This Kinda Breaks My Heart

[rpavich]

Do you think the great majority of the congregation said "John who?"

yeah...the the others answered:

"you know...the guy who murdered that nice man Michael Servetus in cold blood"


"Oh yeah..that guy...that anti Christ".

 

[busdriver72]

Didn't care too much for the sermon....but he did have a nifty hairdo!

 

[Marrow Man]

Following the original clip is another by Furtick called What is the Purpose of the Church?. In it (1:07 - 1:14) he says if the Doctrines of Grace as defined by John Calvin get you excited, you're in the wrong church. (speaking of his own Newspring)

However, if the New Measures as defined by Charles Finney get you excited, welcome home!

 

[smhbbag]

In a related video to the one above, Perry Noble gloats over his theological critics like obnoxious high school basketball fans do in a blowout. "Scoreboard! Scoreboard!"

[video=youtube;VWjyN5u-tb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWjyN5u-tb0[/video]

Well, it seemed very much like he suffers from the same problem as the leader of an allied Greek city-state had when rebuking the Spartans for their lack of numbers and commitment to the fight. In this case, the scoreboard doesn't reflect reality.

[video=youtube;gI6sARmxEuc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6sARmxEuc&feature=related[/video]

Embedding is disabled, so you'll have to open it in another window.

 

[Marrow Man]

I don't get the appeal. He looks and acts like a 40 year old still living in his parents' basement. He looks like he just woke up, rolled out of bed, and headed to church, not bothering to comb his hair or change his shirt. He has no respect for the preaching office that I can discern, and he leads young people to believe that as long as they jump up that means they "love Jesus." I can't believe people lap this stuff up.

 

[ewenlin]

Ouch!

Sigh What a wolf in sheeps clothing

-----Added 8/28/2009 at 05:20:58 EST-----

Ouch!

Sigh What a wolf in sheeps clothing

 

[Marrow Man]

Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith Podcast did a show recently on Perry Noble and Newspring Church.

Fighting for the Faith: The Perry Noble NewSpring Church Special

I listened to the first hour of this show (where the host interviews a former member of NewSpring. A portion of a sermon by Noble was played. I transcribed some of the comments below, and I blog about it here.

We have people come to this church going, ‘I want a church where I can know the pastor. I could never go to a church where I can’t know the pastor.’ You need to leave. I don’t have the time. I love my wife, I love my kids, and I won’t sacrifice my family on the ministry altar so I can come eat food that I don’t like and I can hang out with people that make me uncomfortable [faint laughter in background]. … You’ve never been told that by a pastor. That’s why he only stays at the church for two years, and then he leaves. … ‘I want to go to a church where the pastor comes to visit me in the hospital.’ No, you don’t want that. Because if I come to see you in the hospital, ya’ll know, it’s bad. The guy behind me has the bag you’re leaving the room in. ‘Well, in my last church the pastor would come.’ Well go back to your last church. … ‘I didn’t like the music last Sunday.’ Here’s the problem: you think I care [more laughter]. … You don’t understand how little I care.

 

[LawrenceU]

Here you can see and hear Noble (what a disaster that his name is noble) give the message that Tim quoted above.
[video=youtube;HSxkhs9x98w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxkhs9x98w[/video]

 

[Marrow Man]

I just received a message from someone I know who is now a member of NewSpring. I will edit out some of the information to preserve anonymity. I've already answer him, but I would curious to see what some of the rest of you think.

I read your recent post concerning Newspring. I am not sure if you know this, but my family and I are now members of Newspring. I attended the entire service that the video was taken from and would like you to know a little more about the church and what the pastor was trying to communicate. First, the pastor was globally issuing a challenge in his ~60 minute sermon to the church to show the love of Christ to one another. The bigger point he was trying to make was the church body should not only count on the church staff to meet the needs of fellow members and the surrounding community, they should show God's love themselves and help a person in need. I am sure this principle applies to all curches whether there are 50, 500 or 5000 members. Second, the church is very large and extremely well organized. They have individual pastors assigned to the numerous hospitals in the upstate that Newspring serves. If/when you are in the hospital a pastor will visit you, it is just unlikely that the one in the pulpit will be that individual.

Tim, I know you are a man of God and a man who I respect a lot. I have learned a lot from you and the other godly men I know .... I particularly enjoyed the sermons that I heard you preach. I always learned something from your sermons that made me grow as a christian.

I can honestly say that I also learn from the sermons preached at Newspring. I have been present for 80+ sermons and have not heard anything that I consider biblical in error. I recognise that I do not have your biblical knowledge so you might find something that you disagree with in a similar body of works. I do know that Perry at Newspring has a passion for Christ unlike anyone I have met in my life. I am sure you do not agree with the items posted on the internet about Newspring, but I trust that you would consider the word of a fellow christian who tells that much that is posted on the internet about Newspring is in error or skewed. I pray that you do consider me a discerning Christian and therefore trust my word. I also believe I was well trained ....

The reason I wrote email is to enable you to know a name and a face of a member of Newspring. [My family] actively serve in the church and continue to grow in our knowledge of our Lord and Savior. The Newspring Pastor uses self admitted "redneck" humor to make his points. This may not be for some people and I clearly recognise that his sermons do not fit into the ARP style. While he does not consider himself a calvinist I have heard sermons from him about all elements of TULIP acronym.

I know this is a long rambling email, but to be frank I am very dissapointed in my christian ... friends who continue to talk poorly about the church I attend. No church on this sinful earth is perfect .... As we both know only God's church in heavon is perfect and I look forward to seeing you there in the future. I just do not understand why one christian should put down another particularly on a open place such as FB. I have non-christian fb friends and seeing these types of postings does not build up the body of Christ. I chose not to post a rebuttal on FB because I do not want my non-christian friends seeing the church dissagree. Please prayfully consider what I have written. I request that you read Romans 14 and think about it before you post things about churches you disagree with.

I will continue to pray daily that I will continue to grow as a christian and serve our lord and savior. I praise God for Godly men like yourself who God has placed in my life. Thanks for your time reading this email, I am just frustrated and had to rant. May God bless you and your family. Believe it or not, I do enjoy your other postings.

 

[rpavich]

Well....that's someone who's committed to NewSpring...period.

They were very polite but basically they brought up what EVERYONE brings up when someone points out something unbiblical about their Mega church.

1.) They are "passionate about God" like nobody I've ever seen.
2.) There is so much good being done there.
3.) You took x sermon out of context.
4.) I've never heard anything unblibical while I've attended.

I must admit...the tulip thing threw me...give me a break

that's about it.

 

[AThornquist]

I don't get the appeal. He looks and acts like a 40 year old still living in his parents' basement. He looks like he just woke up, rolled out of bed, and headed to church, not bothering to comb his hair or change his shirt.

Wait... you mean he didn't do that?

 

[Marrow Man]

I don't get the appeal. He looks and acts like a 40 year old still living in his parents' basement. He looks like he just woke up, rolled out of bed, and headed to church, not bothering to comb his hair or change his shirt.

Wait... you mean he didn't do that?

Actually, the Missus reminded me that the shirt he was wearing is the same as the youth were wearing for their Youth Camp (and they wore them to the worship service that evening as well, apparently). It still looks dumb, but that is much more understandable. I'd just feel better if he didn't wear one for every service. Even Driscoll wore a suit when he preached at the Crystal Cathedral!

 

[rpavich]

Wasn't he in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" opposite Keanu Reeves?

 

[AThornquist]

Wasn't he in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" opposite Keanu Reeves?

He got a haircut though.

 

[Marrow Man]

Well....that's someone who's committed to NewSpring...period.

They were very polite but basically they brought up what EVERYONE brings up when someone points out something unbiblical about their Mega church.

1.) They are "passionate about God" like nobody I've ever seen.
2.) There is so much good being done there.
3.) You took x sermon out of context.
4.) I've never heard anything unblibical while I've attended.

This is not just true of "megachurches." I've seen Roman Catholics and liberal mainline Protestants say very similarly things (particularly 1 and 2). I've seen enough of a former PCA friend rave about the UCC church (an "open and affirming" UCC church) he attends on FB...

 

[Marrow Man]

Something else that is bothering me. What is this "love of Jesus" that he (and folks that go to his church) keep talking about? I mean, it's not like they define it in anything I've ever seen in these clips. Well, they say that young people jumping up and down is "loving Jesus." But it seems like I remember the Lord say, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." I would feel more comfortable, I suppose, if I actually heard the gospel preached one time.

 

[AThornquist]

From the clips, which could very well be taken out of important context, "loving Jesus" seems to be all or at least mostly about emotions. Thus, showing "the love of Jesus" would be our emotional response to others (sensitivity, concern, wanting to serve the needy, etc.) and "loving Jesus" would be our emotional response to him and subsequent actions, i.e. jumping up and down while crying to your favorite theologically shallow praise rift. Put simply, love equals feelings.

Again, I mean to say that charitably and fully acknowledge that the clips could give a false impression.

 

[Marrow Man]

Put simply, love equals feelings.

Which, of course, is not biblical. Feelings may be associated with love, but feelings are not love. (Not saying you are saying otherwise, of course.)

A friend of mine from high school is now also a pastor. He did not attend seminary, and when he was ordained, he was basically asked, "Do you believe the Bible and do you love Jesus?" I'm not kidding.

 

[Brian Withnell]

Ezekiel 22:23-31

It is scary that these think the indignation of the Lord is a small thing. While we are here, we build up the wall, and stand in the gap. But it shall not be forever. As long as the age remains, there will be a remnant, but it might not be here, and that remnant might be very small.

I will pray for mercy though ... not only for the sake of my children, but also because the Lord is gracious and merciful. I pray his praise during my children's lifetime will be because of his great mercy poured out upon the land. Otherwise I fear for the remnant that they will live in a dark time and with great sorrow.

 

[charliejunfan]

Yeah well in Tucson next to a PCA there is a church called THE COOL CHURCH
Welcome To The Tucson Community Church

 

[AThornquist]

Yeah well in Tucson next to a PCA there is a church called THE COOL CHURCH
Welcome To The Tucson Community Church

?!?!?!?oyt98pahakjerjawfjh mfw

WHAT?! I just checked their site and I seriously need to scream into a pillow or something. That was almost as bad as some caricatures of sometimes goofy/corny evangelicalism.

-----Added 8/30/2009 at 12:36:54 EST-----

at tcc, we think god is “way cool”. Because god is so often poorly represented by religious groups, he can seem otherwise – but that's not god. When we really take the time to accurately understand god, we see how cool he really is – we do that at tcc, so “the cool church” makes sense.

. . . Ugh.

 

[Solus Christus]

I'm still trying to figure out how one incorporates a live gymnast flipping on stage into a sermon. Let alone figure what Scriptural text would then be relevant.

 

[kvanlaan]

Andrew, thank you for small-sizing the 'g'.

 

[Beth Ellen Nagle]

Very sad...

 

[Johan]

I am almost finished reading Michael Horton's book "Christless Christianity. Worth reading. I would say he gives answers to this phenomenon.

 

[tlharvey7]

the fruit of american christianity

these guys are what are considered the "promising future" of the church.
and we...of course... are the closed minded, keep God in a box, legalistic
pharisees.
it will get worse, and may never get better.
this is why it is so important to promote love for doctrine amounst our kids.
and this is why even "christians" need to be evangelized

 

[INsearch]

ehh...that noble guy just kinda irritated me....he seems very fully of himself.

 

[Lady of the Lake]

I thank God every time I realize that He's making the division between the elect and not more and more clear.

I grieve at the offense done to the name of Christ and ask for the Spirit's intervention.

I praise God for maintaining His remnant.

 

[INsearch]

What that Church needs is some very sound scriptural teachings..and since that doesn't happen very often...then we can only really reach them outside of their Church, and we can only hope that place hasn't confused them too much