As if we need one more reason NOT to buy a Christ-mass tree

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally posted by piningforChrist
To what issues is the text in Romans 14 applicable?

That text deals with things of which God has no directive, either explicit or implicit. Pick a multitude.

The problem is that we disagree that God has something to say about celebrting "holy days." He does implicitly. Since he has made the Sabbath a holy day, it is an element of worship. Therefore, via the Regulative Principle (whatever is not commanded is forbidden) we deduce that he condemns this form of will worship.
 
Originally posted by piningforChrist
Does God have a directive concerning the gathering of believers to thank God corporately?

I would assume this would fall under the command of praise.


Psa 22:25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will perform before those who fear him.

Psa 22:23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel!

Psa 148:2 Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his hosts!

Psa 148:3 Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars!

Col 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
 
to Jeff Bartel :

Back again. I read the quotes about Romans 14 and how it is suppose to be referring to Jewish days, but I still don't get it. Except for 1 scripture by Matthew Henry there are no biblical citations. Is not Paul referring to Gentiles when he writes about eating meat offered to idols? If so then why would he not be talking to the Gentiles when referring to the days observed, since it is in the middle of the whole discussion? It seems so odd to me to switch like that.

This is not a hill for me, but I still, after wading through the 8 (!) pages of this thread, am puzzled.
 
Originally posted by gwine
to Jeff Bartel :

Back again. I read the quotes about Romans 14 and how it is suppose to be referring to Jewish days, but I still don't get it. Except for 1 scripture by Matthew Henry there are no biblical citations. Is not Paul referring to Gentiles when he writes about eating meat offered to idols? If so then why would he not be talking to the Gentiles when referring to the days observed, since it is in the middle of the whole discussion? It seems so odd to me to switch like that.

This is not a hill for me, but I still, after wading through the 8 (!) pages of this thread, am puzzled.

Gerry,

What other days WOULD Paul be speaking of? Surely not Christmas/Easter (i.e. man-made holy days) because they had not even been dreamed up yet. Paul was not speaking of the Sabbath, becuase it was universally recognized as a binding part of the moral law.

John Gill again:

another esteemeth every day alike; that is, one that is strong in faith, and has a greater degree of the knowledge of the Gospel, and of evangelical liberty, knows that the distinction of days, as well as of meats, is taken away

Originally posted by gwine
Is not Paul referring to Gentiles when he writes about eating meat offered to idols?

Sorry to keep quoting Gill to you, but he is much more learned than I, and I would just basically be regurgitating him back to you, only less eloquently. ;)

Here he is on the introduction to Romans 14:

The church at Rome consisted both of Jews and Gentiles: and the former, though they believed in Christ, were not clear about the abrogation of the ceremonial law, and thought they ought still to observe the distinction of meats and days, which were made in it; the latter looked upon themselves under no manner of obligation to regard them; and even among thee Jews, some might have greater light and knowledge in these things than others, and used their Christian liberty, when others could not; and this occasioned great animosities and contentions among them; and some on account of these things were called strong, and others weak: and the chief view of the apostle in this chapter, is to give advice to each party how to behave one towards another;

Keep studying Gerry.

The two articles that convinced me once and for all were WHY DO PRESBYTERIANS OBSERVE HOLY DAYS? by Andrew Webb and The Regulative Principle and Christmas by Matthew MacMahon.
 
Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel
Originally posted by tcalbrecht
Besides, WCF XXI is speaking of divine worship.

I'm not sure that I agree entirely. See Matt's treatment of this section (see quoted above) :

However, The Westminster Confession says the following, "œThe reading of the Scriptures with godly fear, the sound preaching and conscionable hearing of the Word, in obedience unto God, with understanding, faith, and reverence, singing of psalms with grace in the heart; as also, the due administration and worthy receiving of the sacraments instituted by Christ, are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God: beside religious oaths, vows, solemn fastings, and thanksgivings upon special occasions, which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in an holy and religious manner. (WCF Chapter 21, Section 5; They use Esther 9:20-22 as a proof text for "œand thanksgivings upon special occasions", not for worship.) The Westminster Confession makes the distinction between worship which appears in the first part of the paragraph, and then separates other days of spiritual edification by the word "œbesides." They are not the same, and appeal to them is unwarranted.

With a due respect, I think the word "besides" is used to set off "ordinary religious worship of God" from what follows, which is extraordinary in appearance. Just look at the next chapter, which begins, "A lawful oath is a part of religious worship". Oaths are mentioned in the latter portion of XXI:5 after "besides".
 
tcalbrecht,

I can see your point here, and am interested. I'll have to look into that further. Thanks for the thoughts!

:handshake:
 
Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel
What other days WOULD Paul be speaking of? Surely not Christmas/Easter (i.e. man-made holy days) because they had not even been dreamed up yet. Paul was not speaking of the Sabbath, because it was universally recognized as a binding part of the moral law.

Actually I was thinking of pagan festivals. That's who Paul was referring to about the meat issue, was he not? But maybe I am stretching too far.


Keep studying Gerry.

The two articles that convinced me once and for all were WHY DO PRESBYTERIANS OBSERVE HOLY DAYS? by Andrew Webb and The Regulative Principle and Christmas by Matthew MacMahon.

Oh, I will keep studying. I will read these articles and see what they have to say. And For what it's worth, I'm not sure I need convincing so much as I want to understand it well enough to explain it to someone else. I have a lot of trouble doing that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top