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Discussion in 'Federal Vision/New Perspectives' started by greenbaggins, Mar 7, 2008.
This is true. There are some posts on TE Stellman's blog.
This is an insightful question, and I appreciate the humor with which others have answered it, but I have chosen to deal with it seriously. In fact, I revised my current story on the LaP, to comment on this question.
I think if you read my original story on the Jan. 19 LaP meeting, you will get a sense of how some of the votes were subtly nuanced, with commissioners voting the same way for different reasons. Perhaps I was not subtly nuanced enough, as I got private correspondence from a friend of mine in an FV church, chiding me that there were commissioners at the Jan. 19 meeting voting in a perceivably anti-FV way, who really were pro-FV, but who were voting the way they did in order to protect the LaP vis a vis the SJC. That may be the case, somewhat, but I think not significantly. I think the over-arching point is that groups arrive at truth, or clarify truth, gradually, with different members getting it quicker than others.
Let's take a concrete example. Rev. Wilkins' associate pastor made a motion at the Jan. 19 meeting to disapprove Rev. Wilkins' FV views. He was hoping a negative vote would be construed as a "vote of confidence" on Rev. Wilkins. That motion failed. I voted against it, not because I favored Rev. Wilkins' views, but because I felt the motion was out of order. The moderator had ruled it was in order, and I had not had the presence of mind to appeal the decision of the chair. Probably I would have lost that vote, if I had appealed it.
The point is -- there were subtle shades of issues. We got there gradually. Those of you from elsewhere who are so sure you are clearly pro-FV or clearly anti-FV have trouble understanding why we did this or that. The answer is, I think -- truth is a process, not having arrived fully.
That is fine, brother. I do not want to put you in a awkard sitution. I have never met him, but knew only of his connection in this.
I have real concerns for the PCA when they start doing this kind of thing. We can surmise that issues of worship or women in leadership will split the denomination, but these kind of actions is what led to the demise of the old PCUS. The "be charitable" types are more of a threat to the unity of the church than the so-called TR's (which I am happy to be a member of that club
Thanks, brother. The sad thing in all of this is it puts friends we love on the wrong side of the issue. We all find ourselves in similar situations.
I hope not another committee to find him in conformity with the Westminster Standards. I sometimes wonder why these Presbyteries or members of Presbyteries do not leave the denomination or at least throw out the standards. Little by little they keep chipping away at our confession until nothing is left. I would encourage everyone to read Dr. Morton Smith's excellent book, How The Gold Has Become Dim.
I love the quote from Luther. The older I get the more I crave the beer over the milk
Question for Haiglaw; Did you really mean to say that "truth is a process"?
Imperfect perceptions of truth
Yes, in the sense we are all sinful and fallible and non-omniscient.
Jesus Christ is Truth incarnate, and the Word of God written is inerrant.
But our perceptions of Truth are in the process of sanctification, just like everything else about us. Paul said he had not arrived, he was continuing the course, he was fighting the good fight.
That was what I meant. Make sense?
BTW, as a PCA member in the NW, I would like to request prayer for our presbytery that it would make a wise diecision re; Leithart which will protect us from FV but also be fair to Rev. Leithart. (I haven't read him, so don't have a formed opinion, but I do have an opinion re; FV).
prayer and discernment?
Yes, indeed. I have not read him either. I do pray for your presbytery's discernment as you approach these important issues.
This blog has periodic updates regarding the proceedings about Leithart in the PNW Presbytery.
De Regnis Duobus: Cult, Culture, and the Christian's Dual Citizenship