Modesty and its definition

[Romans922]

I'm preaching on sexual immorality from Ephesians 5, but I am also applying it in terms of modesty. I was thinking about a definition of encouragement, would this be a good one.

'Modesty is a delicate yet formidable power that God has given you.'?

Obviously the power described is not some supernatural power, just a natural power.

I found this in a book on modesty and it is sort of modern evangelicalish.

What do you the women and men think?

 

[Berean]

I found this in a book on modesty and it is sort of modern evangelicalish.

I really love the new words you create, Andrew. You're very good at it.

 

[Romans922]

I found this in a book on modesty and it is sort of modern evangelicalish.

I really love the new words you create, Andrew. You're very good at it.

Thanks, I do it while I preach to. Someone should write down every new word I come up with and make a dictionary. The New St. Andrew's Dictionary. Something to that affect would be marketable.

 

[MarieP]

I'm preaching on sexual immorality from Ephesians 5, but I am also applying it in terms of modesty. I was thinking about a definition of encouragement, would this be a good one.

'Modesty is a delicate yet formidable power that God has given you.'?

Obviously the power described is not some supernatural power, just a natural power.

I found this in a book on modesty and it is sort of modern evangelicalish.

What do you the women and men think?

Thanks for teaching on modesty! It's something that really needs to be addressed today.

I don't understand the gist of that definition you quoted. Modesty is not some abstract thing, although I will grant that one person's view of modesty may be different than another's.

Modesty is living in a way that says my body, speech, and actions are owned by Christ, and He has the right to tell me how to conduct myself in every area of life. It is more than wearing the clothes we wear (though that is certainly important.) It is an attitude of the heart at its foundation, and everything else is built on that. Am I dressing to please the Lord, or am I dressing to catch the attention of men? Do I think about whether what I wear might cause my brethren to struggle with lust or jealousy? Do I conduct myself and speak in a way that says, "I'm so important!" or in a way that says, "I'm here to glorify Christ and serve others?"

Once you get that part down, there are quite a few places you can get practical advice. Again, it's more than how you dress, but that's the most, if I can use the word, visible aspect of modesty.

Validating the Gospel in Modesty- Al Martin

Sovereign Grace Ministries Blog - Modesty

Modesty Heart Check- Carolyn Mahaney

Modeling Modesty- Mary Mohler

 

[N. Eshelman]

Modesty is simply not drawing attention to yourself: that includes short skirts, but also 'uniformity' type dressing.

 

[Grillsy]

Uniformity type dressing?

 

[Montanablue]

I do not understand that definition, especially the use of the word "delicate." (I'm not being snarky or sarcastic - I really don't understand it. And I've pondered it for about 5 minutes.)

 

[Edward]

'Modesty is a delicate yet formidable power that God has given you.'?

Translate it into plain English and I'll be happy to comment. It comes across as trying to sound erudite without actually saying anything meaningful.

 

[Pergamum]

"There is power, power, wonder working power, in the smocks.."

 

[ewenlin]

"There is power, power, wonder working power, in the smocks.."

Yup. Sounds about right. This should sum it up..

 

[Kevin]

I am with Edward & Kathleen, I don't know what it means.

It sounds kinda-sorta "churchy" but I can't imagine how anyone would apply it...

 

[Romans922]

I believe the power being talked about in this definition is not about the clothes one wears but about (in this case) the woman behind the clothes.

 

[N. Eshelman]

Uniformity type dressing?

This is what I mean by uniform type dressing (at least an application thereof)

If modesty means not sticking out and avoiding extremes (this is at the root of the word modest)- then this type of dress is immodest because it draws attention to the wearers.

 

[Jack K]

I'm preaching on sexual immorality from Ephesians 5, but I am also applying it in terms of modesty. I was thinking about a definition of encouragement, would this be a good one.

'Modesty is a delicate yet formidable power that God has given you.'?

Obviously the power described is not some supernatural power, just a natural power.

I found this in a book on modesty and it is sort of modern evangelicalish.

What do you the women and men think?

How about these from Wendy Shalit (though she's not a Christian) in Christianity Today:

"Modesty prevents us from being vulnerable with the wrong people. It also protects deep, erotic connections between the right people.

"Modesty is not about prudery. Prudery and promiscuity actually have a lot in common: neither the promiscuous person nor the prude can be moved or touched by anything. The modest person can be moved by something and wants to be moved by something in the right circumstances."

 

[kvanlaan]

Modesty is living in a way that says my body, speech, and actions are owned by Christ, and He has the right to tell me how to conduct myself in every area of life. It is more than wearing the clothes we wear (though that is certainly important.) It is an attitude of the heart at its foundation, and everything else is built on that. Am I dressing to please the Lord, or am I dressing to catch the attention of men? Do I think about whether what I wear might cause my brethren to struggle with lust or jealousy? Do I conduct myself and speak in a way that says, "I'm so important!" or in a way that says, "I'm here to glorify Christ and serve others?"

I like this defintion. I know that the extreme (prairie dresses, etc.) is too much, but when I see a married 40-something year old women in tight tops, short skirts and high-heeled boots at church, I think of what my wife always says: "Just who are they trying to attract in dressing that way?" And who are they trying to glorify?

 

[Tripel]

'Modesty is a delicate yet formidable power that God has given you.'?

I agree with those who have expressed confusion over this definition. It's rather vague.

I really like the definitions Jack provided from Christianity Today. They are specific and get right to the heart of the issue.

 

[Andres]

How about this definition? (its from the dictionary)

Modesty:
1. having or showing a moderate or humble estimate of one's merits, importance, etc.; free from vanity, egotism, boastfulness, or great pretensions.
2. free from ostentation or showy extravagance: a modest house.
3. having or showing regard for the decencies of behavior, speech, dress, etc.; decent: a modest neckline on a dress.
4. limited or moderate in amount, extent, etc.: a modest increase in salary.

If you are saying modesty comes from God, then can a non-believer ever be modest? Why does it have to be defined in relation to God? I know you are preaching, so your explanation of it is obviously going to relate to God, holy living, etc, but just for definition's sake, why do you need a new definition?

 

[Wayne]

Per the subject index, I don't see that topic covered in The Morning Exercises at Cripplegate, aka Puritan Sermons. Surprised--usually a go-to standard for something like this.

Have you looked at Baxter's Christian Directory?

 

[ubermadchen]

Why is a focus on modesty always on clothes? Immodest clothes or behavior are the result of an immodest heart. True modesty is continually decreasing oneself that Christ may increase.

 

[puritanpilgrim]

If modesty means not sticking out and avoiding extremes (this is at the root of the word modest)- then this type of dress is immodest because it draws attention to the wearers.

I think you are getting a little post modern with your definition. What christians do will stick out. Try taking your teenage girl out shopping. It's not easy. When my wife and I go out she will say do you like this shirt. I will say sure, if you buy this one too and wear them both at the same time. We don't have to look like Amish, but if that is how a family want to dress, I don't think it would be immodest. Salt will be tasty in bland food and light will be bright when there is darkness. No matter what christians wear, they are likely not to fit in or look like everyone else. Therefore, they are likely to stick out, which does not necessarily make them immodest.

 

[Montanablue]

I believe the power being talked about in this definition is not about the clothes one wears but about (in this case) the woman behind the clothes.

Now I'm even more confused. Are you only preaching to women? Modesty is something commanded to both genders and the passage that you're preaching on doesn't seem directed specifically towards women.

 

[Romans922]

I believe the power being talked about in this definition is not about the clothes one wears but about (in this case) the woman behind the clothes.

Now I'm even more confused. Are you only preaching to women? Modesty is something commanded to both genders and the passage that you're preaching on doesn't seem directed specifically towards women.

Sorry, I should've clarified that the book this reference is from is directed towards women. I would not disagree that modesty is for men and women and children!

 

[Augusta]

Why is a focus on modesty always on clothes? Immodest clothes or behavior are the result of an immodest heart. True modesty is continually decreasing oneself that Christ may increase.

Clothing is the most obvious manifestation of the heart on this matter. Just as out of the abudance of the heart the mouth speaks, similarly your clothing is a direct reflection of the attitude of your heart.

Even secular people believe this, you have heard the expression: the clothing makes the man? Your clothing says A LOT about you. They can be the front lines of your witness to Christ and his work in your heart.

 

[Southern Twang]

So if I wear blue jeans and a white t-shirt, what is my heart telling people? What about a long sleeve t-shirt versus a short sleeve one?

A lot of wicked people dress modestly, what does that say about their heart?

I have hard time believing the "what you wear is a condition of your heart" argument. Most of the time, it ain't got nothing to do with your heart. Not that it never does, but the modesty discussion always seems to center around clothing. Like what you wear is the leading indicator of what's in your heart. Me thinks not.

 

[Augusta]

Not necessarily the condition of your heart but definitely an expression of yourself. You can tell certain things about people by how they dress. Not always, of course, there are always exceptions. If you think about it I am sure you will see that you yourself notice things about people all the time based on their clothes. I also think women moreso, because they take more pains with clothes as a general rule. It used to be that guys didn't fuss much about what they wear, but that is changing rapidly.

 

[Romans922]

So if I wear blue jeans and a white t-shirt, what is my heart telling people? What about a long sleeve t-shirt versus a short sleeve one?

A lot of wicked people dress modestly, what does that say about their heart?

I have hard time believing the "what you wear is a condition of your heart" argument. Most of the time, it ain't got nothing to do with your heart. Not that it never does, but the modesty discussion always seems to center around clothing. Like what you wear is the leading indicator of what's in your heart. Me thinks not.

Dewey,

If walked around in public with a bikini on or a miniskirt, that would say A LOT about yourself and the state of your heart.

 

[Tripel]

I have hard time believing the "what you wear is a condition of your heart" argument. Most of the time, it ain't got nothing to do with your heart. Not that it never does, but the modesty discussion always seems to center around clothing. Like what you wear is the leading indicator of what's in your heart. Me thinks not.

Certainly, what we wear is not the leading indicator of the heart, but we can still say quite a lot about our hearts through what we wear. Our American culture is obsessed with appearance, and it affects all of us to some degree or another. When we choose clothes to wear, we are choosing how we would like to appear, or how we would like for people to think of us.
Some people dress so that they blend in. Some dress so that they stand out. Some dress to suggest a certain lifestyle or status. Some dress to garner attention.

While clothing doesn't always reveal the condition of one's heart, they quite often reveal what a person pursues.

 

[Southern Twang]

So if I wear blue jeans and a white t-shirt, what is my heart telling people? What about a long sleeve t-shirt versus a short sleeve one?

A lot of wicked people dress modestly, what does that say about their heart?

I have hard time believing the "what you wear is a condition of your heart" argument. Most of the time, it ain't got nothing to do with your heart. Not that it never does, but the modesty discussion always seems to center around clothing. Like what you wear is the leading indicator of what's in your heart. Me thinks not.

Dewey,

If walked around in public with a bikini on or a miniskirt, that would say A LOT about yourself and the state of your heart.

Note I didn't say never or it wasn't possible.

 

[Montanablue]

So if I wear blue jeans and a white t-shirt, what is my heart telling people? What about a long sleeve t-shirt versus a short sleeve one?

A lot of wicked people dress modestly, what does that say about their heart?

I have hard time believing the "what you wear is a condition of your heart" argument. Most of the time, it ain't got nothing to do with your heart. Not that it never does, but the modesty discussion always seems to center around clothing. Like what you wear is the leading indicator of what's in your heart. Me thinks not.

Dewey,

If walked around in public with a bikini on or a miniskirt, that would say A LOT about yourself and the state of your heart.

That is an extreme example. Of course, dressing in an extreme way may something about the state of your heart. I don't think that was the point of the post.

 

[ubermadchen]

Not necessarily the condition of your heart but definitely an expression of yourself. You can tell certain things about people by how they dress. Not always, of course, there are always exceptions. If you think about it I am sure you will see that you yourself notice things about people all the time based on their clothes. I also think women moreso, because they take more pains with clothes as a general rule. It used to be that guys didn't fuss much about what they wear, but that is changing rapidly.

But the modesty issue isn't just about clothes. Modesty is an attitude of the heart not an article of clothing. The problem with just focusing on clothes is the notion that men can leave themselves off the hook. Few men dress immodestly but that doesn't mean men are not modest in their behavior or thoughts. I think I dress modestly but that doesn't mean that I still don't struggle with a modest heart. We all, men and women, have an obligation to make less of oneself in order that Christ may be made much of. Focus on the heart issue and a change in clothing is sure to follow soon after.