Which Law was a Guardian/Tutor unto Christ? (Gal 3:23-29)

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Fred,

Technically you can obey the law perfectly. But like I said, your "will" is exercised and you are a man (not God).

Actually, technically you cannot obey the law perfectly. Because of the presence of remaining sin, it is impossible to obey prefectly this side of glory. The Confession is VERY clear about that.

Originally posted by Texas AggieThe New Covenant does provide you with the means to obey the law perfectly. Does a partaker not have the Spirit which is absolutely perfect. Is the law not absolutely perfect?

Partaking of the Spirit is not the same as perfect obedience. That is the point of Romans 7:

Romans 7:12-25 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The Spirit perfectly brings to our mind our inablilty to obey, and as regenerate we are pricked by that, and desire further sanctification. The unbeliever is not.

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Thanks for the WCF examples; however, they all support what I am saying. Only Christ is perfect in obedience because He is God. Man is a fallen creature and not perfect.

After regeneration, our "will" is still present and we choose to sin (just as Adam willfully chose to disobey the law). We still choose to disregard the law and the Spirit. The hatred of sin is part of one's growing in spiritual maturity (providing they are being directed and taught by the Spirit).

But the WCF does not say what you were saying. I think I understand better (and agree with) your paragraph above, but not:

You can obey the law perfectly as a regenerated man via the provisions of the New Covenant. Obedience to the law is now an exercise of your will.

The New Covenant provides you with the equipment to obey the law perfectly, because God indwelling is absolutely perfect.

I have said many, many times that precision is essential in theology. Your two statements above are false and have never been espoused by the most ardent defenders of the 3rd use of the law. Warfield is a prime example of this.

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
We are to be brought up to perfection (growing in perfection). I see no perfection until we are at the throne (then we are perfect). But to say we have no responsibility for obedience is ludicrous. We have a responsibility to be diligent against sin and the world. We are to be separated.

When we relegate all our obedience to Christ, we tend not to pay attention to what God expects of us. His law is still binding upon us. Although the demand of the law which requires your eternal death has been paid, the demand for your obedience to the law has not been nullified.

Again, precision, precision. We absolutely have to obey God. The WCF clearly states that the moral law is binding on the Christian. The problem is when you use terms like "required" and "requirement" and (I believe) even a reference to final justification. These are statements that have no place with the gospel. Obedience is a necessary consequence and evidence of justification, not a requirement.

I am not arguing for a lower standard of the law. If you doubt me - listen to a few of my sermons on 1 Peter, including one on The Call to Holiness (http://www.tulipfaith.com/sermons/1Peter/Fred Greco - 06 - The Call To Holiness.mp3)

But we have to be exceedingly careful how we describe the law, especially since the error of Shepherdism is rampant.

Please continue to hold up the importance of the law. But be careful when you do.

[Edited on 8/17/2005 by fredtgreco]

 

[Texas Aggie]

Thanks for all the info guys (Larry, Fred & Meg). I appreciate your time and responses concerning this issue. The way I see (understand) this is:

Man is the only imperfect element of the parties involved in the New Covenant. All God's provisions under the terms of the New Covenant are absolutely perfect in design and application; therefore, the terms allow for absolute perfection. The initiator of the covenant is perfect as well as the provisions He has made for man.

A regenerated man sins against God as a matter of choice, not because he lacks the provision of God's perfect redemption. The mere fact that man is involved shows imperfection (towards sanctification) in this world. You are yet to be fully sanctified before God. Man is yet to be fully sanctified; this is why there is no perfection on "this side of Glory." I stated much earlier that this would occur probably at one's death.

The demand for obedience to the law still remains.... and yes, God expects perfect obedience from His creation. Perfect obedience to the law has always been His desire. Absolute obedience is the requirement because God is absolute. Fortunately, He has made provision for our transgression (both pre and post regenerate). This was a decree by God from before the foundation.

"You must be perfect" is a commandment just as any other. This is part of your separation from the world. I do not classify the regenerate as sinners. A regenerated person is just what the word means... one is regenerated from one state to another.

You are now a new creature in Christ, not a sinner. You may war with the flesh and temptation, but you are not a perpetual sinner (if so, this is a false witness).

It is better to place the blame on self as opposed to your nature (especially since we have a new nature). It is more appropriate to say "I sinned because I chose to do so despite the law and the Spirit." Own up to your infraction and don't pass the buck as Adam tried to.

It is not a dream to please God by obedience to His law (this is merely an expectation of His Kingdom). His law establishes specific demands on partakers of His covenant (i.e. thou shalt not commit adultery).

His law, because it is provided to the believer in conjunction with His covenant, involves a promise to the party who enters into His eternal provision. The promise is always initiated by the covenant giver (who is God) and calls for two conditional results: God´s blessings and His cursings. The condition of the covenant is simply obedience. Obedience to the law is His will for His elect.

Now, you have a choice, based on the condition of obedience, to determine the outcome of your daily life. I'm not talking about your justification, I'm talking about your walk with the Spirit. You will either be cursed or blessed. You will either be chastened or live a life of rest and peace according to the law and the Spirit. The demand for obedience to the law still remains a condition of the covenant. The choice is yours.

Obedience to the law is not a matter of pleasing God for myself (or my own edification). Obedience to the law is a matter of pleasing God for Himself because it is an expectation of all His creation. You ask who's work is acceptable to God?.... God can only provide the means for that which satisfies Himself (in this case, the righteousness of Christ). But again, there is more. He has also provided the way for His people to obey His law. God does not nullify His law or demand for perfect obedience from His creation.

Never said partaking of the Spirit equates to perfect obedience.... again man is involved along with his "will." The Spirit provides direction for the believer and the Spirit will not lead to anything contrary to the law. Man chooses to disregard the Spirit and the Spirit will allow the infraction. The Spirit brings to your mind the ability to obey, not the idea that you can not obey and it is OK to sin (this is not of God). The Spirit even gives you a way out or means to resist the temptation. You ultimately choose to disobey saying "I'm gonna do my way, not yours God." This is how you are involved in the New Covenant.

Law and Grace are not opposed to one another. There is absolutely nothing fearful of God's law. Under grace, the life of the believer has been satisfied via Christ and the demand for your eternal death has been paid. The demand for your obedience is simply an expectation of the Lawgiver.

 

[Larry Hughes]

Matt,

Thanks for your kind closing words. Forgive me if I misunderstood you.

Your Brother In Christ,

Larry

 

[fredtgreco]

This is why the board is good. Theology is hard - we want to protect grace, yet affirm the importance of the law. It is hard to keep that tension in balance, but it is Biblical.

 

[Texas Aggie]

Thanks guys... I love this site and have learned so much from all the posts. Will be back in a few days (going on a shot trip).

Take care.

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Thanks guys... I love this site and have learned so much from all the posts. Will be back in a few days (going on a shot trip).

Take care.

Have a good trip, Matt.

I'm sorry that I was a bit flippant in my early post in this thread. It was a good discussion.