Changing major to religion

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Weston Stoler

Weston Stoler

Puritan Board Sophomore
I don't know exactly how this would work in getting a job. I don't know of too many places that would hire me with this degree. I have yet to feel a call to ministry however I don't see myself majoring in anything else yet.
 
Weston,

I have some questions for you. How far along are you in college? Where are you attending? Have you talk to your pastor/elders about this? If you are called to ministry then they will see that, not just you. They can give recommendations to you about college before you change everything on what may be a whim.

Looking back on my time, i majored in Bible in college then when to seminary. I was ahead in a few areas, but lack in others. For instance, in the time that I had no call to a church I had no way to provide for my family because I only had a bible degree. Thus, I would suggest you get a college degree that would not only prepare you for seminary (if that is what your elders recommend), but would be a good degree to which you could support a family/get a secular job if you need it.

Degrees like history, philosophy, law, engineering, etc. would be good. The first three that I listed could easily get you a job as a teacher at a private Christian school...which are always looking for teachers.
 
Weston Stoler said:
I don't know exactly how this would work in getting a job. I don't know of too many places that would hire me with this degree. I have yet to feel a call to ministry however I don't see myself majoring in anything else yet.
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What had you planned to major in originally? Certainly a religion degree is not going to get you a job, but I also don't think of higher education as being aimed at job training. (call me crazy, I know some think I am on this point).

I've forgotten where you're going - so is it a secular school? Are you aware of what your religion major coursework is going to look like later on? What religion courses have you taken so far that have led you to consider this as a major?
 
I would strongly echo Pastor Barnes's suggestions. Philosophy, Classics and History, in particular, will serve you very well indeed in terms of possible employment in Christian academics. Religion will NOT generally serve you well in that way.

They also will serve you far better as a potential ministry candidate, should you choose seminary after your undergraduate work. Again, a religion degree will most likely NOT serve you at all as well.
 
I'd urge you to learn a trade at this stage of your life. I don't know that an undergraduate degree in religion will give you much of a head start if you do end up going to seminary. And you will need to be in a position to support yourself and (hopefully) a family.
 
I have no idea what the requirements are for a religion degree, but if it is from a secular college/university, then I'd imagine you 'd have to spend time studying comparative religion. I think that would be a waste of time and potentially damaging.

Agreeing with the others, focus on learning a trade or intellectual skill. For one thing, having an actual skill gives you confidence in other endeavors. Success at basic things helps you to be successful at more complex things.

And competence at doing practical things makes it easier to focus on whatever field you end up in. In my experience (law school as an older student 22 years ago), the folks right out of college had the greatest anxiety. The men and women who had been teachers, police officers, farmers, welders, roughnecks, whatever, were all more confident.
 
Maybe as a base for going to seminary and getting into childrens ministry. I am not sure though If I want to be in any sort of ministry yet. Officialy it will be my first year. slacked last year to the point that my grades where bad enough to send me to community college. God sent me to the wood shed this summer and Now I will be back next semester and don't know what exactly i am heading to do.
 
Talk to your elders and seek their advice.

Majoring in religion at 99% of colleges in the US will be a degree of knowing the world. :)
 
A broad-based education is always a good thing. Focus now on the English and history classes that are required by schools with a good core curriculum. Get some math and perhaps logic to increase your reasoning skills. That will put you in a good position as a junior to declare a major. Read broadly on your own in the reformation classics, church history (if you can't take it for credit) systematics and Biblical theology. All these will help you as you lead your own household and will give you the background for seminary if God has chosen that route for you.
 
I did religion in undergrad and in graduate. If I could do it all again, this is what I would advise if you still want religion for your undergrad -- double major. If you plan it right you could do a non-religion major and then add a secondary major in religion. The secondary major classes will count towards your free electives on the primary major degree plan, leaving you really close to the normal bachelor's degree length as far as credit hours (depending on the school and how exactly the degree plan is arranged). Most people just take random classes for electives, and if you haven't already done this, you could essentially get the best of both worlds.
 
I graduated with a double major undergraduate degree in English and Philosophy from Auburn University in 2003. I am currently a computer technician. My degree was supposed to be Religion, but transferred into Philosophy, for which I'm grateful. I'm not so sure Religion is as helpful as Philosophy, if for no other reason than that you're actually learning how to think with a Philosophy degree - something the Religion program I was in at the time didn't promote (whether it does now, I can't say - but the Philosophy Department at Auburn is the best in the nation for Public schools). Just a few passing thought of no particular aim.
 
If you're in a secular institution I think you will find any courses on religion (particularly Christianity) to be surface level, frustrating, and down right liberal in most cases. I would avoid studying Religion at a public University.
 
There are a lot of undergraduate studies that would give you skills and prepare you for Christian ministry.

"Religion," is not one of them.

Remember, "religion" has replaced theology as a discipline, reflecting the transfer in focus from God (theology) to man (religion).

You can probably get all the (nonsense) theories and false religion summaries you need in a few classes at most, not needing a major even for that. Remember, the hypocrisy of the way Christianity is often presented in secular, liberal arts contexts in our generation-
critical of and closed to what is true, admiring of and open to the false.

With a little spiritual discernment, you will become disgusted with that, probably in your first class.

Law can be a good basis for future theology, and gives you other career options. Even business administration, or engineering can have similar benefits.

Also, master a foreign language- it will also open doors for you in "all of life" ministry. Latin and Spanish can benefit you, whether pastoral ministry is in your future, or not.
 
I very strongly urge you to reconsider as this doesn't seem to be a very wise choice for your future.

You say you do not discern any particular call to the ministry, but you seem to be eager to change majors to religion nonetheless. I ask, why?

In the event that you did eventually discern that you are called to be a minister, why would you major in religion in undergrad? It's not necessary to being accepted to an M.Div program. Looking ahead to the future, what if God called you away from the ministry after a period of time? Then where would you be? It's awfully short-sighted to "put all of your eggs in one basket" in such a manner. Why would you not pursue a degree in something that has an open job market?

Let's say that something like that did happen, what would your major in religion get you? What would your M.Div get you? Nothing much, really. You could potentially land a teaching job somewhere, but that's a stretch. Where would your family be then? What would you be qualified to do? Not much.

Let's say you don't discern a call to the ministry, but you pursue religion as a major anyway. You admit there are no jobs out there for someone with this degree. What are you going to do? What if you meet someone you want to marry in college? I know that, if you asked my daughter to marry you (she's not born yet but this is hypothetical) and you were graduating with a religion degree, I'd forbid it. Not because you aren't a nice guy (I assume you're an upstanding fellow), or that you wouldn't love her (I assume if you're wanting to marry someone you love them), but because you couldn't provide for her or any children you might have.

We're in the worst job market that anyone alive today under the age of 80 can remember. People with marketable degrees can't find jobs. My law school just graduated a class of people, most of whom can't find a job. Why? Because there are people from my class still looking for jobs. They have law degrees in addition to whatever undergrad degree they got.

Hypothetically, you interview for an entry-level position with your religion degree. Someone else interviews with their undergrad as well as a law or other post-graduate degree. Who do you think will be getting that job? Not you. I guarantee to you that will happen too. I know because I have buddies interviewing for jobs outside the legal field because there are no jobs.

My question to you again is this: Why in the world would you do this to yourself?

The degree isn't marketable, i.e. there are no jobs for people with religion degrees. Even if it was marketable, the job market is in the tank so things are ridiculously competitive and you'll be competing with people who out-qualify you. You're killing your potential in the future by going after this degree. You will not be able to provide for a family on your own. If you get married, you wife will have to work. If you try to marry a girl who's father is paying attention, he won't let you get married in such a state.

So again, why?

If I've discouraged you, then my job is mostly complete at this point.

I got an undergrad degree in criminal justice. Do you know what you can do with that degree? Become a cop. Do you know what you can do without that degree? Become a cop. The degree is unnecessary. It was an exercise in futility. If I hadn't of gotten into law school, my life would be vastly different right now. I probably wouldn't be married, at least not to my wife. I had all of my future hopes and dreams riding on being accepted into and passing law school and the bar exam.

You do not want to be in that position. You want something there to fall back on. If I had been smart, I would have gotten a marketable degree in something that has jobs waiting when you graduate. Nursing, engineering, finance, something that was associated with a job field. That way, if I didn't get into law school, my life wasn't dead in the water.

Do not, I repeat, do not take a major in a field simply because you enjoy that field. Very, very few people are able to get jobs doing their hobbies. Studying up on religion is not a job. It's a hobby. Philosophy is not a job, it's a hobby. Pottery is not a job, it's a hobby. English literature is not a job, it's a hobby. Yet people get majors in them every day. Why? Because they enjoy them. I enjoy playing video games. I'd never major in video games though.

Here's what you should do: Research jobs that you like that make enough that you can support a family over the course of a career, i.e. 30+ years. Think of ten jobs you could see yourself doing. Research what you have to do to be qualified at those jobs. Look at what majors they prefer, look at how much experience they want and what type of experience they want. Plan your college education around becoming qualified for those jobs, which includes working or, if necessary, volunteering at places that will get you the requisite experience.

Do not do what I did. If, at the end of your college education, you determine that God has called you to the ministry, have you wasted your time? No. You've ensured that, if something happens, you're prepared to take care of your family. Read about religions in your spare time.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ----------

To emphasize:

I am begging you not to do this. Please take my advice. I wish I had when I was 18.

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

To emphasize:

I am begging you not to do this. Please take my advice. I wish I had when I was 18.
 
Andrew doesn't go far enough. With your academic track record so far, learn a trade. They can't outsource leaky pipes to China. Plumbing, welding, electrical. Auto repair.

Don't waste your parents' money getting a worthless degree. And certainly don't go into debt for one.
 
Part of my degree is sort of like this. I do the CofS ministry courses but the secular religious/theology courses are not good. Do not do them. Do philosophy or classics in my opinion or just go to bible college/seminary.
 
Zenas said:
Do not, I repeat, do not take a major in a field simply because you enjoy that field. Very, very few people are able to get jobs doing their hobbies. Studying up on religion is not a job. It's a hobby. Philosophy is not a job, it's a hobby. Pottery is not a job, it's a hobby. English literature is not a job, it's a hobby. Yet people get majors in them every day. Why? Because they enjoy them. I enjoy playing video games. I'd never major in video games though.
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This is a rather unfair comparison, actually: liberal arts majors are actually going to prepare you better for an unsure job market, in my opinion. Let's take my major: philosophy. Yes, the market for philosophers/grad schools is competitive, but the skills that philosophy teaches are transferrable to any discipline. Five years from now, no one's going to care what you majored in---they're mostly going to care that you have a degree. If you can write and communicate well (which is what just about any liberal arts major will teach you to do) then you have a skill that is transferrable to just about any field. About the only field that is as versatile is accounting.

However, it's also not a bad idea to learn a trade, in addition to all that.

I wouldn't switch to religion, though, unless you're interested in sociology---because that's how the academy generally categorizes the religion department. Go for philosophy, history, or English.
 
P. F. Pugh said:
This is a rather unfair comparison, actually: liberal arts majors are actually going to prepare you better for an unsure job market, in my opinion. Let's take my major: philosophy. Yes, the market for philosophers/grad schools is competitive, but the skills that philosophy teaches are transferrable to any discipline. Five years from now, no one's going to care what you majored in---they're mostly going to care that you have a degree. If you can write and communicate well (which is what just about any liberal arts major will teach you to do) then you have a skill that is transferrable to just about any field. About the only field that is as versatile is accounting.
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I don't find this to be true. It used to be the case that all people cared about was a degree. I don't see that being the case in the next decade unless things change significantly. Your philosophy degree is not marketable in any sense. That's harsh, but that's reality. No one is going to hire you to be an engineer with a philosophy degree. No one is going to hire you to be a nurse with a philosophy degree. The people I know with philosophy degrees are three things: Lawyers, Waiter(esses), Unemployed.

That's reality. No one cares whether you have a degree anymore because the market is literally flooded with degrees. I eat lunch every day and I'm served by people with college educations. The ABA just ran an article about a lawyer who is currently a bartender at night to make ends meet. I repeat: She has a Juris Doctorate in addition to a college degree and she is a bartender.

"Just get a degree" was the biggest lie told to our generation. Everyone believed it, and now everyone has a degree. Since it's so common, it's now unremarkable. You have to have a degree in something to find a job.

---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 PM ----------

Edward said:
Andrew doesn't go far enough. With your academic track record so far, learn a trade. They can't outsource leaky pipes to China. Plumbing, welding, electrical. Auto repair.

Don't waste your parents' money getting a worthless degree. And certainly don't go into debt for one.
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x1000.

Welders make great money. Electricians make great money. They're always in demand. People always need electricians. People always need welders. Jobs can be extremely stable, especially if you get work at a plant. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this to you. College is not necessary if you're up for learning a trade. In some ways, learning a trade is way more stable than jobs that require college degrees.
 
The welders who make great money are either pipefitters or on contracts in far-away deserts. Otherwise, they just make an acceptable living.

Everyone has given you some good advice. I do agree with Todd that higher education isn't all about job training; however, you need to survive. Unless you're in a situation where you are confident of being able to support a household regardless of what you do over the next few years, then you do need to consider your higher education choices right now in light of their effect on your future income potential. If you're able to study anything and still end up able to support yourself and pay off any college debt, then that's fine. But if not, you need to consider the future. You can always study subjects purely for interest by yourself, or even take college courses in interesting subjects in the future once money is no object.

We don't know what skills you have, or what kinds of jobs you could get (whether with or without a degree). But you need to have some idea. You need to have some idea of your future before you commit money to it. Well you don't need to. But it'll be nice if in ten years you can look back and know you made the right choices, even if your actual future is entirely different to what you imagined. Maybe after thoroughly thinking it through the right choice for you will be to just study the thing that interests you most. We can't say for sure that's not the case :-)
 
Zenas said:
The people I know with philosophy degrees are three things: Lawyers, Waiter(esses), Unemployed.
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Funny how that works. I can think of several folks with philosophy degrees who are pastors, theologians, electricians, artists, high corporate mucky-mucks, journalists, and the like. Maybe its just the people I know.

It also seems to me that there's some value in education for its own sake. Can you read lots of books and such on your own? Yes. Can you write papers on your own? Yes. But there's something to be said for mentorship and learning from someone who knows much more than you in a structured setting. What's unfortunate is the way that this model has been turned into the modern diploma-mill that passes for a University. The great lie is that going to college is about getting a job: it's not---it's about getting an education in order to be a better-rounded individual. When I compare the kind of education that I've gotten from Covenant (and Oxford) with that which my peers at State Universities have gotten, it's no wonder that degrees have been devalued.
 
I've met people who share your philosophy of education. I've met very few who have been successful.
 
P. F. Pugh said:
When I compare the kind of education that I've gotten from Covenant (and Oxford) with that which my peers at State Universities have gotten, it's no wonder that degrees have been devalued.
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I'm just a state-schooled fellow passing by whistling, minding my own business. . . . Was that a gasconadeous zing buzzing my ear? No, probably merely an allusion.
 
VictorBravo said:
I'm just a state-schooled fellow passing by whistling, minding my own business. . . . Was that a gasconadeous zing buzzing my ear? No, probably merely an allusion.
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I'm speaking a) in generalities b) from my own experience c) from my own time. I have no doubt that some are able to make a large public university work for them and that universities today are not what they were.

Zenas said:
I've met people who share your philosophy of education. I've met very few who have been successful.
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For a given value of successful, no doubt.
 
I would recommend this.

If you do not know what major you should select, then select communication. The reason I say communication is because:

1.) Public Speaking is good for those who are called to ministry. To be accepted into an M-Div program, my understanding is that a BA in Communication is recommended (I have a communication degree and recently looked at different Seminaries). I was told that a communication degree is good for ministry and church service. If you are not called into ministry then you can move onto number 2.

2.) Communication is a very broad major and you can spin to get almost any job (I am an IT Project Manager, however, I have an Associates in Computer Networking). Most job's require you to be a good communicator regardless of the position. You want a degree that can make you marketable, and a specialized degree's isn't the way to go in my opinion. The reason is because the major is very broad, and its advantage is that you can spin it into your favor for many jobs.

3.) I do not know how far along you are in school, but you could take courses that are electives for now. That way you have time to really think about what you feel like God is calling you to do.

Hope this helps.
 
RobertPGH1981 said:
I do not know how far along you are in school, but you could take courses that are electives for now. That way you have time to really think about what you feel like God is calling you to do.
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This is the best piece of advice I've seen here: figure out what major you think God wants you to go with, and just go with it.
 
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