The Gathering Storm: A Split in the Reformed World
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Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
I would think that it involves some if not all of the following:
1. A push for gender egalitarianism in the wake of #MeToo
2. Things like the Revoice conference with evangelicals arguing that same-sex attraction is morally neutral if not actually a positive good so long as you remain celibate.
3. What appears to be an uncritical acceptance of things like Critical Race Theory on the part of some, including a move from calling for racial reconciliation to advocacy of reparations.
If current trends continue, with the crackup of the New Calvinism/YRR, I wonder if evangelicalism in general will actually be worse off than it was before.
1. A push for gender egalitarianism in the wake of #MeToo
2. Things like the Revoice conference with evangelicals arguing that same-sex attraction is morally neutral if not actually a positive good so long as you remain celibate.
3. What appears to be an uncritical acceptance of things like Critical Race Theory on the part of some, including a move from calling for racial reconciliation to advocacy of reparations.
If current trends continue, with the crackup of the New Calvinism/YRR, I wonder if evangelicalism in general will actually be worse off than it was before.
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Would point 1 being involving the push to include women as pastors/teachers?
Point 2 sounds a lot like the left wing Christianity of someone like a Tony Campallo.
Point 3 is not where we need to go, as that seems to be going into the area of white shaming, whites having been as running everything wrongly . It ignores that the Cross of Christ has now made us one in Him.
there does seem to be a real effort to have traditional Christians viewpoints changed to reflect the cultural norms and ways now.
Gforce9
Puritan Board Junior
Certainly, this is true, but it is much worse. Theological liberalism is being marketed and sold by professing Christians. At some point, sessions will have to hold members to the "doctrine" part of "doctrine and life"......
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The siren call to being political correct and in tune with modern morals and cultural norms is getting overwhelming.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
I'm not so sure the "Woke" ministers are caving to political correctness. THat implies at least some (albeit short-lived) resistance. I think they actually believe that stuff.
the ministers and churches who cave under the pressure would still be preferred to those who changed their views for real.
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
In other words, hypocrisy is preferable?
I would see that those who caved in to the pressure would be still true, but wavering in their walk, and need to be corrected and brought back to what they once were, but those who turned away and now really do buy into false doctrines and bad theology are in much worse state.In other words, hypocrisy is preferable?
LightBringer
Puritan Board Freshman
Liberalism is poisoning the Church. None of this is biblical--especially the 'need to repent' of the racism of your grandparents.
After listening to this, I would class myself as classic reformed.
After listening to this, I would class myself as classic reformed.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Friel blows it at 8:49 calling those that hold to LBC 1689, 'Reformed'. in my opinion, the term "Classic reformed" would be proper if one were speaking of those Reformers that hold to the 1646 WCF only.
It doesn't change the substance of what he was addressing on his program.
Susan777
Puritan Board Sophomore
Why?
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
I disagree. I much prefer the company of honest atheists to that of dishonest Christians.
These are the inevitable consequences of God’s giving over a people to their sins. These things will not bring His judgment on His people. These things are His judgment upon us.
Disregard His sabbath, and lax will be all understanding and holy endeavors to keep His commandments. Disregard His sabbath, and the preaching of the Word is diminished to a negligible portion of the worship service, becoming merely a lovely song of a pleasant voice (Ezekiel 33.30-32), if even that! Before too long, the Lord sends a famine -not of bread or water- but of His Word (Amos 8.11), whence cometh the “little foxes” that eat up the vineyard. So wicked we become, that the Lord would call His people Sodom’s sister, “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy,” (Ezekiel 16.49).
Rightly we decry these goings-on in our earthly Zion, but at the expense of failing to lay axes to the roots of their very sustenance. Let us confess with great shame and confusion of face the more foundational and egregious violations against God in the first table, making clearance of the log in our eyes to push out these matters which would become but specks, rightly spending our best efforts in a return to a right use of the sabbath day, hence a right use of preaching, hence a better understanding of what God requires and -by His Spirit- an endeavor faithfully to carry such out.
Disregard His sabbath, and lax will be all understanding and holy endeavors to keep His commandments. Disregard His sabbath, and the preaching of the Word is diminished to a negligible portion of the worship service, becoming merely a lovely song of a pleasant voice (Ezekiel 33.30-32), if even that! Before too long, the Lord sends a famine -not of bread or water- but of His Word (Amos 8.11), whence cometh the “little foxes” that eat up the vineyard. So wicked we become, that the Lord would call His people Sodom’s sister, “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy,” (Ezekiel 16.49).
Rightly we decry these goings-on in our earthly Zion, but at the expense of failing to lay axes to the roots of their very sustenance. Let us confess with great shame and confusion of face the more foundational and egregious violations against God in the first table, making clearance of the log in our eyes to push out these matters which would become but specks, rightly spending our best efforts in a return to a right use of the sabbath day, hence a right use of preaching, hence a better understanding of what God requires and -by His Spirit- an endeavor faithfully to carry such out.
Grant
Puritan Board Graduate
Aiming at sharing an encouraging word (hoping my aim is true):
Yes these things are troubling. But at the the same time the Lord will protect his true Church. Often times when I am discouraged by something i see as threatening to the visible church, I also remind myself with the fact that if I see a problem then let the solution begin with me! Has liberalism or secularism or relativism begun to take root in my own heart? As a husbands and farthers seemingly “approaching storms” should cause us to dig my heals in even more and make sure my wife and children hold to the Word. Then from there wage war on it within our local church. This storm is disheartening. The true church will continue to be further refined and sanctified. Let us all remain strong and encourage and fight for our brothers and sisters who may slip, who may wonder. This can be rightly seen as judgment... so more and more we could see persecution. Though I do not pray or desire for our US churches to be spiritually attacked. I do know (from scripture) that trials refine true faith. I do believe that the trajectory of the secularism, relativism, and liberalism will lead to reasoning of “why even go to church at all”. So maybe the FALSE churches essentially eliminate themselves.... idk? But I do know We must continue to hold fast to the words of our God who is our Bulwark. Reformed gotta act reformed. (We must wage war on ant foreseen Heresies)
Yes these things are troubling. But at the the same time the Lord will protect his true Church. Often times when I am discouraged by something i see as threatening to the visible church, I also remind myself with the fact that if I see a problem then let the solution begin with me! Has liberalism or secularism or relativism begun to take root in my own heart? As a husbands and farthers seemingly “approaching storms” should cause us to dig my heals in even more and make sure my wife and children hold to the Word. Then from there wage war on it within our local church. This storm is disheartening. The true church will continue to be further refined and sanctified. Let us all remain strong and encourage and fight for our brothers and sisters who may slip, who may wonder. This can be rightly seen as judgment... so more and more we could see persecution. Though I do not pray or desire for our US churches to be spiritually attacked. I do know (from scripture) that trials refine true faith. I do believe that the trajectory of the secularism, relativism, and liberalism will lead to reasoning of “why even go to church at all”. So maybe the FALSE churches essentially eliminate themselves.... idk? But I do know We must continue to hold fast to the words of our God who is our Bulwark. Reformed gotta act reformed. (We must wage war on ant foreseen Heresies)
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I think that the real solution to racism issues is not to have whites being shamed for past abuses, but to realize that all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and place the bond blacks and whites saved by grace of God now share in Christ.
It would seem to be proper to have Reformed Baptists called something like Particular Baptists instead, as know many who are Calvinistic in their theology prefer to use that designation anyways.
I view the Christians who buckle under pressure as not really dishonest, but as weak, just as Peter failed to apply what he knew when Paul confronted him.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
But they are preaching the same bottom-line message as the traitors
Gforce9
Puritan Board Junior
Whatever name is employed, the distinction is one of category/definition and not of "standing". In other words, it is a term to distinguish beliefs and not to assign a "class" of citizenship. Many of the Baptists here will be far in front of the line of this wicked, vile Presbyterian in the kingdom of God........
They still have right theology, unlike those who completely moved to liberal views, but really need to practice what they preach.
I see the label change as being helpful in the sense it shows that both sides agree on the main points of the Theology, but there also remains some substantial differences.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Yes, but that presumes an honest agenda on their part.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
That's why I try to bring balancing pressure from the other side. Leave them no place to run, no place to hide. Some find the technique offensive or strident. But we have ample evidence of where "kinder and gentler" leads.
Remember, folks who sit on the fence make easy targets for both sides.
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