A Sabbath Postion Change

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Things are going much better than I deserve. I await each and every sabbath day with anticipation and joy.

Glad to hear it brother. What has changed since you changed your position? What practical impact has it made?


Mainly the knowledge of the doctrine. I always had a great repect for the day even before I embraced the confessional position. It has altered my wife and daughter a good bit. They voluntarily stopped all shopping or TV and gladly embraced it as well. We spend our afternoons listening to preaching, reading something spiritual, or visiting the sick. It has made a wonderful difference in my home.
 
May God be praised! There is a special delight in the Lord which follows upon calling the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable. May He cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it!

:amen::agree:
 
Mainly the knowledge of the doctrine. I always had a great repect for the day even before I embraced the confessional position. It has altered my wife and daughter a good bit. They voluntarily stopped all shopping or TV and gladly embraced it as well. We spend our afternoons listening to preaching, reading something spiritual, or visiting the sick. It has made a wonderful difference in my home.

Now that is encouraging :up:
 
Vaughn,

I see that I missed your offer the first time around and now my brain is ticking as well.

You can sometimes see in a thread that duncan001 and I both are stuck for gaining access to certain materials referred to or linked to. Some of it is hit and miss - sometimes I can get to blogspot sites and sometimes I can't. I can almost never get to wordpress sites - they are almost always blocked. If there's something I really want to see, I try to find proxies - but they are almost always blocked within a few hours of use and stop working. Anonymouse was ok for a while and then it too died.

I may be PMing you or emailing you if I find anything that I'm really after.

Thanks!
 
Brother Farley, I don't know if this is off topic, but I wanted to know how you deal with those who come back to those who celebrate the Sabbath in a Sabbatarian kind of way and say (in not so many words) "I can do what I want on the Sabbath because it was made for man and not man for the Sabbath." I've heard this argument before (not directed at me) and was a little shocked. But what verses would you use?

(If this is too far off topic, just let me know and I'll split off a new thread.)
 
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Call-Sabbath-Delight-Walter-Chantry/dp/0851515886/ref=sr_1_1/102-8333375-9880136?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188566509&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Call the Sabbath a Delight: Books: Walter J. Chantry[/ame]

This is Very good book on the scriptural view of the sabbath, also.
'Call the Sabbath a Delight' by Walter Chantry
 
I was just getting ready to post a question about the Sabbath and if we were bound to it today.
The verse or discourse if you will, that comes to my mind when I think of the Sabbath is when Paul when discussing various aspects of the law including ceremonies, fesitvals and holy days.
Colossians 2:16, " Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food an drink, or a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

Romans 14:1-10
"1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master£ that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,

£“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,

and every tongue shall confess£ to God.”


12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."

I posted it all to try to keep it in context. I am not trying to be contentious, I am simply telling you my hang-up with it. If I am wrong simply let me know, and why.
Thanks
 
I was just getting ready to post a question about the Sabbath and if we were bound to it today.
The verse or discourse if you will, that comes to my mind when I think of the Sabbath is when Paul when discussing various aspects of the law including ceremonies, fesitvals and holy days.
Colossians 2:16, " Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food an drink, or a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

Romans 14:1-10
"1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master£ that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,

£“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,

and every tongue shall confess£ to God.”


12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."

I posted it all to try to keep it in context. I am not trying to be contentious, I am simply telling you my hang-up with it. If I am wrong simply let me know, and why.
Thanks

Sabbath in this passage is plural--sabbaths. He is talking about observing the enitre Jewish feast, holy day and sabbath system. The 7th day sabbath is not in view here in my opinion. He is merely pointing out the passing of the ceremonial law.
 
This is a very good read. The Commandment that time made optional.



The Commandment That Time Made 'Optional'


Here's one of those surprising things you learn when you study church history. You read the words of Charles Spurgeon talking about "profane Sabbath-breakers", and the Puritans talking about Sabbath-breaking in the same sentence as lying, lusting, and other moral failings. You read many of the greatest theologians and seminary professors essentially saying: "of course we believe in the Sabbath, it is one of the 10 commandments". Now fast forward a hundred years or two, and you find modern Christians, usually with a fraction as much bible knowledge, who are so sure of themselves that the Sabbath is no longer for today. So who's right, the new Christians, or the old ones?



As you can see by my recent participation in a thread on Ingrid's blog, this is a debate where I happen to come out on the side of the extreme minority, today. Statistically speaking, it's likely that even you (the Old Truth reader) disagrees with me on this topic. But it probably wouldn't have been that way in the past. In his booklet on the 10 Commandments, AW Pink diagnoses our present Christian era: "The fact that any man can escape the observance of [the 4th] Commandment is a sad reflection upon our modern social order, and shows how far we have departed from the Divine plan and ideal". And in Pink's writing The Redeemer's Return he wrote: "There is such an awful 'falling away' from the observance of the Holy Sabbath". He went on to say:

"All around us are people who are worldly-minded, money-lovers, pleasure-seekers, Sabbath-breakers, yet who think all is well with them because they have 'accepted Christ as their personal Savior'. In their aspiration, conversation, and recreation, there is practically nothing to differentiate them from those who make no profession at all. Neither in their home-life nor social-life is there anything except empty pretensions to distinguish them from others. The fear of God is not upon them, the commands of God have no authority over them, the holiness of God has no attraction for them." --AW Pink, Gospel Preaching Commanded

Chances are, if you've benefited from a quotation or book excerpt that I've ever posted here on Old Truth, the person that I quoted was probably a Sabbatarian. That's likely true of your favorite hymn writers and authors of commentaries as well.

You see, in many past times and places, the Christian Sabbath was a wonderful thing to behold. It was said of one town in England during the Puritan era: "On the Lord's Day all disorder became quite banished out of the town. As you passed along the streets on the Sabbath morning, you might hear a hundred households singing psalms at their family worship". It reminds me of the scripture that my pastor's father based a book on, which he entitled Call The Sabbath a Delight.

So why have today's Christians rejected the Sabbath?

In the aforementioned book, Walter Chantry explains the reason why many today have jettisoned the 4th Commandment. In his chapter which demonstrates that even the New Testament teaches the Sabbath, Chantry responds to the common thinking that it was "just for the Jews", saying:

"Such a response calls our attention to one of the great difficulties which arises when modern evangelicals discuss the bible and it's teaching. In the United States, the Bible School movement and the Scofield Bible have spread far and wide a system of thought called 'dispensationalism'. Dispensationalism is a theology which distorts one's understanding of Scripture and places blinders on Bible students. ... It is dispensationalism which has given the popular impression that a Christian may dismiss Old Testament teaching or Commandments unless it is repeated in the New Testament. ..."

Dispensationalism, of course is rather new in church history, and as you know, I am very suspicious of new ways to interpret the bible. There are many great dispensationalists that I respect (such as John MacArthur), but here is one area where I depart with their teaching in favor of the 'old truth'.

By now you probably have questions (or even protests) that you are itching to comment on. This should make for some useful and friendly debate in the comments below, but before we get into the details, let me make a couple of things clear and set some ground rules:

Sabbatarians do NOT believe that those highly detailed rules (the ceremonial law) in the Old Testament are still for Christians today, however the 10 Commandments are not in the ceremonial law.
The Sabbath pre-dates the 10 Commandments, as the bible establishes this pattern: "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day".
Let's save "what Christians should and should not do on the Sabbath" for another post. In this post I am simply interested in discussing whether the 10 commandments are still for Christians to follow.
Sabbatarians do NOT believe that Christians are justified (saved) by following the 10 Commandments. With the Holy Spirit's help we endeavor to follow them because we want to please the God who has saved us, though we know we won't follow them perfectly in this life.
Be careful not to make the mistake of thinking that this is an easy issue to decide against. Consider whether it's an arrogant thing to say "all of those dead guys were wrong and I am right". Maybe you ARE right, but just to make sure, do some reading on this topic; one book that I especially recommend is The Lord's Day, by Joseph Pipa. Also see the Richard Barcellos links given by my blogging partner over at SBF.
And finally, resist the temptation to think that it's "fine for you but not for me". Either it's 100% right for everyone to obey this commandment, or it's equally right that none of us should. Could murder (or another commandment) be fine for one person but not another?
Isn't it interesting how many Christians today will fight to keep the 10 Commandments posted in the schools and court houses, but when it comes right down to it, many of these same Christians don't even believe that the 10 commandments are for them to follow as a rule of life? Go figure.
 
When I was going to a Dispensational semianry, I remember one of the professors there saying that the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ, and we should labor for the gospel daily, and rest would come in eternity.
 
This is a very good read. The Commandment that time made optional.

The Lord's Day, by Joseph Pipa.

Outstanding book!

If the Ten Commandments are the expression of God's character, and I believe that they are, then disavowing one of the ten is disavowing part of the character of God. :2cents:

Matthew 5:17-19

17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
BTW brethren, I want to reiterate that I am not going to be argumentative about this and intend to allow the same grace that was given to me about this. A man must be fully convinced of this in his heart by way of the holy scripture. All I know is that I've made such a mess in years past of my christian life and theology that I want to endeavor to follow God's Word in every area of my life as God by His wonderful grace will reveal to me. I want to honor Christ with every fiber of my being. I want to forget the things which are behind and press forward toward the prize of the high calling. I desire all my brethren and sister's prayers and fellowship.

thanks for the testimony brother. How does Pink's work compare to Bunyan's work on the subject, if you read both of course? I am curious. I have read most of Bunyan's, but not Pink yet.
 
BTW brethren, I want to reiterate that I am not going to be argumentative about this and intend to allow the same grace that was given to me about this. A man must be fully convinced of this in his heart by way of the holy scripture. All I know is that I've made such a mess in years past of my christian life and theology that I want to endeavor to follow God's Word in every area of my life as God by His wonderful grace will reveal to me. I want to honor Christ with every fiber of my being. I want to forget the things which are behind and press forward toward the prize of the high calling. I desire all my brethren and sister's prayers and fellowship.

thanks for the testimony brother. How does Pink's work compare to Bunyan's work on the subject, if you read both of course? I am curious. I have read most of Bunyan's, but not Pink yet.


I have not read Bunyans work on the subject brother. I have it in my online bible but havn't got to it yet.
 
Vaughn,

I see that I missed your offer the first time around and now my brain is ticking as well.

You can sometimes see in a thread that duncan001 and I both are stuck for gaining access to certain materials referred to or linked to. Some of it is hit and miss - sometimes I can get to blogspot sites and sometimes I can't. I can almost never get to wordpress sites - they are almost always blocked. If there's something I really want to see, I try to find proxies - but they are almost always blocked within a few hours of use and stop working. Anonymouse was ok for a while and then it too died.

I may be PMing you or emailing you if I find anything that I'm really after.

Thanks!
No problems. I've got some Firefox plugins that let me save whole webpages pretty well, so give me a PM any time.
 
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