Church Super Bowl Parties can Continue...lovely

[Laura]

I look to Christ to fulfill the law perfectly, I don't understand how I can perfectly honor the day of rest as you prescribe here.

Do I need to read and discuss apologetics the whole day? Sing hymns in the shower and refrain from any escapist thoughts or conversation not emphasizing the sermon of the day? What standard is there for me, has Christ not come to fulfill what I cannot possibly satisfy?

Um. Check out Matthew 5:21-48. Especially 48. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Christ's perfection on our behalf does not excuse slothfulness any more than the perfection of the law drives those who truly hope in God to despair. In other words, the standard for us is the same as it was for Christ. Titus 2:11-15 says that He in fact gave himself "that He might redeem us from all lawlessness and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works." Where do we learn what good works are? In the law of God.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

I imagine that anything you'd be ashamed of doing on your day of rest should probably not be taken up on any other occasion./QUOTE]

This is backwards logic. I'm ashamed of many things I do. The question is what's permissible on Monday is not necessarily so on the Lord's Day.



You have to admit, unless you watch the Super Bowl on a DVR, there's nothing brief about it.

Most people have it on in the background while enjoying the company of friends and a good meal, it is typically an ambiance or excuse to get together with a party of friends. Whether the act of relaxation is epic in length or brief I think is at the discretion of the conscience of the believer, mine is not disturbed by watching part of a football game.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Um. Check out Matthew 5:21-48. Especially 48. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Christ's perfection on our behalf does not excuse slothfulness any more than the perfection of the law drives those who truly hope in God to despair.

I disagree, I am not endorsing slothful behavior, nor am I denying a day of rest.

These are the kind of issues that are not lynch pin essentials to the faith. I adhere to the doctrines of grace, I believe Christ alone can and has justified men and on this I find no room to waver or make exception, but with other issues I am open to discussion.

I admire much of the WCF but do not find it to be the inerrant line in the sand that defines all of Christendom so many would like it to be.

I am not fully convinced of covenantal theology either but I am not hostile toward it and empathize with both arguments.

I recognize that a Chrisitan can be a preterist, postmil, Dispensational and pan without sacrificing the essence of the gospel, some of those worldviews can be critiqued with close scrutiny but I do not see these as issues that cast doubt on salvation.

I think Reformed Christians rightfully get labeled as smarmy and haughty when we come out and declare our creeds are the best without exception or compromise even when issues are not pertaining to the sovereignty of God and salvation in Christ.

The sabbath is a day of rest, as a commandment it points me to Christ, He fulfills it in the perfect manner I cannot, I am not excused of disregarding it but I am blessed instead with the benefit of fellowship and worship with the saints this day and with a chance to relax from the stresses of the week.

Watching the Super Bowl with my friends has no bearing on my salvation nor sanctification.

 

[Ravens]

No one is flatly condemning your religion in this thread. Sanctification is both practical and doctrinal, and we are all constantly growing and being pruned. I can only say that I have been where you are. When I first began to read this board, Sabbatarianism appeared to me as soul-killing. I chafed and squirmed against it.

The Superbowl discussions were always particularly unnerving. It just seemed to me to be an unbelievable rigor. Through this board, and the historic resources that it pointed me to, I was persuaded of the importance of keeping the Lord's Day, and of a continuing weekly Sabbath. However, my praxis far lagged behind my doctrinal shift, and still does.

Last year I watched the Super Bowl. This year I won't be watching it, and I can honestly say that I won't miss it. However, I'm not as "into" the NFL, and I understand how it would exercise more of a "pull" over somebody who was an avid follower. Last week, though, I did pass on watching a Mountaineer (WVU) basketball game on Sunday afternoon (which is a passion of mine).

All that to say nothing, I suppose. I have very far to go in honoring the Lord's Day. And I understand your concerns about the internet, and about hypocrisy. I don't feel too bad about reading this particular board, but even that can be more for "entertainment" sometimes and less about learning. However, casual internet use for entertainment probably would be a lesser form of, indeed, watching the Superbowl.

I would imagine most Sabbatarians, especially us younger ones, while we are rigid on the doctrinal truth of the Lord's Day, are actually very candid about our failures to live up to it, since most of us were never raised that way. And I can't say that I've ever seen an old oak in the faith say that they kept it perfectly.

However, as we often tell Arminians, inability to keep a command does not remove the culpability attached to it's violation. So I strive to honor it as best as I can, and always go to bed thinking of a few clear instances where I simply failed to do so.

But who knows? A year from now you might be saying the same things to someone else who is planning to enjoy Superbowl Sunday, while you yourself have grown in your understanding of doctrine. We all have a variety of flaws and stains in a variety of areas. And you are probably right in some areas that I am mistaken on.

I wouldn't take people disagreeing with you (not that you have) personally. As Luther says, Christianity consists of assertions. Certain positions are either right, or they are wrong. We can't both be right. And, if a continuing Lord's Day is true, then I would have to say that watching the Super Bowl is a flat violation of it.

It's not about recreation. It's about the entire country tuning in religiously to a gala spectacle of legitimate athleticism couched in ego, pride, hype, excessive marketing, pop culture, and lust. On the day set aside to honor the eternal God, 75% of the country will be fastened to this abomination, and see it as so self-evidently important that church services will be cancelled without question. All for a game. And if you believe in the Lord's Day, I think its a rather obvious choice whether or not to tune in to this Massive Nationwide Middle-Finger that we give to God's command.

However, I don't fault those who do watch... because many Reformed people just absolutely forget that God deals with people over time. We're not converted into a cappella, exclusive psalmody, papal antichrist Christian magistrate presuppositional covenanted Christians. It's all a process stemming from regeneration, and most of us have been where you are.

Take care.

 

[Authorised]

However, I don't fault those who do watch... because many Reformed people just absolutely forget that God deals with people over time. We're not converted into a cappella, exclusive psalmody, papal antichrist Christian magistrate presuppositional covenanted Christians. It's all a process stemming from regeneration, and most of us have been where you are.

Take care.

How condescending.

 

[Davidius]

No one is flatly condemning your religion in this thread. Sanctification is both practical and doctrinal, and we are all constantly growing and being pruned. I can only say that I have been where you are. When I first began to read this board, Sabbatarianism appeared to me as soul-killing. I chafed and squirmed against it.

The Superbowl discussions were always particularly unnerving. It just seemed to me to be an unbelievable rigor. Through this board, and the historic resources that it pointed me to, I was persuaded of the importance of keeping the Lord's Day, and of a continuing weekly Sabbath. However, my praxis far lagged behind my doctrinal shift, and still does.

Last year I watched the Super Bowl. This year I won't be watching it, and I can honestly say that I won't miss it. However, I'm not as "into" the NFL, and I understand how it would exercise more of a "pull" over somebody who was an avid follower. Last week, though, I did pass on watching a Mountaineer (WVU) basketball game on Sunday afternoon (which is a passion of mine).

All that to say nothing, I suppose. I have very far to go in honoring the Lord's Day. And I understand your concerns about the internet, and about hypocrisy. I don't feel too bad about reading this particular board, but even that can be more for "entertainment" sometimes and less about learning. However, casual internet use for entertainment probably would be a lesser form of, indeed, watching the Superbowl.

I would imagine most Sabbatarians, especially us younger ones, while we are rigid on the doctrinal truth of the Lord's Day, are actually very candid about our failures to live up to it, since most of us were never raised that way. And I can't say that I've ever seen an old oak in the faith say that they kept it perfectly.

However, as we often tell Arminians, inability to keep a command does not remove the culpability attached to it's violation. So I strive to honor it as best as I can, and always go to bed thinking of a few clear instances where I simply failed to do so.

But who knows? A year from now you might be saying the same things to someone else who is planning to enjoy Superbowl Sunday, while you yourself have grown in your understanding of doctrine. We all have a variety of flaws and stains in a variety of areas. And you are probably right in some areas that I am mistaken on.

I wouldn't take people disagreeing with you (not that you have) personally. As Luther says, Christianity consists of assertions. Certain positions are either right, or they are wrong. We can't both be right. And, if a continuing Lord's Day is true, then I would have to say that watching the Super Bowl is a flat violation of it.

It's not about recreation. It's about the entire country tuning in religiously to a gala spectacle of legitimate athleticism couched in ego, pride, hype, excessive marketing, pop culture, and lust. On the day set aside to honor the eternal God, 75% of the country will be fastened to this abomination, and see it as so self-evidently important that church services will be cancelled without question. All for a game. And if you believe in the Lord's Day, I think its a rather obvious choice whether or not to tune in to this Massive Nationwide Middle-Finger that we give to God's command.

However, I don't fault those who do watch... because many Reformed people just absolutely forget that God deals with people over time. We're not converted into a cappella, exclusive psalmody, papal antichrist Christian magistrate presuppositional covenanted Christians. It's all a process stemming from regeneration, and most of us have been where you are.

Take care.

Excellent comments!

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Treating the Super bowl as an idol is in the heart of the beholder. Spectators are not automatically feasting at a pagan altar.

These are broad general strokes being painted by asserting as much.

I can misuse most anything, how is it that you sanctify this day without distraction and sport or fantasy or looking ahead in the week?

Is walking the dog, washing the car, looking at old photo albums, enjoying the pleasures of marital relations all in violation of this sanctity you have yet to define?

What is meant by rest if it is not peaceful relaxation and stress relief from our worries as well as an opportunity to fellowship?

You make the sabbath sound like a chore rather than even a duty of community or moment of ordained peace.

 

[JonathanHunt]

How condescending.

To be fair, I don't think it was intended to be. Our brother was making a point, not telling us that we all SHOULD be acapella, exclusive psalmodist yadda yadda...

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

To be fair, I don't think it was intended to be. Our brother was making a point, not telling us that we all SHOULD be acapella, exclusive psalmodist yadda yadda...

The assertion is that sanctification would lead all men to these conclusions eventually and that only a less sanctified individual would think otherwise.

 

[Ravens]

I didn't mean it to be condescending in the least. I only came to most of those positions in the past year, still have serious questions on some of them, and am not certain on others. I lean towards non-instrumental psalmody, but wouldn't swear that the "non-instrumental" or the "psalmody" part was right. It was just an example of relative "doctrinal maturity." And since this is a Reformed board, I picked a traditionally Reformed synopsis of "doctrinal maturity."

It was actually intended to make the opposite point, namely, that some Reformed Christians will talk till we are blue in the face about dealing with our sinful natures until death, and yet in the same breath be shocked when people don't have worship and the law of God completely fleshed out in their heads. In a sense it should be expected, and sometimes this board forgets that.

That's all I meant by it. I'm sure you're right on many things that I'm not. I'm a worm, and have made a few serious mistakes in the seven years I've been a Christian, that will forever prevent me from taking a "holier than thou" approach. If I ever seem to be putting myself forward as an example of flawless holiness, then rest assured, I've mis-typed.

 

[Me Died Blue]

It is a day of rest free of the aggravations of work and toiling in worldly affairs but even Christ asserted not to ignore pressing matters on the sabbath so it could well be interupted by the world.

I do take Sunday off as a time to recharge and rest, it is usually one of the lone times of fellowship and recreation afforded to many believers as well.

What is your opinion of Saturday sabbath holders (some genuine Christians adhere to such and not just SDA)? Are they wrong for holding that day sacred but not Sunday?

I look to Christ to fulfill the law perfectly, I don't understand how I can perfectly honor the day of rest as you prescribe here.

Do I need to read and discuss apologetics the whole day? Sing hymns in the shower and refrain from any escapist thoughts or conversation not emphasizing the sermon of the day? What standard is there for me, has Christ not come to fulfill what I cannot possibly satisfy?

Indeed, none of us can even come close to perfectly honoring any part of the Law. Laura has already expressed what I would have said regarding the implications that has for our natural and rightful delight in nonetheless aiming at that throughout this life in the midst of our gradual sanctification, the Sabbath being just like the rest of the moral laws in that respect.

Regarding the seventh day still being the Sabbath versus the first day as the Lord's Day, I fully admit I still have yet to (and need to) exegetically or theologically study that particular of the commandment in much depth, and have thus far relied on the early and nearly universal conclusions, testimony and practice of the Church on that specific matter. Even so, that does not change the principle, and I certainly cannot see how that question of days could in any way imply or encourage a change in or neglect of the day's function and nature - especially since God's blessing of such a day in distinction from the others goes back to Genesis 2, before the Law of Moses was ever given.

Furthermore, I fully agree with you (as I'm sure all Sabbatarians here do) that one purpose of the Lord's Day is indeed so that we may be "free of the aggravations of work and toiling in worldly affairs." The same is true of us not being expected to "ignore pressing matters on the sabbath," and as such, "it could well be interupted by the world," indeed (as acknowledged by the WCF, calling such things "duties of necessity"). But don't you agree that something like the present practice under discussion (the Superbowl) is not in any way a pressing matter? Furthermore, in the same way, the view the Reformed confessions take on the Lord's Day really would not even see such an activity as truly making us "free of the aggravations of work and toiling in worldly affairs," either - since what ultimately gives us that type of freedom in the fullest sense is precisely the meditation on God and His acts, and the expression of that thanks by means of acts of mercy to our brethren.

As I was thinking when I replied to Scott above, I confess I so often do not view that as the truest freedom when I'm tempted to watch a Bengals game or read about some new cigars on the Lord's Day. But that simply serves as another illustration of how we do not know what is best for us, what is our truest "freedom," and how even when we are reminded by God's Word, we continually forget it. And the devotion of the whole Lord's Day to worship, meditation on God, acts of mercy and acts of necessity as being the truest form of freedom and rest for us on that day is how the Reformed confessions and churches interpret the verse that reminds us that, indeed, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

 

[BJClark]

Personally, I could care less about a game, but I do enjoy the fellowship with family and friends getting together...be it on the Sabbath or any other day

Do you watch any TV on the Sabbath, even the News?

Or do you read your bible and sing praises to God All day?

How is posting here keeping with the Sabbath, enjoying your computer (a worldly recreation for some)? And how could it be construded as a lesser evil?

I mean, is it not taking away from your focus on God, as you believe the Sabbath to be about? I guess I am just perplexed over it all.

 

[beej6]

How is it that you sanctify the day, being on the internet itself appears as though an indulgence of worldly recreation has been done or is it justified by being a Reformed message board?

There was a thread that discussed this here a few weeks ago, perhaps someone more handy than I am can post its link...

The internet is not sinful in itself, is it? I would justify its use by this being a place of orthodox belief and (virtual) fellowship.

 

[beej6]

Treating the Super bowl as an idol is in the heart of the beholder. Spectators are not automatically feasting at a pagan altar.

These are broad general strokes being painted by asserting as much.

I can misuse most anything, how is it that you sanctify this day without distraction and sport or fantasy or looking ahead in the week?

Is walking the dog, washing the car, looking at old photo albums, enjoying the pleasures of marital relations all in violation of this sanctity you have yet to define?

What is meant by rest if it is not peaceful relaxation and stress relief from our worries as well as an opportunity to fellowship?

You make the sabbath sound like a chore rather than even a duty of community or moment of ordained peace.

Travis, may I ask you a question related back to the earlier posts: Should a church sponsor or host a Super Bowl party? Why or why not?

 

[BJClark]

beej6;

The internet is not sinful in itself, is it? I would justify its use by this being a place of orthodox belief and (virtual) fellowship.

Nor is watching the Superbowl sinful in itself. And gathering together with other saints from a persons congregation for fellowship would basically be the same justification would it not?

The only differences are those who gather in person can pray, break bread and have a deeper fellowship together before and during the game.

I'm not so sure about watching a game in the actual sancuary of a church gathering place, however, why not in a fellowship hall?

However, if your heart is convicted that it is a sin for you to gather with other saints and watch a foot ball game or another game on a Sunday, then for you it is a sin.

Romans 14:5-6, which states "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]." In other words, the non-Sabbatarian argument is founded upon the concept that anything which does not proceed from faith is sin (Romans 14:23). Ritual observance of a weekly Sabbath is thus not required. Nevertheless, if one believes they are sinning when they break the Sabbath, they are condemned; however if their conscience does not condemn them, they have done no wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath

 

[Me Died Blue]

Nor is watching the Superbowl sinful in itself. And gathering together with other saints from a persons congregation for fellowship would basically be the same justification would it not?

It would not be the same justification. The difference lies in what is focused on during such fellowship (if asked what the fourth commandment includes, I would point to WCF 21 and WLC 115-121 with the Scripture proofs). Indeed, that is also the same reason I do things like get on the board yesterday; for what were we discussing then? God and His ways. I would not have talked about cigars, Prison Break or the Bengals on the board yesterday.

 

[JasonGoodwin]

Watching the SuperBowl is a "worldly recreation" and, may be lawful on other days, but is a sin to do on the Lord's day.

Grace and Peace,

-CH

Do you want to throw in any other sporting event that falls on a Sunday as well? Most NFL games are played on Sundays. MLB (baseball for the non-North Americans) plays on most Sundays. Same for basketball and hockey (though not as much in hockey. The NHL has been doing what it can to limit games on Sundays. Not perfect, but they're not the NFL).

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Jason: This is not directed at you even though your question is most proximate.

One of the things that bothers me about this discussion by some is all the loopholism that is going on here. I'm reminded of a discussion that we had about the tithe months back where people are asking about whether or not we're required to give 10%.

We're in a period of redemptive history where we are supposed to be acting maturely. Children test boundaries. If you tell them what the line is, they want to walk up and dance on the line and then protest when they're disciplined: "I didn't walk over it...."

Principles of Sabbath rest are given so that we might grow in their observation. I like the way that Chris has expressed the uncomfortable nature of certain practices where you're trying to change the way you think/act. Maturity requires discipline. Godliness is not natural. When you're training for something it is harder. Your muscles are sore because you're doing something that you're unaccustomed to. After you've run for a while there is still a level of being uncomfortable but there is also trememdous pleasure in the doing of it after your body is in shape. Adding a few extra miles is a piece of cake if you're accustomed to running 6 per day.

Giving is the same thing. Tithing is very uncomfortable in practice at first but once it is a life habit, a request from the deacons for an extra-ordinary need does not seem to "hurt" so much because you're in the habit of giving. Indeed, one cannot give with delight unless trained to the point that our natrual selfishness is overcome.

The bottom line here is that there are some immature people here that ought to be learning in this thread instead of presuming to teach on the nature of God's commands. If ever we come to a command of God and have to ask for a million different variations and dance on the line then we have not even approached Scriptural wisdom. The case Law of the Old Testament was always meant to be applied with prudence and never so men could get away with doing their minimum.

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

Travis, may I ask you a question related back to the earlier posts: Should a church sponsor or host a Super Bowl party? Why or why not?

In a sanctuary I would not deem it appropriate because that is a house not specified for such plus I don't understand why a movie projector would be there with a cable connection anyhow.

If church members and elders met in picnic style at someone's home or in a fellowship hall or banquet setting I don't have a problem with it.

'Tis a footbal game and not burlesque, with the exception of poor halftime show choices, I never said bring the Super Bowl to church I said the believer was free to watch it however.