What is the difference between the PCA and OPC?

[Christusregnat]

Will the brothers in the PCA and OPC please help me to understand the differences and distinctives of each denomination. I am a member of a smaller denomination and was not raised reformed or presbyterian so I do not know much about either denomination. I am looking forward to learning about each. Thank you brothers.

OPC is like a record of Chopin's greatest hits.

PCA is like an MP3 of Casting Crowns.

This says nothing of the merits of either format or content

Cheers,

 

[jfschultz]

As to the question in the OP, one difference between the OPC and the PCA is that the PCA got to keep its name after being founded:

...On June 11, 1936, Machen and a group of conservative ministers, elders, and laymen met in Philadelphia to form the Presbyterian Church of America (not to be confused with the Presbyterian Church in America which was organized some forty years later). The PCUSA filed suit against the fledgling denomination for their choice of name, and in 1939, the denomination adopted a new name as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

The PCA did have a name change. It was organized in 1973 as the National Presbyterian Church. After receiving a communication from the National Presbyterian Church's session in Washington D.C., the name was changed at the 1974 GA.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

As to the question in the OP, one difference between the OPC and the PCA is that the PCA got to keep its name after being founded:

...On June 11, 1936, Machen and a group of conservative ministers, elders, and laymen met in Philadelphia to form the Presbyterian Church of America (not to be confused with the Presbyterian Church in America which was organized some forty years later). The PCUSA filed suit against the fledgling denomination for their choice of name, and in 1939, the denomination adopted a new name as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

The PCA did have a name change. It was organized in 1973 as the National Presbyterian Church. After receiving a communication from the National Presbyterian Church's session in Washington D.C., the name was changed at the 1974 GA.

That's why this is the best Reformed board on the Net. I didn't know that! Thanks for the info. OK, let me re-state that they got to keep the name PCA after they were told to give up the NPC name. By 1973, the PCUSA probably didn't care any more that a conservative denomination might be confused with them.

 

[Pilgrim]

For the uninitiated, please note that Dr. Clark's definition of fundamentalism is far different than what most other people would recognize as fundamentalism.

I think we could be a bit more charitable to Dr. Clark. Even though Machen was opposed to the anti-intellectual movement within fundamentalist circles, he would have been classified by some at the time of the modernist controversy as a fundamentalist. Call him a fundamentalist with a small f. The OPC still publishes a book called The Fundamentalist Modernist Controversy. Even Rev. Winzer was willing to be identified as a fundamentalist in a certain sense of the term.

I think Dr. Clark's general observation of the OPC is not inaccurate. You've got much more of a generational connection to the founding of the OPC with some leaders in the OPC whose fathers or grandfathers helped found the OPC. I knew of at least one OPC that was still serving grape juice during the Lord's Supper because some of its members were part of the temperance movement.

I seriously doubt Dr. Clark intended to call the OPC more fundamentalist simply because it rains on a "Kine parade". If anything, that would hardly make much sense as Dr. Kline himself was an OPC minister and Westminster was started as the OPC seminary.

I know of an OPC that serves grape juice too (meaning only grape juice.) It's the one I'm a member of! I'm sure that many of OPC churches do, but I can't say from personal experience. I would be surprised if the majority of churches in the PCA didn't serve it as well. However, I think it's becoming more common now to offer both. That's what the PCA that I was attending does. I don't know what the other ones around here do.

Fundamentalism is something difficult to pin down, and can have different meanings depending on who is using the term. I'm also willing to be identified as one depending on who's doing the asking, although there are certainly aspects of Fundamentalism (capital F intended) that I would strongly disagree with. For many liberals and secularists, any Bible believing Christian is equated with being a fundamentalist. This can be seen with the "Conservative Resurgence" in the SBC, which liberals and moderates typically refer to as a "fundamentalist takeover," an idea that Fundamentalists scoff at since the SBC conservatives are much closer to the New Evangelicals that they have been denouncing for decades for their compromise. Most self identified Fundamentalists (i.e. those who identify with the fundamentalist movement) today will say you have to practice second degree separation and separate not only from those who are unorthodox, etc. but also have to separate from those who don't separate from the unorthodox, which includes John MacArthur, Al Mohler, etc. And then you get into all of the lifestyle issues that some like The World's Most Unusual University (BJU) harp on. That's certainly a much narrower usage of the term than what you had in the early 20th century with the fundamentalist-modernist controversy when everyone from William Jennings Bryan to Carl McIntire to J. Gresham Machen was considered a fundamentalist because they upheld what were considered to be cardinal doctrines of the faith and opposed the encroachment of higher criticism in the seminaries and churches. I remember an earlier thread where Dr. Clark said those in the PCUSA Confessing Movement weren't confessional but were basically fundamentalists. I'm sure what he meant was that they were fundamentalists in the early 20th century usage of the term, that they hold to a few fundamentals like the authority of the Bible, the Virgin Birth and the Deity of Christ but that they certainly aren't confessionalists in the way we would think of. And they're not fundamentalists in the way many think of today either since many won't even practice "first degree" separation from apostasy.

One way that it could be said that the OPC is more fundamentalist than the PCA is that it is certainly more separatist as a whole. This is largely and perhaps entirely because it is more self-consciously Reformed. It seems some in the PCA may see themselves as evangelicals first and Presbyterian second, and are more willing to work with non-Reformed ministries, whereas those in the OPC typically only cooperate with Reformed ministries, especially on the denominational level. For example, the OPC is active in NAPARC and an international Reformed ecumenical organization, but is not a member of the National Association of Evangelicals as the PCA is. This separatist stance is one thing that drew me to the OPC in the first place.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

As to the question in the OP, one difference between the OPC and the PCA is that the PCA got to keep its name after being founded:

...On June 11, 1936, Machen and a group of conservative ministers, elders, and laymen met in Philadelphia to form the Presbyterian Church of America (not to be confused with the Presbyterian Church in America which was organized some forty years later). The PCUSA filed suit against the fledgling denomination for their choice of name, and in 1939, the denomination adopted a new name as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

The PCA did have a name change. It was organized in 1973 as the National Presbyterian Church. After receiving a communication from the National Presbyterian Church's session in Washington D.C., the name was changed at the 1974 GA.

That is one thing I have never understood.

Why was "National Presbyterian Church" even chosen to begin with?

 

[Scott1]

Reading our history, I infer that, at that time, the PCA was formed from many (but not all) churches in the southern and border states. The idea would be the vision was to become a truly national church (like the PCUSA was becoming).

 

[SemperEruditio]

An example of a Northern Progressive PCA pastor that you wouldn't likely see in the OPC

Those reasons contribute to my passionate anti-gun stance. I do not believe Christians should support, own, or encourage the use of these weapons of individual destruction. I realize that the Supreme Court recently ruled that citizens have a constitutional right to bear hand guns. I simply disagree with that decision as I don’t believe it promotes the culture of life that we as believers should seek to cultivate in this country.

Blaque Tulip.com: Pro-Life and Pro-Glock?

So the OPC is pro-gun?

 

[TimV]

So the OPC is pro-gun?

The overwhelming majority of both OPC and PCA members hold to a right to keep firearms. Partly from the main culture from which they draw membership, partly from constitutionalist political views and I'm sure there are many other reasons. There are obviously exceptions, and those exceptions also come from different reasons. The OPC I go to now draws heavily on military personnel while the PCA I recently attended has as it's biggest demographic group college students, many of whom are from liberal backgrounds, but one of the Elders (currently on sabbatical from the Session) is addressing the issue by organising hunting trips.

 

[SemperEruditio]

So the OPC is pro-gun?

The overwhelming majority of both OPC and PCA members hold to a right to keep firearms. Partly from the main culture from which they draw membership, partly from constitutionalist political views and I'm sure there are many other reasons. There are obviously exceptions, and those exceptions also come from different reasons. The OPC I go to now draws heavily on military personnel while the PCA I recently attended has as it's biggest demographic group college students, many of whom are from liberal backgrounds, but one of the Elders (currently on sabbatical from the Session) is addressing the issue by organising hunting trips.

So then would a member of the PCA not drawn from the main culture really be a good example as to who you would not likely see in the OPC? After all you would not expect to see this "Northern Progressive" Pastor even in the PCA so why state that you would not expect to see him in the OPC? You would not expect to see him in either based on the fact he does represent the "main" culture.

As far as hunting versus hand gun ownership those are not the same issue. Owning a Glock to "protect" the family versus a rifle to hunt is not the same issue. Not sure whether or not you read the blog but he makes a point about the dichotomy of being pro-life and yet pro-gun. The same issue presents itself when a pro-choice person lobbies to eradicate the death penalty.

 

[TimV]

Not sure whether or not you read the blog but he makes a point about the dichotomy of being pro-life and yet pro-gun. The same issue presents itself when a pro-choice person lobbies to eradicate the death penalty.

I did read the blog, and the point about this so called dichotomy is the main reason I posted it here. Most PCA and OPC Elders are familiar enough with Reformed theology that anyone who sees a dichotomy between being anti abortion and killing an intruder is written off as unlearned.

The current Roman Catholic philosophy that one is inconsistant being both anti abortion and pro death penalty is a twisting of Scripture that very, very few knowledgeable Reformed folk agree with. My personal experience is that positions that are far out in left field are less common in the OPC than the PCA.

When you read

The handguns manufactured and sold in this country today are designed and built for one purpose and one purpose only; namely the destruction of human life. Thus in my view they have no place and can serve no constructive purpose in a society that strives to value life.

and read this from Exodus 22

2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens [a] after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed.

you've got your choice whether to believe this Northern Progressive or the simple common sense of Holy Writ.