When do you tithe?

[panta dokimazete]

Interesting read

 

[DavidCPorter]

My wife and I have always tithed weekly. Usually we try to give a tenth of our gross income before tax. We are also free to give as the Lord enables and directs.

 

[KMK]

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Tithing is different than giving. People tithe because they believe that %10 already belongs to God.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Therefore, as a tither, I would say that 2 Cor 9:7 has nothing to do with tithing. It has everything to do with giving which I also believe in.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

My wife and I have always tithed weekly. Usually we try to give a tenth of our gross income before tax. We are also free to give as the Lord enables and directs.

The problem with taxing before tax is what happens if the tax-locusts consume 90% of your wages. In such a case, your tithe would actually be your whole income, rather than 10% of it.

 

[KMK]

My wife and I have always tithed weekly. Usually we try to give a tenth of our gross income before tax. We are also free to give as the Lord enables and directs.

The problem with taxing before tax is what happens if the tax-locusts consume 90% of your wages. In such a case, your tithe would actually be your whole income, rather than 10% of it.

I tithe on my net income. But then I tithe on my refund.

Here is something I have been mulling over...

The OT Law of tithing stated that %10 of the 'increase' was the Lord's. What entails 'increase'? Does the increase of your vineyard include the cost of seed and fertilizer and a new pair of pruning shears? If you spent more on your grove of olive trees than you brought in, how could that be considered an 'increase'?

Shouldn't we be calculating our tithe based on the net income after expenses?

 

[ericfromcowtown]

I tithe on my net income. But then I tithe on my refund.

Here is something I have been mulling over...

The OT Law of tithing stated that %10 of the 'increase' was the Lord's. What entails 'increase'? Does the increase of your vineyard include the cost of seed and fertilizer and a new pair of pruning shears? If you spent more on your grove of olive trees than you brought in, how could that be considered an 'increase'?

Shouldn't we be calculating our tithe based on the net income after expenses?

I also tithe based on net and I tithe my tax refund. I know that many have good arguments for tithing off gross, though. I honestly don't even know what my gross monthly salary is, only what's left over to provide for the family once the thiefs, I mean government, gets their hands on the rest.

 

[ChristopherPaul]

I feel my family should tithe weekly on Gross wages and we have no right directing where that money is spent; we only give it to the church and leave it in her charge for it is hers to begin with (i.e. the LORDS). Then after tithe we can give freely according to our discretion be that to missions, deacons, etc.

 

[DavidCPorter]

My wife and I have always tithed weekly. Usually we try to give a tenth of our gross income before tax. We are also free to give as the Lord enables and directs.

The problem with taxing before tax is what happens if the tax-locusts consume 90% of your wages. In such a case, your tithe would actually be your whole income, rather than 10% of it.

Daniel, I'm glad I don't live in Saintfield. Over here in Dromara we are taxed at a much lower rate. Seriously, the taxes we pay out of our income are no different to taxes we pay when we buy goods with VAT added or fuel for the car. Why should the tax paid directly by my employer but different from other taxes? My tithe is for the Lord and he has first claim on my salary. Payments by way of taxes and just payments that I make just all other necessary calls on my money. The Lord must take first place not second in my life.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

My wife and I have always tithed weekly. Usually we try to give a tenth of our gross income before tax. We are also free to give as the Lord enables and directs.

The problem with taxing before tax is what happens if the tax-locusts consume 90% of your wages. In such a case, your tithe would actually be your whole income, rather than 10% of it.

Daniel, I'm glad I don't live in Saintfield. Over here in Dromara we are taxed at a much lower rate. Seriously, the taxes we pay out of our income are no different to taxes we pay when we buy goods with VAT added or fuel for the car. Why should the tax paid directly by my employer but different from other taxes? My tithe is for the Lord and he has first claim on my salary. Payments by way of taxes and just payments that I make just all other necessary calls on my money. The Lord must take first place not second in my life.

I agree that the Lord must take first place in our lives, though sadly due to the tax locusts stealing our money it means that we have less money to tithe. The problem is though, that if someone was taxed at the 90% rate I mentioned - and prior to Margaret Thatcher that was the rate of income tax for high earners - they would actually have no income left if they tithed at a gross rate. The real problem is that in our Socialist society, Caesar thinks he has first claim on our salary, rather than God...but more about this in my next book.

 

[BJClark]

Daniel Ritchie;

I agree that the Lord must take first place in our lives, though sadly due to the tax locusts stealing our money it means that we have less money to tithe. The problem is though, that if someone was taxed at the 90% rate I mentioned - and prior to Margaret Thatcher that was the rate of income tax for high earners - they would actually have no income left if they tithed at a gross rate. The real problem is that in our Socialist society, Caesar thinks he has first claim on our salary, rather than God...but more about this in my next book.

I don't know Daniel, sounds like you guys to need to have a "Tea Party" or something over there..but then the way things are going here, we may need to have another one...taxes no matter where you live seem to be high..

your taxed on purchases of certain items then your taxed again each time you use the item...say a TV or even a water hose, your taxed when you buy the item, then taxes are added to your bill each time you use the items...grrrrr...

But back on topic, I'm all for tithing each payday...doesn't matter if it's monthly, weekly or bi-weekly...you give it when you get it..but then I'm also for giving offerings as well, beyond the tithe as the Lord provides...

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Tithing, therefore, removes guilt-manipulation.

So does discernment.

But God haas not allowed His character (the Law) to be based on subjective "discernment" by fallen creatures who don't know better, or believe they have "heard from God". He bases it (and everything else we do) on His spoken word already written down.

 

[panta dokimazete]

Matt - does my earlier statement not align with your thought?

True discernment is objective - based on the Word and Spirit of Truth.

 

[DavidCPorter]

Daniel it looks like you going to keep me reading. I have not finished your previous book and you are ready to issue another one!

I am never happy to use terms like "tax locusts." I have been paying income tax for over 40 years and I do not see it as a burden. I have never been in the higher rate of taxation so I have not had to pay at 90% or even 40% but if I did I would be earning over £40,000 a year taxable at the lower rate. I think I could still tithe. The Lord richly provides for all our needs and we have never been short of money because we tithe.

Let me know when the next book is available.

 

[Hunter]

I tithe in the middle of the month, but I set it aside at the beginning (I'm paid once at the end of each month). Habit, I guess.

 

[KMK]

Bottom line is that income tax (and property tax) are not Biblical ideas and they clash with the truly Biblical idea of tithing. Therefore, tithing in an income tax world is made problematic, but not impossible.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Daniel it looks like you going to keep me reading. I have not finished your previous book and you are ready to issue another one!

I am never happy to use terms like "tax locusts." I have been paying income tax for over 40 years and I do not see it as a burden. I have never been in the higher rate of taxation so I have not had to pay at 90% or even 40% but if I did I would be earning over £40,000 a year taxable at the lower rate. I think I could still tithe. The Lord richly provides for all our needs and we have never been short of money because we tithe.

Let me know when the next book is available.

I am not discouraging you from giving the extra-money, but I would say that 10% of your gross income includes a free-will offering and the tithe can only be on your net increase. Moreover, if the state taxes a ministers income, is that not Erastianism? And is the state not stealing your congregation's tithe money, and thus stealing directly from God? You see, I only believe in a head-tax, not a graduated income tax, thus I like to call the latter the tax-locusts (in modern speak that would be the Inland Revenue). The next book will be out within the next six weeks are so.

Bottom line is that income tax (and property tax) are not Biblical ideas and they clash with the truly Biblical idea of tithing. Therefore, tithing in an income tax world is made problematic, but not impossible.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I have never been in the higher rate of taxation so I have not had to pay at 90% or even 40% but if I did I would be earning over £40,000 a year taxable at the lower rate. .

Mr. Porter being from a poverty-stricken place like Dromara you get away with (comparatively) low tax, people from an opulent society like Saintfield (where being a millionaire is the equivalent of a pauper) cannot relate to such a scenario.

 

[DavidCPorter]

Daniel, beware my dear brother you cannot serve God and mamon! Why not sell everything, give to the poor (in Dromara) and follow Christ. I think that is what Jesus would say to rich young man like you!!!!

We must get together soon,

Every blessing,

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Daniel, beware my dear brother you cannot serve God and mamon! Why not sell everything, give to the poor (in Dromara) and follow Christ. I think that is what Jesus would say to rich young man like you!!!!

We must get together soon,

Every blessing,

Saintfield is full of Job's - men blessed with great riches - the poor in Dromara are undeserving.

 

[Archlute]

Tithing, therefore, removes guilt-manipulation.

So does discernment.

But God haas not allowed His character (the Law) to be based on subjective "discernment" by fallen creatures who don't know better, or believe they have "heard from God". He bases it (and everything else we do) on His spoken word already written down.

The law of God cannot be equated with His character in such a simple manner, in as much as God's character includes attributes such as wisdom and grace that, strictly speaking, cannot be categorized as an element of law. We can, however, take a gift of God's Holy Spirit (such as wisdom), and by looking at kingdom needs, family needs, projected and real levels of income, and the like, make decisions regarding our giving. Wisdom will include a study of things in Scripture, but it is more than that as well. I think that what was meant by the word discernment above, would be co-equal with that of wisdom.

in my opinion, and that of other Reformed ministers besides, the tithing laws of the Old Covenant were ceremonial and social, and passed with the theocratic government of Israel. New Covenant giving is to be accomplished, as Paul writes, w/o compulsion, and from the joy of a redeemed heart. The OC tithing laws are not set forth as a standard of giving in any NT writing, and (as one of my OT profs pointed out) nobody who holds to tithing today really gives according to the larger OC system of tithing, which would be around 30% total of one's income when all put together.

 

[etexas]

So does discernment.

But God haas not allowed His character (the Law) to be based on subjective "discernment" by fallen creatures who don't know better, or believe they have "heard from God". He bases it (and everything else we do) on His spoken word already written down.

The law of God cannot be equated with His character in such a simple manner, in as much as God's character includes attributes such as wisdom and grace that, strictly speaking, cannot be categorized as an element of law. We can, however, take a gift of God's Holy Spirit (such as wisdom), and by looking at kingdom needs, family needs, projected and real levels of income, and the like, make decisions regarding our giving. Wisdom will include a study of things in Scripture, but it is more than that as well. I think that what was meant by the word discernment above, would be co-equal with that of wisdom.

in my opinion, and that of other Reformed ministers besides, the tithing laws of the Old Covenant were ceremonial and social, and passed with the theocratic government of Israel. New Covenant giving is to be accomplished, as Paul writes, w/o compulsion, and from the joy of a redeemed heart. The OC tithing laws are not set forth as a standard of giving in any NT writing, and (as one of my OT profs pointed out) nobody who holds to tithing today really gives according to the larger OC system of tithing, which would be around 30% total of one's income when all put together.

Wow, I always thought tithing was still "required".

 

[panta dokimazete]

Wait, I can hear it in the distance - the steady cry:

antinomian! antinomian! antinomian!



(BTW - I know folks are passionate about this...not trying to be disrespectful.)

 

[etexas]

Wait, I can hear it in the distance - the steady cry:

antinomian! antinomian! antinomian!



(BTW - I know folks are passionate about this...not trying to be disrespectful.)

And to think.....I only started this thread to see when people gave, you know how threads are sometimes you get 2 posts and then you post one that you do not think will generate any intrest and BOOM!

 

[KMK]

in my opinion, and that of other Reformed ministers besides, the tithing laws of the Old Covenant were ceremonial and social, and passed with the theocratic government of Israel. New Covenant giving is to be accomplished, as Paul writes, w/o compulsion, and from the joy of a redeemed heart. The OC tithing laws are not set forth as a standard of giving in any NT writing, and (as one of my OT profs pointed out) nobody who holds to tithing today really gives according to the larger OC system of tithing, which would be around 30% total of one's income when all put together.

Wow, I don't remember him asking me... Actually, as I pointed out earlier, tithing is not the same thing as 'giving' in the mind of a tither.

Also, %30 is not totally accurate as one tithe (the Festival tithe) was to be used on one's own family, eating and drinking before the Lord. Also, the Poor tithe was collected only 1 year out of 3 was it not?

 

[etexas]

So now I am just confused are we supposed to tithe or not?

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

So now I am just confused are we supposed to tithe or not?

Here is a question: why do Christians have such a problem tithing to God, when they pay much more than a tithe (40-60% of their money) to Caesar?

Does not Abraham's tithing to Melchizedek prove that tithing was not just for Israel?

 

[etexas]

So now I am just confused are we supposed to tithe or not?

Here is a question: why do Christians have such a problem tithing to God, when they pay much more than a tithe (40-60% of their money) to Caesar?

Does not Abraham's tithing to Melchizedek prove that tithing was not just for Israel?

When I was an Anglican my Priest used that as "type" of tithing. That is why I thought it was a perpetual thing.