service with a prayer request, but figured I'd wait and ask my pastor.

Per post 3, this doesn't deal with the interruption of a service with a request, but rather the setting aside of time during the service for a request. That was the primary basis for the answer I gave, which is contrary to the position taken by the several OPCers on the thread.

 

[JimmyH]

Is it permissible for congregates to make their prayer requests know to the elder (or whoever is leading worship) during worship? I'm not asking whether it is permissible for a congregate to give prayer request ahead of time, and I am also not asking whether elders can pray for the prayer requests of the congregants. The question really is whether prayer requests during the service are compatible with the RPW.

I was going to reply in this thread, that I have never seen anyone interrupt the worship service with a prayer request, but figured I'd wait and ask my pastor.

Per post 3, this doesn't deal with the interruption of a service with a request, but rather the setting aside of time during the service for a request. That was the primary basis for the answer I gave, which is contrary to the position taken by the several OPCers on the thread.

Thanks for the clarification. I interpreted the OP saying "during the service" as an interruption. Otherwise would the 'request' be made through clairvoyance ?

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the clarification. I interpreted the OP saying "during the service" as an interruption.

Yes, that's why I asked my question at 2, and got the answer at 3.