Baptist not Arminian?

[coramdeo]

I am finding that many of my evangelical Baptist friends get very upset when I call them "Arminian". They say "Oh no! Methodist are Arminian, not us!". They do not equate their
belief in "freewill" with works. Go figure!

 

[bug]

Not surprised really, unless there really are from the republic of Armenia? Seriously though they are probably simply semi pelagian rather then specifically classical Arminians, what are their views on prevenient grace for example?

 

[Herald]

Why would you call your Baptist friends Arminian? If you find the term is getting your friends upset, how is that a positive witness for the truth of sovereign grace? Plus, just because a person is a member of a mainline Baptist church doesn't mean they are historical Arminians. Many Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians etc. have little to no idea of what an Arminian believes. You are better served by maintaining a cordial relationship that allows you opportunities to point them towards a better understanding of scripture. Recommend some good books to read, such as R.C. Sproul's "Willing to Believe" or "Chosen by God."

Be careful with terminology. It has the potential to batter and bruise.

 

[coramdeo]

Not surprised really, unless there really are from the republic of Armenia? Seriously though they are probably simply semi pelagian rather then specifically classical Arminians, what are their views on prevenient grace for example?

LOL, tried to edit that, but the editor would not let me change the topic line, only content. Is that something that changed with the new version? Or is just me?

 

[coramdeo]

Why would you call your Baptist friends Arminian? If you find the term is getting your friends upset, how is that a positive witness for the truth of sovereign grace? Plus, just because a person is a member of a mainline Baptist church doesn't mean they are historical Arminians. Many Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians etc. have little to no idea of what an Arminian believes. You are better served by maintaining a cordial relationship that allows you opportunities to point them towards a better understanding of scripture. Recommend some good books to read, such as R.C. Sproul's "Willing to Believe" or "Chosen by God."

Be careful with terminology. It has the potential to batter and bruise.

Sorry, did not mean to imply they were really upset. The operative word here is friends... meaning good friends with whom I have long running discussions about the Doctrines of Grace, etc. I just found the remarks interesting.

 

[strangecharm]

Baptists can not be wholly Arminian, because Eternal Security is a staple of Baptist tradition. In this, General or Free-Will Baptists set themselves apart as uniquely inconsistent, because they maintain you can choose to get in, but not choose to get out.

Best case, they affirm Total Depravity. Combine that with prevenient grace and some strange security, and you get the least Pelagian of the views. This isn't my expertise, but I'm fairly certain as a Baptist, that security is necessary to be termed truly "Baptist"

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Reminds me of a time when I was in the Navy. I went to Tabernacle in Virginia Beach for a visit. They had a visiting preacher. He was a little, round, white haired man who had a very loud voice. At one point during the sermon he was ranting, raving, and breathing very heavy as his face was turning very red while he was proclaiming,..
"I am not an arminian! I am not a Calvinist! I am a BAAABBBBPPPPTTTTIIIIISSST! I was born a Babptist! I was raised a Babptist! I will die a Baaabbbbppppttttiiissssst!

I just sat there in my seat all wore out from watching him and said, "wow!" That sure was exciting to watch.

 

[strangecharm]

Did anyone think to ask him what flavor of Baptist?

 

[Grillsy]

I know many Free-Will Baptists who do not believe in eternal security. Also there were some early "Restorationists" who wore the Baptist label but were about as Pelagian as
anyone could be.

Off topic, I know.

 

[strangecharm]

Forgive me, the Southern Baptist Convention requires belief in some frorm of Eternal Security.

 

[buggy]

Reminds me of a time when I was in the Navy. I went to Tabernacle in Virginia Beach for a visit. They had a visiting preacher. He was a little, round, white haired man who had a very loud voice. At one point during the sermon he was ranting, raving, and breathing very heavy as his face was turning very red while he was proclaiming,..
"I am not an arminian! I am not a Calvinist! I am a BAAABBBBPPPPTTTTIIIIISSST! I was born a Babptist! I was raised a Babptist! I will die a Baaabbbbppppttttiiissssst!

I just sat there in my seat all wore out from watching him and said, "wow!" That sure was exciting to watch.

Wow. That preacher... is he an indy-fundie by any chance? *LOL*

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

That was in VA. Beach.

 

[Wayne]

Martin:

It wasn't Hyman Appleman, by any possibility, was it?

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I couldn't tell you who the speaker was Wayne. There have been a lot of IFB guys who would fit the description I made. But I think I could identify him if I saw a pic of him. He left a long lasting impression.

 

[kvanlaan]

The freewill Baptist I know rejected Calvinism and took up the Arminian mantle because he found it very 'freeing'. From his description, it seems to be an 'all grace' idea, but coupled with a Billy-Graham-type 'Jesus can bring you in the room, but you have to pull the string on the light-bulb; He can only do so much.'