Deacon >>>>> Elder

[Scott Bushey]

Should this ever occur in an orthodox church?
What is your position on this? Should a ordained Deacon ever be promoted to Eldership?


The WCF ; Form of Pres Church Gov't

Deacons.

THE scripture doth hold out deacons as distinct officers in the church.

Whose office is perpetual. To whose office it belongs not to preach the word, or administer the sacraments, but to take special care in distributing to the necessities of the poor.

[Edited on 1-23-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[fredtgreco]

There is no such thing as a promotion from deacon to elder. Some churches do it as a matter of course; it is sickening.

However, it certainly is possible that a man who had gifts for the office of deacon, but who at that time did not happen to have gifts for elder (perhaps he was untried in teaching) could lay aside the office of deacon for the office of elder.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Fred,
I hope you don't mind, but I moved this thread to the Ecclesiastical section of the board; You answered as I was moving it, now I can't move it back.........

Would you comment on the statement " the office is perpetual".

 

[fredtgreco]

No problem - the ecclesiology forum is fine.

By perpetual, I take it to mean that it is for life, and does not require re-ordination. I do not take it to mean that it requires one to remain in the office for life, since that would mean no officer could ever retire, move to a place where he would not serve immediately, or leave the ministry.

 

[Scott Bushey]

"That it is for life"? The person called to this office is a 'deacon' for life?

Are not these people ordained under Gods call, i.e. God has shown us through prayer and fasting that you Scott, are called to be a Deacon?

 

[fredtgreco]

Yes. But ecclesiastically, the offices are inclusive, not exclusive. That is, the office of minister includes all that of ruling elder, plus the duties of preaching; the office of ruling elder includes all that of deacon (e.g. mercy ministry) plus that of rule.

And so on.

 

[gwine]

Whose office is perpetual.

Took me a minute to find the quote, but The Form of Presbyterial Church-Government with proof texts can be found at:

http://www.covenanter.org/Westminster/formofpresbygov.htm#[30]

I was curious to see how the proof texts (1 Time 3:8-15 and Acts 6:1-4) handled the 'perpetual' issue. I'll let you two carry on and enlighten me.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by fredtgreco
There is no such thing as a promotion from deacon to elder. Some churches do it as a matter of course; it is sickening.

However, it certainly is possible that a man who had gifts for the office of deacon, but who at that time did not happen to have gifts for elder (perhaps he was untried in teaching) could lay aside the office of deacon for the office of elder.

Sickening?!

I'm glad you added that last statement, because I can surely see the warrant of allowing a deacon to receive a calling from God to be a minister of the gospel, train him, and ordain him as an elder in the Church.

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia

Originally posted by fredtgreco
There is no such thing as a promotion from deacon to elder. Some churches do it as a matter of course; it is sickening.

However, it certainly is possible that a man who had gifts for the office of deacon, but who at that time did not happen to have gifts for elder (perhaps he was untried in teaching) could lay aside the office of deacon for the office of elder.

Sickening?!

I'm glad you added that last statement, because I can surely see the warrant of allowing a deacon to receive a calling from God to be a minister of the gospel, train him, and ordain him as an elder in the Church.

Yes, I should have been clearer. In some churches, deacon is viewed as a mere "stepping stone" to elder. It is not about qualifications, but more like advancement in a corporation.

But there certainly is warrant for training a man who is a deacon for the gospel ministry - or even seeing later in him gifts (that maybe were not there at the time of his ordination as a deacon) of eldership

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Don't forget about our biblical example of Phillip. He was initially called to be a deacon in the beginning of Acts with Stephen, but then later became an Evangelist in Ceasera.

 

[lwadkins]

What is even more sickening it the number of churches whose prime prerequesite for eldership or deconship is whether the canidate has the time to spend. Hey elect Joe there, he has time and isnt really doing anything else in the church.

 

[Me Died Blue]

Indeed - and other times it's mainly a social popularity contest.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Well, in SBC churches, the deacons more often than not rule the Church.

 

[govols]

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Well, in SBC churches, the deacons more often than not rule the Church.

Gabriel,

I am offended by your last statement!!!!

That just is not true !!!

If you ever bothered to go to Wednesday night service YOU would know that it is ruled by democracy not by deacons.

Do you think we ought to preach about SIN this Sunday. The NAYS have it by a landslide. Alrighty then, next topic, Pot luck lunches, ...



Gabriel, I say all that in jest. I grew up in the SBC.