The unknown sin.

[SeamusDelion]

I was wondering what your take is on buying from obvious flee markets set up on side streets in big cities where the items are most likely stolen from a store.

Also, if someone comes to you and offers to sell you a bunch of groceries, like meats, that was obviously stolen what would you do and would you consider this stealing as well or a sin?

Obviously times are not easy right now with inflation world wide, so I was curious what your take on this subject would be?

To sin or not to sin?

 

[Recipient of Grace]

Two verses that spring to mind: 1 Timothy 5:22, James 4:17.

 

[MyCrows]

If you know it was stolen, you could be charged with receiving stolen property. Even the state recognizes that stolen goods are not legit merchandise. It's theft, as well as disobedience to the magistrate.

If the apparent circumstance, and your conscience, lead you to honestly believe the goods aren't stolen, you can buy without worry.

 

[SeamusDelion]

If you know it was stolen, you could be charged with receiving stolen property. Even the state recognizes that stolen goods are not legit merchandise. It's theft, as well as disobedience to the magistrate.

If the apparent circumstance, and your conscience, lead you to honestly believe the goods aren't stolen, you can buy without worry.

These are markets that the police don't do nothing about because there is no evidence that the items are truly stolen, but it's well known that these items are bought from people who stole them as a lesser price and then sold a bit higher but still far cheaper.

 

[SeamusDelion]

A few verses that spring to mind: 1 Timothy 5:22, 2 John 1:11, James 4:17.

A lot of our of context verses you provided. "Partaking in wickedness with them" is talking about people who are preaching a false gospel, not selling stolen items. Laying on hands of someone hastily has nothing to do with what I was talking about either . Not sure how you came to the conclusion of using these verses. I would say James 4 is valid but I'm literally asking what your opinions are so how could I know what that good thing to do is?

 

[Recipient of Grace]

1 Timothy 5:22 (KJV) Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

Exegetically, 2 John 1:11 isn’t a good verse; like I said, those verses were the ones that sprung to mind.

 

[SeamusDelion]

but I think it is a useful principle to be derived from that verse that we are not to give approval in any way evil deeds (i.e. by paying for stolen goods).

Although I’ll admit 2 John 1:11 isn’t the best passage here, it could be useful a useful point of view to see the issue from.

eisegesis is not a good way to read scripture brother, what this says is you're reading into the text what you want it to say rather then exegesis where you read out of the text what it truly says.

If I were to apply your method of reading scripture this way I would be as the Mormons, Jahovah Witness', SDA, Catholics, etc.

I was wondering what your take is on buying from obvious flee markets set up on side streets in big cities where the items are most likely stolen from a store.

To be clear I agree that it's not good to buy from people who sell stolen items, I was just asking for others opinions, which you have not given.

 

[Wonderkins]

If I feel pretty sure that an item is stolen, I just wouldn't buy it. It might not be possible to know without asking the seller if it's stolen. I probably won't be asking that though.

When I did long haul and was parked at a truck stop, a guy approached me with a bag full of movies to sell. He showed me a few movies I was familiar with. But the cases had obvious homemade box art. I politely said no thanks and went on my way.

I think you just have to go with your gut in these situations. Sounds like a "meat offered to idols" situation to me.

 

[SeamusDelion]

If I feel pretty sure that an item is stolen, I just wouldn't buy it. It might not be possible to know without asking the seller if it's stolen. I probably won't be asking that though.

When I did long haul and was parked at a truck stop, a guy approached me with a bag full of movies to sell. He showed me a few movies I was familiar with. But the cases had obvious homemade box art. I politely said no thanks and went on my way.

I think you just have to go with your gut in these situations. Sounds like a "meat offered to idols" situation to me.

Yeah. Do you think that we are being robbed though inflation? How would you feel about that?

Grocery store owners are making an all time high in record sale prices due to this.

 

[Wonderkins]

Yeah. Do you think that we are being robbed though inflation? How would you feel about that?

Grocery store owners are making an all time high in record sale prices due to this.

Well it certainly feels like I'm getting robbed when I go to pay for my groceries. I'm not sure how to feel about it. We're doing our best in this situation we have no control over. I guess we just ride it out and hope that things improve.

 

[SeamusDelion]

Well it certainly feels like I'm getting robbed when I go to pay for my groceries. I'm not sure how to feel about it. We're doing our best in this situation we have no control over. I guess we just ride it out and hope that things improve.

Yeah we can't really boycott food now can we ? Lol

 

[Charles Johnson]

I was wondering what your take is on buying from obvious flee markets set up on side streets in big cities where the items are most likely stolen from a store.

Also, if someone comes to you and offers to sell you a bunch of groceries, like meats, that was obviously stolen what would you do and would you consider this stealing as well or a sin?

Obviously times are not easy right now with inflation world wide, so I was curious what your take on this subject would be?

To sin or not to sin?

Is this common? What is the world coming to?

 

[Scottish Presbyterian]

Read WLC 141 and 142, that answers your question.

 

[SeamusDelion]

Is this common? What is the world coming to?

Very common. I live in an area where there's an entire city block market set up with people who come with tables and lay out items they buy discounted from "boosters" and then sell them for a bit more but still cheaper then market value. Not all items are stolen, but some items are knock offs, fakes or stolen.

Read WLC 141 and 142, that answers your question.

I wasn't looking for any answery question was "what's your opinion on such matters" but thank you for this, it's a great resource.

141: "The duties required in the Eighth Commandment are, truth, faithfulness, and justice in contracts and commerce between man and man1; rendering to everyone his due2; restitution of goods unlawfully detained from the right owners thereof3; giving and lending freely, according to our abilities, and the necessities of others4; moderation of our judgments, wills, and affections concerning worldly goods5; a provident care and study to get6, keep, use, and dispose these things which are necessary and convenient for the sustentation of our nature, and suitable to our condition7; a lawful calling8, and diligence in it9; frugality10; avoiding unnecessary lawsuits11 and suretyship, or other like engagements12; and an endeavor, by all just and lawful means, to procure, preserve, and further the wealth and outward estate of others, as well as our own.13"

142: "The sins forbidden in the Eighth Commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, theft, robbery, man-stealing, and receiving anything that is stolen; fraudulent dealing, false weights and measures, removing land marks, injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man, or in matters of trust; oppression, extortion, usury, bribery, vexatious lawsuits, unjust enclosures and depopulations; engrossing commodities to enhance the price; unlawful callings, and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor: What belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves; covetousness; inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods; distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them; envying at the prosperity of others; as likewise idleness, prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate, and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God has given us"

 

[mpinckard]

I wasn't looking for any answery question was "what's your opinion on such matters"

The problem is that this isn't really a matter of opinion. The question, "Should I buy things that I know, or am at least reasonably certain, were stolen," is a question with an objective biblical answer--no, that would be sin.

 

[SeamusDelion]

The problem is that this isn't really a matter of opinion. The question, "Should I buy things that I know, or am at least reasonably certain, were stolen," is a question with an objective biblical answer--no, that would be sin.

My question was what would you think of markets with people who sell items that are probably stolen. There's now real way of knowing but it's quite obvious.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

With the knowledge of the situation, I wouldn't be a part of it. I would actually pray that such a place would not exist.

Now I'm sure there are many ways we are unaware of that our products came from sinful situations. This is different in my opinion though.

 

[C4MERON]

My question was what would you think of markets with people who sell items that are probably stolen. There's now real way of knowing but it's quite obvious.

With respect…it wasnt. The questions you posed in the OP were:
1. What is our take on buying from flea markets selling items that are obviously stolen.
2. If someone offers to sell you goods obviously stolen, what you do?
3. To sin or not to sin?

So, the answer has already been given.

 

[DanSSwing]

Yeah. Do you think that we are being robbed though inflation? How would you feel about that?

Grocery store owners are making an all time high in record sale prices due to this.

We're absolutely robbed by inflation, and the U.S. Federal Reserve is a wicked example of unjust weights and measures. But high sale prices does not necessarily equal high profits.

 

[Ben Zartman]

"All that is sold in the shambles eat, asking nothing for conscience sake"
This means that if you have no idea whether something is illegitimate, you may partake, and it's best not to ask. If you bother to inquire and you find out it was, then your conscience may well accuse you. If we only bought things we KNEW absolutely were legit, we'd never buy anything. How would you know that the beef you bought at the store wasn't raised on land stolen from its original owners, or foreclosed on by a predatory bank? The coffee I'm drinking may have been harvested by essentially slave labor, the shirt I have on was probably sewed in a sweatshop in SE Asia. The hirelings that built my car were probably opressed in their wages--it goes on and on, and it leads ultimately to cancel culture.
I would draw the line at fencing what I knew was stolen property, but I wouldn't refrain from buying something I merely suspected was ill-gotten. If someone told me surely, "this was stolen and is being dishonestly re-sold," then for the sake of both our consciences I would refrain from buying.

 

[jwithnell]

The Westminster catechisms don't give us the wiggle room to say: if I don't do X, I am keeping the commandment. The overall honesty in our dealings is in mind. From an "appearance of evil" perspective, we shouldn't even be going to a location where it's common knowledge that stolen goods are changing hands.