Death

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Oneal

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I recently had a loved one die. When this happened I did some research on what death is like (Don't do this, please), and found a number of people who died and were brought back reported that there was nothing. Basically, they said it was like dreamless sleep. I am a really looking for a way to resolve this apparent problem. Here is an example:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ing-to-a-guy-who-died-for-a-bit-10068959.html

While I refuse to give up my faith, stories like the one above cause some concern. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you and God Bless
 
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The article linked above deals with clinical death. That is not the same thing, I think, as actual death from which the body does not wake up. The conclusion of the professing atheist in the article, that the "blackness" he experienced reveals that there's no such thing as God or heaven or hell, has no bearing on Christian theology.
 
First of all, thank you for the quick responses. I appreciate the help. As for my Theology, this does not in any way deter me. Instead, it just brings up a concern that I want an answer for; for myself, but even more so for other people who may ask me in the future.

Again, thank you for the responses.
 
Brother, don't let this bother you. There are many many other stories of people who say they die and they went to heaven (or hell). Whether any of these stories are true or not, the point is that many people claim to have spiritual experiences.

We hope for and have faith for the reason that we cannot yet see what is to come. If I were you, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of nothing after death. That is a terrible thought, and one that will never be proven by anyone now living. As Colossians 3 says, set your mind and your heart on the things above. Rest assured that the glories of heaven are real, and that God who promised them in the Scriptures, cannot lie.

It won't do anyone any good to listen to some random person's opinion about their experience of death. There are so many factors and variables to consider.
 
We usually hear stories about people having NDE (near death experience) heading to some "light" or "bliss." Less often are voiced stories about emptiness (like you relate). But, they clearly exist. And, there are stories that are highly negative experiences, and since these are not mass-pop-spiritual fodder, they get little press today. But they too are reported.

As little as the latter are reported (or popularized) for all we know, they might be much more common than the others; but in the nature of their cases, those who have bad experiences are probably even more disinclined to relate them to others, in comparison to those who have pleasant or boring ones. If you have an NDE that is terrifying, and all the NDEs you've heard about before are "heavenly," are you likely to tell the people around you: "I thought I was halfway or more to hell?"

In any case, experiences cannot speak more reliably than divine revelation. "We have a more sure word of prophecy," writes Peter (who saw the glory of the heavenly realm and heard the Voice on the mountain). He did not trust in his OWN experience more than the knowledge he had of truth by the Word of God.
 
Oneal said:
I recently had a loved one die. When this happened I did some research on what death is like (Don't do this, please), and found a number of people who died and were brought back reported that there was nothing. Basically, they said it was like dreamless sleep. I am a really looking for a way to resolve this apparent problem. Here is an example:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ing-to-a-guy-who-died-for-a-bit-10068959.html

While I refuse to give up my faith, stories like the one above cause some concern. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you and God Bless
Click to expand...

Most reports of NDEs (near-death-experiences) of people who were clinically dead report the exact opposite. Of course, we don't prove our faith by tallying stats, but still.
https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Death...r=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=moreland+death+afterlife
 
Concerning the article linked in the OP. I would not give it much weight. The bible clearly describes atheist as "Fools". Secondly, one of the author's supposed NDEs was from overdosing on pain medication. Now I could be wrong (as I have never over-dosed), but I do not think I would be very trusting of anything I experienced after an over-dose on pain-killers.

Similarly, my own grandmother was technically dead for 2 solid minutes before being brought back by the paramedics. They keep her sedated for 2 days as they slowly brought her back to full consciousness in order to help reduce the likelihood of brain damage. When she was brought back she had lost 2 full weeks of memories. (Side note: she actually forgot about all the wedding gifts she had bought me, which she found 2 months later and was not sure why she bought them.) Guess what...she is still a convinced Presbyterian and loves the Lord! She did not temporarily die from an OD or from a car crash either. Her heart failed while she was working her desk job. Further, she did not try to write some book about lights, tunnels, blackness, or heaven is for real. She trust the Word of God. I trust Paul's words over a pill-abusing atheist's experience any day!

To be absent from the body is to be with Christ. If this still does trouble you bother, then go back to the Word, remind yourself of the promises of our Covenant Lord.:detective:
 
As an aside, it seems likely that Lazarus did not go to heaven when he died prior to being raised back to life. Imagine the disappointment after being in heaven a few days and then coming back to this body?
 
i sometimes have dreamless sleep and feel like I died until my alarm wakes me up
 
timfost said:
As an aside, it seems likely that Lazarus did not go to heaven when he died prior to being raised back to life. Imagine the disappointment after being in heaven a few days and then coming back to this body?
Click to expand...

As an aside, I believe Lazarus was in heaven before he was raised from the dead. :)
 
Oneal said:
Corrected to dreamless sleep
Click to expand...

I liked the image of a sleepless dream. Have you ever been so tired you'd start to hallucinate?

As for the experiences, a bit of reading on hypoxemia (low blood oxygen) and dream perception might point to a lot of what people sense in an NDE.
 
Atheists ought to know by now that if you've nearly died, it pays a lot better to write a book claiming there really is something. And it must be fantastic and colorful.

"It was all just an empty black void" doesn't sell too many bestsellers, after all!
 
This is why the doctrine of the soul is so important. If I am not my body, then it is metaphysically possible that I survive my body.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
What does "heaven" even mean?
Click to expand...

In the context of the conversation it is a place where the soul resides when the body is dead. I understand some believe time and space cease to exist after death or in the new heavens, though I would disagree with that also with me being a creature.
 
earl40 said:
In the context of the conversation it is a place where the soul resides when the body is dead. I understand some believe time and space cease to exist after death or in the new heavens, though I would disagree with that also with me being a creature.
Click to expand...

So far, so good.

Part of the dififculty is the nature of the soul. We are tempted to think my soul is *in* my body. Yet, if I lose my arm, I don't lose 1/20th of my soul.

Therefore, the soul's connection to the body is not one of spatial location. So that raises the question, "Where is the soul?"
 
BayouHuguenot said:
So far, so good.

Part of the dififculty is the nature of the soul. We are tempted to think my soul is *in* my body. Yet, if I lose my arm, I don't lose 1/20th of my soul.

Therefore, the soul's connection to the body is not one of spatial location. So that raises the question, "Where is the soul?"
Click to expand...

Our souls are with our body while alive, and in heaven (or hell) when the body is dead, is enough explanation for me. So far as it not being spatial, I believe it is somewhere therefore spatially existent. Such is the thing with any creature.
 
earl40 said:
Our souls are with our body while alive, and in heaven (or hell) when the body is dead, is enough explanation for me. So far as it not being spatial, I believe it is somewhere therefore spatially existent. Such is the thing with any creature.
Click to expand...

Is the soul spread out through the body? Or it is located in one place? That's why no defender of substance dualism in the modern age says that the soul is spatially located in the body.
 
Contra_Mundum said:
We usually hear stories about people having NDE (near death experience) heading to some "light" or "bliss." Less often are voiced stories about emptiness (like you relate). But, they clearly exist. And, there are stories that are highly negative experiences, and since these are not mass-pop-spiritual fodder, they get little press today. But they too are reported.

As little as the latter are reported (or popularized) for all we know, they might be much more common than the others; but in the nature of their cases, those who have bad experiences are probably even more disinclined to relate them to others, in comparison to those who have pleasant or boring ones. If you have an NDE that is terrifying, and all the NDEs you've heard about before are "heavenly," are you likely to tell the people around you: "I thought I was halfway or more to hell?"

In any case, experiences cannot speak more reliably than divine revelation. "We have a more sure word of prophecy," writes Peter (who saw the glory of the heavenly realm and heard the Voice on the mountain). He did not trust in his OWN experience more than the knowledge he had of truth by the Word of God.
Click to expand...
May I underscore the importance of what is said here about divine revelation? The scriptures are the ONLY way to triangulate your perspective and understand what happens as one passes from this life to the next and exists, for a time, awaiting a glorified body and the new earth. In the end, the scriptures are all we have, and our heavenly father has deemed that enough.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
Is the soul spread out through the body? Or it is located in one place? That's why no defender of substance dualism in the modern age says that the soul is spatially located in the body.
Click to expand...

The soul of a person is the real person, be it with or without body, and that person is always located somewhere. Our Lord's human soul was located in heaven between the cross and the resurrection.
 
earl40 said:
The soul of a person is the real person, be it with or without body, and that person is always located somewhere. Our Lord's human soul was located in heaven between the cross and the resurrection.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is accurate. we can't say the person is the soul. If we apply that to Christology, then Jesus has two persons (since mind is usually equal to soul).
 
Oneal said:
I did some research on what death is like (Don't do this, please), and found a number of people who died and were brought back reported that there was nothing.
Click to expand...

I am of base here? But doesn't Hebrews 9:27 have the answer?
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
 
earl40 said:
The soul of a person is the real person, be it with or without body, and that person is always located somewhere. Our Lord's human soul was located in heaven between the cross and the resurrection.
Click to expand...
The difficulty here is the word "real," which cones out of the Greek worldview and fed Gnostic thought.

The physical body and the soul are equally real.
 
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