Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
So how can one afford to live while in seminary and being the provider of the house? Assuming that the person doesn't have a few hundred thousand to live on for a few years.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Affording Seminary
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Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
I would assume starting with getting oneself under care of their local denomination or attend a free seminary.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Matt 10:5-8 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
This is the motto of the seminary where I attend...
This is the motto of the seminary where I attend...
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
What seminary is s that?
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
iainduguid
Puritan Board Junior
I turned down a full ride scholarship (plus stipend) at New College Edinburgh to study at Westminster Theological Seminary, paying full tuition. I've never for a moment regretted that decision. The first two years my wife worked full time to support me, then when we had our first child I worked full time and studied full time to enable her to be at home with our son. It wasn't easy, but I'm very glad I did it. Most people only get one shot at a theological education, so you want to choose the very best. Having said that, of course, different people have different gifts, callings and life situations, so I'm grateful for the wide variety of educational experiences available here in the US. Not everyone can or should study at WTS. But I wouldn't advise choosing a seminary simply, or even primarily, on the basis of cost. Get good counsel from your elders and pastor and trust God to provide the resources as you seek to make wise decisions.
psycheives
Puritan Board Freshman
If you believe you are called to be a minister, go to the best seminary and think critically about what they teach. Don't just suck it all in as truth. I agree with Iain - you can make it work when u need to. Seminaries offer scholarships and churches sponsor students. If needed, student loans are also available and worth it. I did part scholarship, part loans. If u are called to be a minister, consider Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary PRTS (Joel Beeke) or Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary GPTS (Joey Pipa). If u consider WTS, make sure u know the distinctives (and criticisms) of each teacher ahead of time. No seminary is perfect but its sad when one goes in blind and comes to disagree with what they are being taught to such a degree that they end up transferring to another seminary.
If you aren't going to be a minister, I do not recommend seminary. You can learn more better at home. Study the Bible, confessions, systematic theologies (Calvin, Turretin, Bavinck, Berkhof, Hoeksema), and read uniquely PROTESTANT church history (not Rome/Anglican history). Do this ultra diligently for 4 years and you'll be better equipped than most seminary students.
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If you aren't going to be a minister, I do not recommend seminary. You can learn more better at home. Study the Bible, confessions, systematic theologies (Calvin, Turretin, Bavinck, Berkhof, Hoeksema), and read uniquely PROTESTANT church history (not Rome/Anglican history). Do this ultra diligently for 4 years and you'll be better equipped than most seminary students.
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Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
Thank you. I think the real matter is how to support a wife and two children. How could one pay rent, insurance, food, car, etc?
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Ryan,
I want to tell u, "what is not possible w/ man is possible w/ God" but that doesn't really address the practicality and wisdom one should use when considering their responsibilities and neglect. What is the primary? School or family? This is why I am suggesting a free seminary, online, work at your own pace. This is how I am doing it. One wonders about one's wife being the bread winner....Is that biblical (ever)?
If God wants u in ministry, you will be in ministry and not based on the school u went to; however, if that is your desire, u do need school.
My dumb 2 cents worth.
I want to tell u, "what is not possible w/ man is possible w/ God" but that doesn't really address the practicality and wisdom one should use when considering their responsibilities and neglect. What is the primary? School or family? This is why I am suggesting a free seminary, online, work at your own pace. This is how I am doing it. One wonders about one's wife being the bread winner....Is that biblical (ever)?
If God wants u in ministry, you will be in ministry and not based on the school u went to; however, if that is your desire, u do need school.
My dumb 2 cents worth.
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I have said this many times before, but I will say it again. The man can work a job while he studies. I worked three while I was in seminary and graduated in three years. Now you may not be able to do that, but you could graduate in four. Your wife could earn some money at home. It can be done. You just have to work hard, and not worry if you don't get all A's.
Rom
Puritan Board Junior
Pastor Greco has some good advice. First, acknowledge God's sovereignty. Do not get frustrated if you cannot get to Seminary right now. Perhaps, if you keep it in prayer and He has placed this desire to serve the kingdom (in this way) He will surely open the door for you and you can do some soul searching as to whether you will have to make painful decisions in order to pursue a calling to ministry.
There are things you can do to make this work. First, make sure that your session and Presbytery are supportive. If they are, it is amazing to see the kinds of resources that might be available for you. Either through scholarships or denominational discounts. For instance, being under care of the Presbytery (and going to the denominational seminary), my tuition is only 1/3 what it would be normally. Is it still a lot of money? Yes. But with that discount some congregations might be inclined to cover much of the rest of the cost of tuition for you.
Second, do not think you have to go fulltime. I only take 3 classes a quarter instead of 5 (which would be a full load). That means that it will take me about 5 years to get through the program. But that's all I can do right now being a husband, father to four, a ruling elder, occasional preaching, and a fulltime business owner.
Third, there are more hours in the day than you realize. Many, like Pastor Greco, have done the three-year program while working fulltime. His advice about grades is a good one too. So far, I have had all A's. But the gulf in time spent between earning a B and an A is tremendous. I might have to let my "standards" drop a bit in the future and not worry about getting As in every single class. But for now, I can manage it.
There are things you can do to make this work. First, make sure that your session and Presbytery are supportive. If they are, it is amazing to see the kinds of resources that might be available for you. Either through scholarships or denominational discounts. For instance, being under care of the Presbytery (and going to the denominational seminary), my tuition is only 1/3 what it would be normally. Is it still a lot of money? Yes. But with that discount some congregations might be inclined to cover much of the rest of the cost of tuition for you.
Second, do not think you have to go fulltime. I only take 3 classes a quarter instead of 5 (which would be a full load). That means that it will take me about 5 years to get through the program. But that's all I can do right now being a husband, father to four, a ruling elder, occasional preaching, and a fulltime business owner.
Third, there are more hours in the day than you realize. Many, like Pastor Greco, have done the three-year program while working fulltime. His advice about grades is a good one too. So far, I have had all A's. But the gulf in time spent between earning a B and an A is tremendous. I might have to let my "standards" drop a bit in the future and not worry about getting As in every single class. But for now, I can manage it.
ValleyofVision
Puritan Board Freshman
Amen. My cousin did the same thing, but it took him four years. Was it hard? Yes. I remember Him saying at times how hard and tough it was but He knew it was exactly where the Lord wanted him. He did this with three children at home and a wife who did in home babysitting/nannying. He also worked nights.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Ryan,
The fact that you have framed the questions in general/hypothetical terms (how can one...) seriously limits the kind of helpful answers that could be given. Different individuals have different resources available to them.
For my own part, I'm exploring ways to use my land (really the only capital I have) in order to generate income with minimal personal involvement on my part; but that's an option that isn't available to people who don't have land. Also, my denominational seminary waves tuition for Free Church students.
zsmcd
Puritan Board Freshman
My plan: Get good at a trade so as to be able to care for my family. Then start taking 2-3 classes at a time to slowly chip away at the degree. 2-3 classes at a place like GPTS or PRTS is really not too bad for someone making a decent paycheck. Plus, with the support of your church and the seminary each paying 1/3 of tuition the costs really are not too bad. Or, as others have mentioned, just check with your presbytery to see if they will accept TNARS.
Parakaleo
Puritan Board Sophomore
I will add that you can surprise yourself in how much you can economize. I worked nearly full-time through six years of seminary, going from two children to five by the time I graduated. Our "standard of living" seemed to drop each year and we made drastic cuts in many areas. Still, we had everything we actually needed and I think we are far happier living modestly. There really is something to this whole minimalism movement.
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
Being a provider requires you to consider that the role of provider does not exclude the temporary contribution of others, such as your family, local church, the scholarships available by a seminary, assisted student living accommodations, other means of tuition assistance, etc.
The key to your OP is having a detailed plan. Lay out all expenses for seminary (books, tuition, fees, etc.) and your home life (rent, food, utilities, credit card debt, pregnancies, medical insurances and expenses, life insurances, automobile upkeep, savings for emergencies, walking around money, etc.). Be painfully detailed: what will it cost in real money (cash you will have to outlay from a checking account).
Once you have this before you, the issues and opportunities will become more clear. This may obviate the need for perhaps taking less than a full course load, such that you can work part-time job(s) to afford the endeavor. It may also indicate that the seminary choice in question is, well, out of the question. While the "the Lord called you and He will provide" is operative, the means for the same are part and parcel of your wise stewardship.
If you are going to seminary, one assumes you have been called to the ministry of reconciliation, and that call validated by your church. Seek their wise counsel and any assistance they may offer. It may well be that perhaps another means of achieving the denominational training you need is possible. For example, TNARS has been suggested above, or PRBS if I may. Then again, perhaps your ultimate goal is to teach in academia, hence, dealing with accredited and unaccredited education is paramount for academia.
If you are unable to answer the question definitively, "What must I spend throughout my seminary education, including living expenses, versus what do I know I will have to spend?", then your seminary endeavor is lacking careful examination.
I will lift up prayers that it be the will of God to share in His abundance with you.
The key to your OP is having a detailed plan. Lay out all expenses for seminary (books, tuition, fees, etc.) and your home life (rent, food, utilities, credit card debt, pregnancies, medical insurances and expenses, life insurances, automobile upkeep, savings for emergencies, walking around money, etc.). Be painfully detailed: what will it cost in real money (cash you will have to outlay from a checking account).
Once you have this before you, the issues and opportunities will become more clear. This may obviate the need for perhaps taking less than a full course load, such that you can work part-time job(s) to afford the endeavor. It may also indicate that the seminary choice in question is, well, out of the question. While the "the Lord called you and He will provide" is operative, the means for the same are part and parcel of your wise stewardship.
If you are going to seminary, one assumes you have been called to the ministry of reconciliation, and that call validated by your church. Seek their wise counsel and any assistance they may offer. It may well be that perhaps another means of achieving the denominational training you need is possible. For example, TNARS has been suggested above, or PRBS if I may. Then again, perhaps your ultimate goal is to teach in academia, hence, dealing with accredited and unaccredited education is paramount for academia.
If you are unable to answer the question definitively, "What must I spend throughout my seminary education, including living expenses, versus what do I know I will have to spend?", then your seminary endeavor is lacking careful examination.
I will lift up prayers that it be the will of God to share in His abundance with you.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
If you want to do academic work, you almost have to go to an accredited seminary. That means big money. So you have to ask yourself, "How will I repay these loans on a teaching assistant's salary in a low-demand job market?"
If you are seeking pastoral/church work, then you need to talk with your session.
While I normally categorically reject anything James KA Smith says, this blog series on grad schools is good. This is really relevant if you pursue academic work, not so much on church work.
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-think.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_07.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_08.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-money.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_10.html
If you are seeking pastoral/church work, then you need to talk with your session.
While I normally categorically reject anything James KA Smith says, this blog series on grad schools is good. This is really relevant if you pursue academic work, not so much on church work.
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-think.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_07.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_08.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-money.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_10.html
ArminianOnceWas
Puritan Board Freshman
What does accepted by PCA and OPC mean? Is there any official denominational or presbytery statement on this? Or do you mean that *some* candidates in *some* presbyteries have been received into ordination? As you know, one instance of a candidate with credentials from TNARS being received by one presbytery is hardly a blanket denominational statement of the institution.
ArminianOnceWas
Puritan Board Freshman
It's difficult to give a blanket answer because every situation is unique.
I know men who have supported a family and attended seminary full time or near full time but I don't know how without taking on a lot of debt which I don't think is ideal unless you have an inheritance coming at some point in the future.
I see you are in the PCA so I expect you would be under care there. I would suggest GPTS which is cheaper and endorsed by PCA. BTW I think GPTS is tuition-free if your church or presbytery supports them. You can remain where you are and take some online classes there. Also, LAMP Seminary has a quasi-affiliation with PCA and is much less expensive. Perhaps there is a branch near you.
Now that I check and see you are in Florida, depending on where exactly you are, the good news is that you are in a strong Reformed part of the country which may broaden your options.
This is repetitive and I don't know your details but I'd say the best solution is where you retain your current employment and take classes online and then figure out residency later. Cut spending as much as possible. It's likely going to be a long process that will demand a lot from your family and marriage. Start by taking one or two classes, work your way to three or four at a time.
I know men who have supported a family and attended seminary full time or near full time but I don't know how without taking on a lot of debt which I don't think is ideal unless you have an inheritance coming at some point in the future.
I see you are in the PCA so I expect you would be under care there. I would suggest GPTS which is cheaper and endorsed by PCA. BTW I think GPTS is tuition-free if your church or presbytery supports them. You can remain where you are and take some online classes there. Also, LAMP Seminary has a quasi-affiliation with PCA and is much less expensive. Perhaps there is a branch near you.
Now that I check and see you are in Florida, depending on where exactly you are, the good news is that you are in a strong Reformed part of the country which may broaden your options.
This is repetitive and I don't know your details but I'd say the best solution is where you retain your current employment and take classes online and then figure out residency later. Cut spending as much as possible. It's likely going to be a long process that will demand a lot from your family and marriage. Start by taking one or two classes, work your way to three or four at a time.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Yes, thats what I meant...
Polanus1561
Puritan Board Junior
Nothing has been said so far about OP speaking to his session..
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
As well, in post 2....
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
My pastor would agree that it is the husband's job to still provide through seminary. I'm just having a hard time even seeing how this is financially possible. If I were given a check for $200,000, then that would be a different story.
It's sad that we face these troubles today.
It's sad that we face these troubles today.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Do u see the problem here?
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
Yes. It would be nice if pastors were raised up by the elders of their church, for free. Like a five year practical internship along with theological studies.
Parakaleo
Puritan Board Sophomore
Dear Ryan, I might refer you back to my earlier comment above (#16). Have you given much thought to what you can do without? I'm telling you brother, gird up the loins of your mind for lean times ahead.
Brother,
If you need a check for $200,000 to go to seminary the answer is obvious: don't go to seminary. You're not ready to be in the ministry, which is (frankly) for virtually every pastor a struggle with finances. I gave up a career as an attorney, which made retirement impossible and college tuition challenging (to say the least). But I would not trade it back any day!
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Ryan - as others have noted, it is possible to do. For example, I did seminary in 4 years. That was with me also taking a class each summer for a couple years. This made my class load during the semesters lighter so that it wasn't so hard to fit into a work schedule. (By the end of my 2nd year I was also a chaplain candidate... working between semesters I brought in about 35k per year... that helped tremendously!) During the semesters I worked a security job - a GREAT job for students because it was my study time! If you need insurance, consider UPS - a great part-time job that pays decently, gives vacation time, and provides benefits. Another option would be to consider the chaplaincy. Joining the Reserves or Guard as a chaplain candidate will give you a monthly income and provide excellent insurance for pennies on the dollar for what most civilian plans cost. Anyway, it can be made to work. If that mountain seems too big, then perhaps for you it is.
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