Tolerating others' traditions

[Rich Koster]

Most of us, at one time or another, will find ourselves being "the new kid on the block" in a congregation. While the barfy icon comes to mind instantly on some things, others just generate curiosity and conversation. What issues would you draw the line on and depart and what issues would you tolerate in hope that others would come around to agree with you?

 

[creformed01]

Most of us, at one time or another, will find ourselves being "the new kid on the block" in a congregation. While the barfy icon comes to mind instantly on some things, others just generate curiosity and conversation. What issues would you draw the line on and depart and what issues would you tolerate in hope that others would come around to agree with you?

I have had the honor of enjoying other traditions and even eating and drinking with them--we should always Love other people--regardless of culture or even religion.

I was in India once and drew the line on becoming a hindu, thank you very much however i did enjoy the people for being who they were. Mine was a witness to them of the love of Jesus who himself ate with sinners.

A little love and respect for others go a long way. I find that most of my encounters have been very good opportunities to see how others live

I was surprised that many of them were seeking something better, spiritually. I learned from them how to be more hospitable, i, in return shared the Gospel with them.

so, the bottom line I guess is learn to appreciate other cultures, but do not let the culture influence you nor become part of the culture.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Most of us, at one time or another, will find ourselves being "the new kid on the block" in a congregation. While the barfy icon comes to mind instantly on some things, others just generate curiosity and conversation. What issues would you draw the line on and depart and what issues would you tolerate in hope that others would come around to agree with you?

I have had the honor of enjoying other traditions and even eating and drinking with them--we should always Love other people--regardless of culture or even religion.

I was in India once and drew the line on becoming a hindu, thank you very much however i did enjoy the people for being who they were. Mine was a witness to them of the love of Jesus who himself ate with sinners.

A little love and respect for others go a long way. I find that most of my encounters have been very good opportunities to see how others live

I was surprised that many of them were seeking something better, spiritually. I learned from them how to be more hospitable, i, in return shared the Gospel with them.

so, the bottom line I guess is learn to appreciate other cultures, but do not let the culture influence you nor become part of the culture.

Was he speaking of Cultural Traditions or Church Traditions?

 

[toddpedlar]

Most of us, at one time or another, will find ourselves being "the new kid on the block" in a congregation. While the barfy icon comes to mind instantly on some things, others just generate curiosity and conversation. What issues would you draw the line on and depart and what issues would you tolerate in hope that others would come around to agree with you?

I have had the honor of enjoying other traditions and even eating and drinking with them--we should always Love other people--regardless of culture or even religion.

I was in India once and drew the line on becoming a hindu, thank you very much however i did enjoy the people for being who they were. Mine was a witness to them of the love of Jesus who himself ate with sinners.

A little love and respect for others go a long way. I find that most of my encounters have been very good opportunities to see how others live

I was surprised that many of them were seeking something better, spiritually. I learned from them how to be more hospitable, i, in return shared the Gospel with them.

so, the bottom line I guess is learn to appreciate other cultures, but do not let the culture influence you nor become part of the culture.

Was he speaking of Cultural Traditions or Church Traditions?

My guess is, rather, that Rich was talking about dealing with practices in the church like Easter Egg Hunts and Passover celebrations, and not whether one can eat a Lebanese supper with the Lebanese immigrants down the street...

 

[Rich Koster]

I have had the honor of enjoying other traditions and even eating and drinking with them--we should always Love other people--regardless of culture or even religion.

I was in India once and drew the line on becoming a hindu, thank you very much however i did enjoy the people for being who they were. Mine was a witness to them of the love of Jesus who himself ate with sinners.

A little love and respect for others go a long way. I find that most of my encounters have been very good opportunities to see how others live

I was surprised that many of them were seeking something better, spiritually. I learned from them how to be more hospitable, i, in return shared the Gospel with them.

so, the bottom line I guess is learn to appreciate other cultures, but do not let the culture influence you nor become part of the culture.

Was he speaking of Cultural Traditions or Church Traditions?

My guess is, rather, that Rich was talking about dealing with practices in the church like Easter Egg Hunts and Passover celebrations, and not whether one can eat a Lebanese supper with the Lebanese immigrants down the street...

Rich says yup, I guess I should have been more precise

 

[LadyFlynt]

There are certain traditions that I avoid participating in. If others hold to these traditions, then I have learned to hold my tongue unless someone asks me about my stand or it is part of the conversation. Unfortunately, just stating that we don't do *name a tradition* will many times bring the conversation to a screeching halt. I respect their differing views, though I don't agree with them and simply request the same respect back.

 

[Herald]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

 

[Rich Koster]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

Would you elaborate on #5 for me?

 

[Edward]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

Could you translate #5? It's not clear what you are saying.

I'd trade off 4 for a church that practices proper discipline. I could put up with an occasional 'liturgical dancer' if I'm getting good teaching from the pulpit, proper administration of the sacraments, and good church discipline.

 

[Theoretical]

For #5

I'm going to give it a shot.

Basically, it's a church that does not discriminate against Sabbatarians.

Even assuming that it is JUST a Romans 14 scruple, most churches I've observed make no to minimal provision for those of stricter views while having no objection to those who are non-Sabbatarianism, with the possible exception of one scheduling his job to take place during morning worship. Most churches I've seen essentially hold to a least common denominator position with their non-Sabbatarianism, accommodating non-Sabbatarians or those holding not very strict views, but making little to no provision for those who have stricter views. Those without families are often especially on their own.

An example of such a provision would be occasionally fixing a meal at home, inviting a scrupling brother/sister who abstains on the Lords day and who is not able to normally join you and your family when going out to eat. One of the few good examples I've read was where Prufrock in another thread mentioned how his church allowed him and several others to stay at the church building, cook a little meal and fellowship together in the afternoon to accommodate their stricter standards. This is quite alien to what I've observed in several different congregations.

 

[Herald]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

Could you translate #5? It's not clear what you are saying.

I'd trade off 4 for a church that practices proper discipline. I could put up with an occasional 'liturgical dancer' if I'm getting good teaching from the pulpit, proper administration of the sacraments, and good church discipline.

It's a minority of Baptist churches that hold to a pro-sabbatarian view by the pastor and elders. At a minimum I would not want an antagonistic response to my keeping the sabbath.

 

[Rich Koster]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

Could you translate #5? It's not clear what you are saying.

I'd trade off 4 for a church that practices proper discipline. I could put up with an occasional 'liturgical dancer' if I'm getting good teaching from the pulpit, proper administration of the sacraments, and good church discipline.

It's a minority of Baptist churches that hold to a pro-sabbatarian view by the pastor and elders. At a minimum I would not want an antagonistic response to my keeping the sabbath.

I have found the ones that I have been part of do not badger people for being at either end of the spectrum. The only time I ever heard a fuss was when someone tried to bring up the Saturday or 7th day issue.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I've visted RCC, Calvary Chapel, PCA, Penecostal, Messianic, Baptisit churches. I always try to be respectful of everyones tradition even if I disagree with some of the methods. It's just interesting to see why certain people do certain things.

 

[Rich Koster]

I've visted RCC, Calvary Chapel, PCA, Penecostal, Messianic, Baptisit churches. I always try to be respectful of everyones tradition even if I disagree with some of the methods. It's just interesting to see why certain people do certain things.

When you see something quite odd, do you ever probe for background info, a history lesson or a scriptural reason why it is done? I'm known for asking questions.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I've visted RCC, Calvary Chapel, PCA, Penecostal, Messianic, Baptisit churches. I always try to be respectful of everyones tradition even if I disagree with some of the methods. It's just interesting to see why certain people do certain things.

When you see something quite odd, do you ever probe for background info, a history lesson or a scriptural reason why it is done? I'm known for asking questions.

Yes, I was interested in several traditions before I become into the reformed tradition. I tried to find the most biblical.

 

[Rich Koster]

I've visted RCC, Calvary Chapel, PCA, Penecostal, Messianic, Baptisit churches. I always try to be respectful of everyones tradition even if I disagree with some of the methods. It's just interesting to see why certain people do certain things.

When you see something quite odd, do you ever probe for background info, a history lesson or a scriptural reason why it is done? I'm known for asking questions.

Yes, I was interested in several traditions before I become into the reformed tradition. I tried to find the most biblical.

Did you get a favorable response when inquiring or did you get handed a pamphlet and left on your own?

 

[Matthias]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

I really like your comment about the definition of the Christian Church. The Bible does show us what a Christian church is to look like, and just because one calls itself "Christian" does NOT mean it is a Christian church.

 

[ReformedChapin]

When you see something quite odd, do you ever probe for background info, a history lesson or a scriptural reason why it is done? I'm known for asking questions.

Yes, I was interested in several traditions before I become into the reformed tradition. I tried to find the most biblical.

Did you get a favorable response when inquiring or did you get handed a pamphlet and left on your own?

I usually try to research it on my own. I learned to look for each denominations official documents and not relay on the leadership which can often be wrong.

 

[nicnap]

I could put up with an occasional 'liturgical dancer'

I smell a hit coming for Theognome. Hold me closer Liturgcal dancer

 

[OPC'n]

I really don't like cultures that are really loud. Other than that all's good.

 

[Rich Koster]

Yes, I was interested in several traditions before I become into the reformed tradition. I tried to find the most biblical.

Did you get a favorable response when inquiring or did you get handed a pamphlet and left on your own?

I usually try to research it on my own. I learned to look for each denominations official documents and not relay on the leadership which can often be wrong.

A statement/confession is a good start, but what about all of the things that are not clearly spelled out in them?

 

[Geneva]

Below are non-negotiable items where there is more than one Christian church in the area.

1. Approach to teaching the Word of God. Do the pastor and elders consider the bible to be the Word of God, and the sole authority for all matters of faith an practice?

2. Proper view and administration of the ordinances/sacraments.

3. Holding to the doctrines of grace.

4. Commitment to the RPW in most facets of worship.

5. Non-antagonistic view of the Lord's Day

For me, the above is the minimum I would accept in a church. Now, if I lived in an area where I had no choice as to what church I would attend, I would need to determine whether the churches in the area are Christian churches. If at least one of those choices fit my definition of a Christian church, I would worship and fellowship with the saints.

Could you translate #5? It's not clear what you are saying.

I'd trade off 4 for a church that practices proper discipline. I could put up with an occasional 'liturgical dancer' if I'm getting good teaching from the pulpit, proper administration of the sacraments, and good church discipline.

The occasional 'liturgical dancer'? What scriptual warrant would you have for that in the first place? Worship is a serious thing. We can't just decide what we would tolerate if God's Word gives no principal.

George
Baptist Minister
Louisiana

 

[Rich Koster]

I could put up with an occasional 'liturgical dancer'

I smell a hit coming for Theognome. Hold me closer Liturgcal dancer

A parody of the Elton John tune?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Did you get a favorable response when inquiring or did you get handed a pamphlet and left on your own?

I usually try to research it on my own. I learned to look for each denominations official documents and not relay on the leadership which can often be wrong.

A statement/confession is a good start, but what about all of the things that are not clearly spelled out in them?

If I can't find the information in official church documents then I do try to go to a credible person/source for information.

 

[KMK]

I try to avoid churches where the only way to see the preacher is on one of the big screens.

 

[Montanablue]

I'm rather in this situation right now. Because I live in a very small and remote town, there is basically only one Bible-believing church which I can feasibly attend. (To go somewhere else would require extensive travel on Sundays - which would be prohibitive both financially and physically). Fortunately, my church does preach the gospel, although it is not reformed. As well, we do have other reformed members who in a situation similar to mine. I was thinking about things that would make me travel to a different church and this is what I came up with:

- Not holding to inerrancy of Scripture (this is the big one)
- Mandating extra-biblical practices/adding to God's law (for example, mandating that all of the church's children be homeschooled etc)
- Emphasizing works over faith

I think that those would be the deal-breakers for me. There are many other things that I might not be happy about, but that I could live with.

 

[DonP]

Well if they don't use wine and have a nursery, then that's it for me I am outta there.
Actually I am more practical, the absence of padded pews does it.


Though I prefer a much stricter RPW, going on mission trips to 3rd world countries has been an eye opener. I won't even tell you what I have gone to. Some had to tell myself I was not going to a worship service but a pagan gathering to evangelize.

For a year or two we drove 2 1/2 hours each way to get to a reformed faithful church each Lord's day. They kept us for lunch every week and we drove home after eve worship. The travel in a car was not an issue for me. Being in a faithful church with a minister who understood the Word & had discipline was.

Point it what is my intent and desire. No one can make me dirty, only I can make me dirty. The Lord knows my heart and intent.
But since He has not seen fit to preserve a congregation holding to what I think He requires of them who know to do good, in every city I travel to, does not mean I am compromising.

I don't take vacations for fun where there is not a solid church. Did it once, went to a Carribean Island Pentecostal church and was able to offer some truth in the Sunday School class on Lordship salvation. But I don't feel the liberty when I have a choice for pleasure to do that. Needless to say, I with held going forward at the altar call and did not participate in being slain in a spirit. But this was all they knew.

I went to one R Catholic wedding once and will never set foot in a catholic chapel again while anything is going on except a public tour.

 

[LawrenceU]

One thing that will send us packing is requiring children to go to either the nursery or 'children's church'. I have seen 'greeters' actually get rude at some churches when they have visiting parents that want their children to sit with them and the parents stress that it is their desire after the 'friendly suggestion'. They did this to us once and our daughter was 12 at the time. This seems to be especially rampant among those who are trying to be sensitive to seekers. Go figure.

 

[Knoxienne]

Things I don't necessarily like but can tolerate:

1. Nurseries
2. Age-Segregated Sunday School (Sunday school was invented for heathen children in the first place, but if we have to have SS, it should be integrated like the service!)
3. Sermons which only last 30-40 minutes
4. Church sponsored women's bible studies led by women (I'm not against women teaching women, but I'm not sure this is how it should be)
5. Committees
6. Offertory during worship (I don't think passing a plate/bag/basket should be part of the service. There ought to be a giving box in the sanctuary or foyer or something. I'd rather have a longer sermon than have offertory time!)
7. Weekly Communion - the center of biblical/protestant worship is the sermon, not the sacraments/ordinances, and although I used to believe in an every week view, I've changed my mind on the necessity for that. Again, gimme a longer sermon!
8. Recitation of the Nicene/Apostle's Creed - nothing wrong with them per se, but reminds me too much of the RCC. We have reformed confessions which are more highly developed than the creeds, and if we're going to recite anything extra biblical (and that should be minimal) it should be those.
9. Pew bibles - they're good for guests, but I think they encourage laziness in folks.


Things I can't tolerate i.e., I'd have to leave or not join:

Grape juice during the Lord's Supper ( I realize people struggle with drunkenness, but I don't think the solution to the problem is grape juice during the Supper, but responsibility/temperance or abstinence outside the service in our daily lives concerning alchohol. I think as reformed Christians [especially those of us with fundy/teetotaling backgrounds] we tend to be way too lax in this area.)
Choirs
Soloists
Overhead projectors during worship
Heavy liturgical bells n smells stuff like kneelers, incense, constant reciting and also with youing, etc
Preaching out of the NIV
Children's Church

 

[Montanablue]

Things I don't necessarily like but can tolerate:

1. Nurseries
2. Age-Segregated Sunday School (Sunday school was invented for heathen children in the first place, but if we have to have SS, it should be integrated like the service!)
3. Sermons which only last 30-40 minutes
4. Church sponsored women's bible studies led by women (I'm not against women teaching women, but I'm not sure this is how it should be)
5. Committees
6. Offertory during worship (I don't think passing a plate/bag/basket should be part of the service. There ought to be a giving box in the sanctuary or foyer or something. I'd rather have a longer sermon than have offertory time!)
7. Weekly Communion - the center of biblical/protestant worship is the sermon, not the sacraments/ordinances, and although I used to believe in an every week view, I've changed my mind on the necessity for that. Again, gimme a longer sermon!
8. Recitation of the Nicene/Apostle's Creed - nothing wrong with them per se, but reminds me too much of the RCC. We have reformed confessions which are more highly developed than the creeds, and if we're going to recite anything extra biblical (and that should be minimal) it should be those.
9. Pew bibles.


Things I can't tolerate i.e., I'd have to leave or not join:

Grape juice during the Lord's Supper ( I realize people struggle with drunkenness, but I don't think the solution to the problem is grape juice during the Supper, but responsibility/temperance or abstinence outside the service in our daily lives concerning alchohol. I think as reformed Christians [especially those of us with fundy/teetotaling backgrounds] we tend to be way too lax in this area.)
Choirs
Soloists
Overhead projectors during worship
Heavy liturgical bells n smells stuff like kneelers, incense, constant reciting and also with youing, etc
Preaching out of the NIV
Children's Church

May I ask why you don't like pew Bibles? I find them handy when I bring a friend to church with me who does not own her own Bible.