What would you say to someone (such as myself), who is theologically persuaded that it is necessary to keep the Sabbath, but literally live in an environment where Sundays are necessary to be worked on, in just about every field to be employed in? What happens when you absolutely have to work the Sabbath, or every other Sabbath, and simply cannot find a whole 24 hours on the Lord's Day (or even Saturday for that matter) to not work? How do you counsel people in those instances? Let's assume that you can't quit your job, and there are no deals that can be worked out with your employer.
To Sabbatarians: What is the Pastoral response to those who can't keep the Sabbath?
- Thread starter Myson
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Maybe I don't know of any other kind. This isn't something like doing the lawn or cleaning the garage or at home working on a presentation that could wait. Those are all tasks that can wait until another time that isn't the Sabbath.
I mean to say that the job in which you are employed requires you come in and work on Sunday, and let us also assume that you live in an area where everywhere but the bank is open on Sundays (and I'm certain that not everyone in the town is called by God to be bankers). What do you do when it is literally an impossibility to keep the Sabbath and rest, but you are forced according to your situation to work on the Sabbath?
Parakaleo
Puritan Board Sophomore
Works of true necessity are authorized by Christ and reinforced through his teaching that the Sabbath was made for man. God gave the Sabbath as a gift for man's health and well-being, physically and spiritually. Doing any work that, if NOT done, would directly lead to the harm of men, is therefore in keeping with Sabbath observance.
What can never be in keeping with Sabbath observance is money-making ventures, driven by hope of worldly increase. This flies in the face of the Fourth Commandment and is actually base and unnatural, since God has woven the Sabbath command into the moral fabric of the universe. All men must cease from their worldly labors and recognize their Creator one day in seven, or else they do what is unnatural.
What can never be in keeping with Sabbath observance is money-making ventures, driven by hope of worldly increase. This flies in the face of the Fourth Commandment and is actually base and unnatural, since God has woven the Sabbath command into the moral fabric of the universe. All men must cease from their worldly labors and recognize their Creator one day in seven, or else they do what is unnatural.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
My counsel would be to find other work-one that would allow u to be present in church on the sabbath day. I would be realistic. That being, it takes time to find a new job, but you should be actively pursuing a new position for the sake of yourself and family.
Works of necessity: There is a widening line to what this actually means in this age. For example, is it necessary that you work on the sabbath? yes, u need to pay bills, feed your family etc. This is the only day your employer is providing. So, it is necessary.
I don't believe that this is how the term is defined-at least, not properly. W of N are jobs like police officers, hospital workers, doctors, firemen, etc. However, I believe this is abused in our age as well; like there are Christians in positions as such and they accept these days without any argument. They are passive participants. It should be the goal of all believers to let our employers know that we are commanded not to work on the Sabbath day and if there is anyone else on the staff willing to work the day, it would benefit your spiritual need. We should not just accept the request to work the day just because it is necessary-what if you were told that u have to work all Sabbath days? Would that be acceptable?
Works of mercy: If you are doing a work of mercy, should u accept payment for your mercy?
Works of necessity: There is a widening line to what this actually means in this age. For example, is it necessary that you work on the sabbath? yes, u need to pay bills, feed your family etc. This is the only day your employer is providing. So, it is necessary.
I don't believe that this is how the term is defined-at least, not properly. W of N are jobs like police officers, hospital workers, doctors, firemen, etc. However, I believe this is abused in our age as well; like there are Christians in positions as such and they accept these days without any argument. They are passive participants. It should be the goal of all believers to let our employers know that we are commanded not to work on the Sabbath day and if there is anyone else on the staff willing to work the day, it would benefit your spiritual need. We should not just accept the request to work the day just because it is necessary-what if you were told that u have to work all Sabbath days? Would that be acceptable?
Works of mercy: If you are doing a work of mercy, should u accept payment for your mercy?
Ed Walsh
Puritan Board Graduate
Here are several Questions and Answers from Fisher's Catechism:
Q. 3. What should we rest from on the Sabbath?
A. Even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days; or, which is the same thing, from all servile work, Neh. 13:15-23.
Q. 4. What is it that makes a work servile?
A. If it is done for our worldly gain, profit, and livelihood; or if, by prudent management, it might have been done the week before; or, if it be of such a kind as may be delayed till after the Sabbath, Ex. 34:21 — “Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest: in shearing* time, and in harvest thou shalt rest.”
Exodus 34:21 (ESV) (for clarity)
"Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In *plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.
"Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In *plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.
Q. 5. Why does God enjoin rest on the Sabbath so peremptorily and particularly, in the time of ploughing and harvest?
A. Because in these seasons men are most keenly set upon their labour; and may be in the greatest hazard of grudging the time of the Sabbath for rest.
Q. 6. If the weather is unseasonable through the week, do not reaping and ingathering, in that case become works of necessity on the Sabbath?
A. By no means; because any unseasonableness of the weather that may happen, being common and general, proceeds only from the course of God’s ordinary providence, which we ought not to distrust, in regard of his promise, that, “While the earth remaineth, seed-time and harvest —shall not cease,” Gen. 8:22.
Q. 7. If a field of corn is in hazard of being carried away by the unexpected inundation of a river, is it lawful to endeavour the preservation of them upon the Sabbath?
A. Yes; because the dispensation is extraordinary; the case not common nor general; and the damage likewise in an ordinary way, irrecoverable.
Q. 8. Are Christians, under the New Testament, obliged to as strict an abstinence from worldly labour, as the Jews were under the Old?
A. Yes, surely; for moral duties being of unchangeable obligation, Christians must be bound to as strict a performance of them now, as the Jews were then, Psalm 19:9.
Theologically, I understand this position. But I think it is rather unrealistic in regards to our modern , secular system of capitalist productivity and employment. Such a definition, if strictly held to in a Western, rural context (such as mine in which employment is scarce to begin with) you may in effect be putting people out of any kind of labor at all, and thus effectively homeless.
I suppose that you may believe that there is simply no employment situation at all that exists that would force a person to have to work on the Lord's Day, that couldn't be immediately remedied by finding new work. I'm asking, assume that such a situation does exist (which it does for many people, especially low-skilled individuals who can find little to no work to begin with), and how, in light of such a situation, a person is able to honor the Sabbath? I will certainly concede that there are many today who simply prefer to work on the Sabbath, but excluding such people, what happens when you must or else you have no employment at all?
Parakaleo
Puritan Board Sophomore
First Table commandments outweigh Second Table. Period. I would rather starve than keep myself fed by laboring on the Sabbath, though I am quite certain God would not allow this to happen. Could anyone believe that a man who labors tirelessly six days a week at whatever his hand finds to do, but refrains for just one day in seven, would starve?
Ed Walsh
Puritan Board Graduate
Man is not a slave of the Sabbath, for, the Sabbath was made for man. (Mark 2:27) If such a case existed, I think work would be a necessity and the person could do the best they could on another day to keep a sabbath of sorts. But, the person in that situation should do all he can to find a different situation. ASAP
If he doesn't show up for work at the factory or restaurant, then most certainly. His employer will not care how faithful he is 6 days a week, he will note that he doesn't show up when scheduled, or when he is needed, and thus fire him, and most likely give him a terrible reference so that what little work he could qualify for as a low-skilled worker, he will be unable to find. Even more so if he is a police officer, fireman, prison guard, doctor, surgeon, or mental health worker (the latter of which I find myself) in which someone must be attentive at all times, rain, sleet, snow, Christmas, or Thanksgiving. I'm sure the latter examples could be lumped in with Acts of Ministry or service, but the former is the issue I am really struggling with.
While my former suggestion may seem like a hypothetical, living in a very rural area in which the vast majority of employment opportunities are for low-skilled workers, and all require someone to be working on Sundays, I would be more than happy to provide examples of men and women who must work on the Lord's Day, or their families don't eat, or they can't pay medical bills, or their home is foreclosed, or they lose their only means of transportation. Even more so, I know of those who have attempted to remain faithful to the Sabbath, and have been fired, blackballed, and subsequently left in poverty for extended periods of time until they were fortunate enough to find other work - which required Sunday labor. It just seems very easy to say we would rather starve than labor on the Sabbath when we are in professional ministry or are highly skilled and live in an environment that is sympathetic to our ideals and have never had to suffer through what others must in order to provide for their families, lest they be considered "worse than an unbeliever."
Adam Olive
Puritan Board Freshman
How do people respond to the situation where in the early church where something like 30%-40% of the population in the Roman empire were slaves and thus had to work seven days a week? Presumably the church reflected a similar percentage who were slaves.
Excellent question! Were slaves unfaithful (potentially under church discipline) because they were forced to work for their unbelieving masters?
That's a fair and helpful response. Thanks!
TheOldCourse
Puritan Board Sophomore
As others have said, first table concerns outweigh second table concerns. If one is truly unable to work due to their commitment to honor God's law rather than idleness, then they should be provided for by the diaconate. Ultimately, if it's their geographical setting that is limiting their options, they should move. There are low-skilled jobs in most places where one does not have to work on the Sabbath. I'm aware of a number of cases where low-skilled individuals have made their scruples known to potential employers and have still been hired. As for things like "police officer, fireman, prison guard, doctor, surgeon, or mental health worker", those are all works of necessity. Arrangements should be made such that the burden is shared and one doesn't work on every Lord's Day, but labor is lawful in those cases.
Ed Walsh
Puritan Board Graduate
No, they were not. Neither did the early Christians keep a First-day sabbath. I have read that the Jews continued to maintain a Seventh-day Sabbath while meeting on Sunday nights for their Christian gatherings. Remember Eutychus? (Acts 20:9) But, also remember that the Jews separated from the gentiles in the beginning until the Acts 15 council and the ministry of the Apostle Paul. The Christian Sabbath was not fully developed until afterward. But that does not mean it is not binding on later Christians. Jesus told them that he had many things yet to teach them through the Holy Spirit. (John 16:12-14) There was and is growth and progress over time.
OPC'n
Puritan Board Doctor
This has always been a hard one for me. I'm a Sabbatarian, and believe the Sabbaths need to be kept. I do feel for those who have jobs which are not of jobs of necessity. Luckily, I'm an RN so I have a job of necessity. I don't think it's right to ask someone else to work Sundays for you because God also commands that we don't permit others to work on the Sabbath. It's especially difficult if you don't have a trade (i.e. you work at Walmart or you're a waitress etc). I would encourage those people to try and go to college to get a trade where they either don't work on weekends or it's a trade of necessity. There are trades where you only have to go to school for a couple of months (i.e. CNA etc). I think with planning and hard work people can manage to keep the Sabbath in time when it comes to their job.
Working on the Lord's Day and not attending upon the worship of the Lord is the grossest violation of the fourth commandment from the plain words of it, as adultery is of the seventh. Coming to convictions about not working on the Lord's Day should be akin to one realizing they are in an unlawful marriage or some such. Both no doubt entail difficulties in attempting to come into conformity to God's law. So we should understand how bad it is that the Sabbath is so widely rejected that some are in difficulty finding work where violating this command is not required some way. There are circumstances like slavery where the abused are more excused in this matter, but since in this country we have the freedom to look for another job, we must do so some way, though it may be hard and take time, and not simply dismiss doing so because of the difficulty, because the violation is so great, and since we are free to find work, we carry the greater responsibility for the violation. We can't 'find another day' because the church has no authority to change the day and certainly no individual can simply choose another day and make it anything other than a physical day of rest off from work. It is not the day the Lord appointed to appear in worship with his people.
We need good people as cops, nurses, doctors, and military men. I've done nursing and the army. We always had to work every other weekend. There was really no compromise. Plus, if I asked off or to switch then somebody else would have to forego their own Sunday for me. My conscience was never bothered.
I would hate to think of rigid Christians steering clear of the helping professions due to Sabbath convictions. People are sick 24/7; we should be willing to help them 24/7. If not, your religion is worthless. Jesus could have waited until a Monday to heal all those people, after all....was He too impatient? No, He wanted to show that helping others was appropriate for the Sabbath.
I would hate to think of rigid Christians steering clear of the helping professions due to Sabbath convictions. People are sick 24/7; we should be willing to help them 24/7. If not, your religion is worthless. Jesus could have waited until a Monday to heal all those people, after all....was He too impatient? No, He wanted to show that helping others was appropriate for the Sabbath.
D
Deleted member 6112
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I've worked entry-level, unskilled labor, factory jobs for years. I've never been required to work on the Sabbath. One time I had to make up for it by working on a Federal holiday. I really don't think your proposed situation is realistic. Even if every company is open, that doesn't mean that every employee is on the clock. Seek to be faithful. Leave the rest to the Lord.
While your situation is a valuable one, it is just that; YOUR situation, and not representative of other areas. The world is a big place and the difficulties I shared were not hypothetical or made up worries, but very real and very harsh. Even if every employee is not on the clock, there will be a possibility that those who are convicted of working on the Sabbath need to be, and depending on where you live, a very unsympathetic employer.
D
Deleted member 6112
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I don't think so, brother. There are jobs in town that wouldn't require it.
D
Deleted member 6112
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There's a member of my congregation who became convinced that he had to work on the Sabbath to pay his bills. For the last couple of years, he has worked every Sabbath, all the while excusing himself from worship. He is currently under discipline for this sin. He now works two jobs, is practically homeless, and just lost his kids, who are now in foster care. Don't walk by sight. Seek to be faithful. Leave the rest to the Lord.
Amen!
I do wish more elders would weigh in here; surely many have had to bring advice to this issue if it is that epidemic in churches?
I'll repeat what I said earlier; we need to understand the gravity of this. Working on the Lord's Day is the grossest violation of that command, the synedoche standing for the breadth of all violations of it, just as adultery is in the seventh. If we come to realize we are in the grossest violation of one of God's commands, I'm far more worried about those who would soft peddle that concern to me -- 'oh, let's not get too legalistic here,' than I am with possibly being too severe. Being forced to work by a godless society, family needs, local circumstances, are mitigating factors and considerations when it comes to seeking resolution, but it does not remove God's standard. As the preacher said today, we don't define God's requirements by the level of our performance. In other words,, We don't define the fourth commandment's requirements of us by our inability to keep it any more than any of the other 9. Dr. Bownd said it better,
I do wish more elders would weigh in here; surely many have had to bring advice to this issue if it is that epidemic in churches?
I'll repeat what I said earlier; we need to understand the gravity of this. Working on the Lord's Day is the grossest violation of that command, the synedoche standing for the breadth of all violations of it, just as adultery is in the seventh. If we come to realize we are in the grossest violation of one of God's commands, I'm far more worried about those who would soft peddle that concern to me -- 'oh, let's not get too legalistic here,' than I am with possibly being too severe. Being forced to work by a godless society, family needs, local circumstances, are mitigating factors and considerations when it comes to seeking resolution, but it does not remove God's standard. As the preacher said today, we don't define God's requirements by the level of our performance. In other words,, We don't define the fourth commandment's requirements of us by our inability to keep it any more than any of the other 9. Dr. Bownd said it better,
"Lastly, though no man can perfectly keep this commandment, either in thought, word or deed, no more than he can any other; yet this is that perfection that we must aim at; and wherein, if we fail, we must repent us, and crave pardon for Christ’s sake. For as the whole law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ (Gal. 3:24); so is every particular commandment, and namely this of the Sabbath. And therefore we are not to measure the length and breadth of it by the over-scant rule of our own inability, but by the perfect reed of the Temple (Ezek. 40:3); that is, by the absolute righteousness of God himself, which only can give us the full measure of it." [Nicholas Bownd, Sabbathum Veteris Et Novi Testamenti: or, The True Doctrine of the Sabbath (1606; Naphtali Press and Reformation Heritage Books, 2015), 8-9.
TheOldCourse
Puritan Board Sophomore
We act as if these things are new. They are not. Through most of history the majority of mankind lived at a subsistence level and, humanly speaking, it seemed impossible to take a whole day off per week from work and support one's family. Look at how quickly and repeatedly Israel neglected the Sabbath throughout Scripture. For instance, when Nehemiah returned to Israel in Ch 13 the Sabbath was almost entirely neglected and the people weren't even providing for the Levites. This wasn't purely a case of greed--the people of Israel were exceedingly poor at this time and no doubt many struggled to provide for themselves. They lacked faith in God's providential care.
We now live in a time when most people in our land can provide well beyond basic necessities for their families in a work week of 40 hours. This only heightens our guilt for neglecting the Sabbath. That's not to say I'm not sympathetic--I know the many times I've failed to live up to the requirements of the 4th commandment when a much lesser cost, speaking in worldly terms, would have been exacted of me for faithfulness. But God's law stands.
With respect to advising one to move, people relocate frequently (with their families) for much less weighty reasons than the observance of God's law.
Are you actively seeking employment that will preclude you from having to work on the Lord's day? I think this is key to understanding the depth of your sabbath conviction. Obviously, you have bills to pay and food to put on the table for you and your family. It will not be wise to just up and quit your job without being able to meet your financial obligations. That said, if you are putting no effort into finding another job that will allow you to honor the Lord's day, then your sabbath conviction has to be questioned. Commit yourself to prayer and action; begin a dedicated long-term search for suitable employment. Let your elders/deacons know what you are doing. Have an open mind to the type of work you are willing to take. Is there anything you can do to make yourself marketable in a different field? Take stock of your situation and develop a strategy. It may take a long time to find a job, but then again you may find one next week; the key is that you need to commit yourself to a job search no matter how long it takes. I am speaking from experience.
I would say let's not get into it. If you want to discuss in generalities if discipline is appropriate, when, how, history in the church on this, start a new thread.
--- Post updated ---
OPC'n
Puritan Board Doctor
Myson, are you trying to figure out how to find a job where you have the Sabbath off, or is this just a theoretical discussion? If you're trying to find a job where you have off on the Sabbath, I would be willing to do some online searches for you sometime. There's some good jobs out there even ones where you can work from home.
Inactiver user19912
Puritan Board Freshman
I recently resigned from the pastorate because one of my elders was convinced that I was a Pharisee (and he rebuked me as one during a session meeting) merely for confessing that which the Divines summed up from Scripture. He was able to point to the good faith view of the PCA and harangue me for being out of step with my own denomination. (There's obviously more to this story but that's all I'll say publicly about this.)
This scenario, I've found, is not uncommon, and while it might not rise to the level that I dealt with, there is an abandonment of the Scriptures and the Standards' teaching in favor of "But what about?" thinking. We want to say "But what about" in a way that maybe reveals a desire to make our situation the one where it's OK to violate Scripture's clear teaching. I'm not accusing you of this but perhaps we'd all do well to examine why and how we answer as we do.
I would advise praying and reading seriously the Scriptures that undergird our Standards. Talk with your elders, and consider what God might do through your decision making process and how He might strengthen you through making a hard choice. What we see in the opening stages of examination is often not what we see when we look back on what God has done over the long haul.
Blessings,
George
This scenario, I've found, is not uncommon, and while it might not rise to the level that I dealt with, there is an abandonment of the Scriptures and the Standards' teaching in favor of "But what about?" thinking. We want to say "But what about" in a way that maybe reveals a desire to make our situation the one where it's OK to violate Scripture's clear teaching. I'm not accusing you of this but perhaps we'd all do well to examine why and how we answer as we do.
I would advise praying and reading seriously the Scriptures that undergird our Standards. Talk with your elders, and consider what God might do through your decision making process and how He might strengthen you through making a hard choice. What we see in the opening stages of examination is often not what we see when we look back on what God has done over the long haul.
Blessings,
George
Your comment sparked my thought process, but it was not directed at you or I would have quoted you with attribution. I will say this since you responded. What is legalistic? to be concerned to not violate the commandment? No way. Could someone come on in a clumsy manner or with too severe a demand as to rectifying the situation at once; maybe; but I don't see that being done here. But regardless, that is not legalism.
A large movement of reformed folks actively persuading their church members not to seek any employment that requires work on the Sabbath means dissuading thousands from the helping professions. There must be qualifications.
We want more Christians in those professions, not less.
We want more Christians in those professions, not less.
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