what is the best seminary for learning the biblical languages?
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Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I am under the impression that DTS is a seminary that requires more language work than others (5 Greek semesters, 4 Hebrew; more if you want to major in the languages), but I have no way of determining if the level of proficiency is similar to GPTS or others. I have also heard that TEDS is very heavy on the languages.
On a side note though, I would reask your question, "What is the best REFORMED seminary......."
Both DTS and TEDS would not fit this criteria.
On a side note though, I would reask your question, "What is the best REFORMED seminary......."
Both DTS and TEDS would not fit this criteria.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Frankly, I think that is a silly question. There are a number of schools at which one can learn the languages to a superlative degree.
Regarding learning the languages... I don't think it is safe to make the decision solely based on the number of required courses in the catalog. I remember when I first got to SBTS I was in my shepherding group with Dr. Stein and he was lamenting that the last 2 guys from DTS to seek admittance into Southern's PhD program had failed the Greek exam. (Apparently it had just happened and it bothered him for some reason.) Anyway, just because these guys sat through a ThM and all those courses doesn't mean they turned into Darrell Bock or Dan Wallace. I suppose the number of courses required might serve as a starting point, but ultimately the question of how well you will learn the languages rests solely with the student.
(BTW - After sitting for the past couple weeks with guys who came from schools where they didn't have to take even 1 original language course... pretty much ANY school that would be considered by anyone on the PB is going to be excellent in comparison.)
Regarding learning the languages... I don't think it is safe to make the decision solely based on the number of required courses in the catalog. I remember when I first got to SBTS I was in my shepherding group with Dr. Stein and he was lamenting that the last 2 guys from DTS to seek admittance into Southern's PhD program had failed the Greek exam. (Apparently it had just happened and it bothered him for some reason.) Anyway, just because these guys sat through a ThM and all those courses doesn't mean they turned into Darrell Bock or Dan Wallace. I suppose the number of courses required might serve as a starting point, but ultimately the question of how well you will learn the languages rests solely with the student.
(BTW - After sitting for the past couple weeks with guys who came from schools where they didn't have to take even 1 original language course... pretty much ANY school that would be considered by anyone on the PB is going to be excellent in comparison.)
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
Ben, there are a number of seminaries that are quite rigorous in their language training. WTS and WSC are known for their language skills, as is GPTS, RTS Jackson, and MARS. These are all solid Reformed seminaries.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
I know, that was my point - you can learn the languages well at any number of schools. I'm confused... what did I write that you're responding to?
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
I was responding to the Ben who wrote the original post, not to you.
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
Ben, you're going to have to be more specific about your desires. Do you want a divinity curriculum that includes a strong language component, or do you want to specialize in biblical languages?
If the former, there are plenty of schools already listed that are all fine choices. If the latter, I would recommend Wheaton's MA in biblical exegesis or Trinity Evangelical Divinity School's languages MA's.
If the former, there are plenty of schools already listed that are all fine choices. If the latter, I would recommend Wheaton's MA in biblical exegesis or Trinity Evangelical Divinity School's languages MA's.
As far as languages are concerned, I don't think that there will be too great of a difference between most major schools. Have you looked at Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina?
There was a man from my church who just graduated from GPTS with an M.A. in Hebrew I believe and GPTS was recommended to him by one of the foremost Hebrew scholars in conservative reformed Christianity, Dr. Michael P.V. Barrett, who is the president of Geneva Reformed Seminary, which is also located in Greenville.
There was a man from my church who just graduated from GPTS with an M.A. in Hebrew I believe and GPTS was recommended to him by one of the foremost Hebrew scholars in conservative reformed Christianity, Dr. Michael P.V. Barrett, who is the president of Geneva Reformed Seminary, which is also located in Greenville.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Ben,
Are you asking about a seminary because you think that is the only/best place for immersion in the biblical languages? Are you wanting a school at which to receive a ministerial education, of which training in the languages are a vital part, or are you wanting to be a language scholar?
If you're not wanting a full-blown ministerial education, go to a school like Hebrew Union College, or Johns Hopkins University, or even the University of Wisconsin Madison... all of which have world class semitic language departments.
Are you asking about a seminary because you think that is the only/best place for immersion in the biblical languages? Are you wanting a school at which to receive a ministerial education, of which training in the languages are a vital part, or are you wanting to be a language scholar?
If you're not wanting a full-blown ministerial education, go to a school like Hebrew Union College, or Johns Hopkins University, or even the University of Wisconsin Madison... all of which have world class semitic language departments.
Hey, thank you everyone for your replies. They have been very helpful. I would be going to seminary for an M.Div., but I want to be at a place which will let me really continue hard with Hebrew and semitic language studies if possible. So essentially what I am looking for is...
-solid reformed seminary
-good M.Div. program which puts an emphasis on the languages
-one or more professors who have a deep background in Biblical Hebrew and semitic languages
So far it sounds like the following are the best for this...
-GPTS
-WSC
-WTS
-RTS Jackson
-MARS
And does anyone know anything about Bethlehem Seminary (John Piper started this recently) and how they are with the languages?
Thanks guys.
God bless,
--Ben
-solid reformed seminary
-good M.Div. program which puts an emphasis on the languages
-one or more professors who have a deep background in Biblical Hebrew and semitic languages
So far it sounds like the following are the best for this...
-GPTS
-WSC
-WTS
-RTS Jackson
-MARS
And does anyone know anything about Bethlehem Seminary (John Piper started this recently) and how they are with the languages?
Thanks guys.
God bless,
--Ben
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Ben - I just noticed that you're a Reformed Baptist. If you're committed to being a credobaptist, then strongly consider Southern Seminary. Excellent seminary with just about everything going for it.
Bookmeister
Puritan Board Freshman
RTS-Jackson last year began a Biblical Exegesis emphasis for their MDiv. I am taking this and it is most excellent. The OT/NT classes all are language centered as well. Miles Van Pelt wrote the Hebrew grammar and is one of the best instructors, not just language instructors, he is one of the best instructors I have ever encountered. I highly recommend it.
TomVols
Puritan Board Freshman
When I was at Southern, we covered in one semester what most places covered in a year. My Bible College did the same thing. Our Hebrew 1 used the DTS text and we covered in one semeseter what they covered in a year. Southern used to have an M.Div with a concentration in Biblical Languages. Not sure if they still do. But I do know they require two semesters of each.
Glad to see that Westminster Seminary California could be an option for you. WSC requires a relatively packed 10 hours of Greek and 10 hours of Hebrew (we also offer some beginning Aramaic as an elective every other year with a focus on reading Daniel 2-7). However, in addition to looking at the language requirements on paper, it is important to explore the way various seminaries use Greek/Hebrew within their entire curriculum. Though this is not necessarily unique to the Westminster tradition, you will find it particularly emphasized at both WSC and WTS. A functional/working knowledge of Greek and Hebrew is pre-requisite for virtually all of our Biblical Studies and Systematic Theology courses and used extensively in each class. Likewise, students are required to show that they have done exegetical work in the original languages in preparation for their sermons in our upper-level preaching courses. Thus, the languages are not a requirement to be fulfilled and then set aside, but rather are truly integrated throughout the curriculum. We don't offer an M.Div. "exegesis" track, because all students are on this track. Students are only permitted to use their Greek/Hebrew Bibles for their final exams for Biblical Studies/Systematic Theology Courses.
Feel free to email me if you have specific questions. I would also be happy to put you in touch with one of our OT profs if that would be helpful (both have pretty extensive backgrounds in Semitic languages). We also have plans to add another Biblical Studies prof to teach languages for 2011-12. We also have the IRBS program for Reformed Baptist students that you should consider.
Ben,
I think you would do well at any of the major Reformed Seminaries. Each of them (e.g. PCA, OPC, Reformed Baptist type feeder seminaries) has far greater emphasis on the languages than any of the non-Reformed (e.g. mainline) seminaries. Having said that, you will still need to put in a good deal of the work yourself. Seminaries have a great deal of ground to cover, and are not full time language places. Even the best only scratch the surface and give you tools to pursue the languages on your own (which is as it should be).
By anecdote - I used to read more Greek in one day in my Classics studies at U Chicago than is typically read in an entire semester in the seminaries.
I think you would do well at any of the major Reformed Seminaries. Each of them (e.g. PCA, OPC, Reformed Baptist type feeder seminaries) has far greater emphasis on the languages than any of the non-Reformed (e.g. mainline) seminaries. Having said that, you will still need to put in a good deal of the work yourself. Seminaries have a great deal of ground to cover, and are not full time language places. Even the best only scratch the surface and give you tools to pursue the languages on your own (which is as it should be).
By anecdote - I used to read more Greek in one day in my Classics studies at U Chicago than is typically read in an entire semester in the seminaries.
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SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Fred - could you link this to the thread on where to do an undergrad degree? I suggested doing a Classics degree... I think your experience supports my thesis.
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Wayne
Tempus faciendi, Domine.
If you were going just for the teacher, without consideration of the entire program at a given school, then I'd opt for studying Hebrew under V. Philips Long at Regent University.
(which is not to make any statement, positive or negative, about Regent)
Not sure who would be the top-flight instructor in Greek at present. Mounce apparently isn't teaching anywhere at present.
I do think the expertise, enthusiasm and high standards or expectations of a given teacher go a long way in bringing out the best in students.
The one other thing I would offer is that course work is one thing, but it is all to no avail if you don't continue your work in the languages throughout the rest of your ministry. If you set them aside, they will disappear quickly. You'll still be able to use the helps, but that'll be about all you can do. On the other hand, if you read daily and keep at it, you will truly progress.
(which is not to make any statement, positive or negative, about Regent)
Not sure who would be the top-flight instructor in Greek at present. Mounce apparently isn't teaching anywhere at present.
I do think the expertise, enthusiasm and high standards or expectations of a given teacher go a long way in bringing out the best in students.
The one other thing I would offer is that course work is one thing, but it is all to no avail if you don't continue your work in the languages throughout the rest of your ministry. If you set them aside, they will disappear quickly. You'll still be able to use the helps, but that'll be about all you can do. On the other hand, if you read daily and keep at it, you will truly progress.
danborvan
Puritan Board Freshman
I echo what Mark MacVey said about WSC. It would be helpful to inquire of each seminary if they conduct their systematic theology courses with an open Greek or Hebrew Bible. Do their systematic theology courses require essays that include exegetical work in the original languages? Are their biblical studies courses taught using the original languages or the English Bible? Do the biblical studies courses require serious exegetical papers (18-20 pgs.) in their course requirements? I'm sure that this is true of other seminaries, but the Greek and Hebrew grammar courses are only the beginning of your language study at WSC.
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
As a heads up, this is not the case with DTS. How many seminaries are really set up this way?
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
RTS Jackson has an interesting intensive program now.
Summer Institute for Biblical Languages – Justin Taylor
Summer Institute for Biblical Languages – Justin Taylor
Grimmson
Puritan Board Sophomore
When considering a seminary regarding learning the biblical languages you must ask two questions. The first question is of yourself, do you have a language learning disable or problem? The second, if you do have a language learning disable then is the seminary or professor have something planned that will be able to help you pass and not just barely pass the language course? Many professors may not be able to provide the one on one support that one may need to learn the languages which is why you need to ask the students of the seminary regarding their language learning experience instead of just asking faculty members, who job is to recruit more students. The reason why they may not have the time is due to writing projects or other commitments and not just to the learning experience of their students alone; to compensate this fact they may throw you to a tutor who does not have the educational experience or the time required to assist or the profs may tell you to keep retaking the class until you pass. I could tell you what my language learning experience was like, but am not going to do it in this thread because I do not want to get into a fight about my own experience and the health issues that I experienced with people in this thread.
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