Do You Ever Intentionally Sin?

[Ryan&Amber2013]

This question has been on my mind since I looked at a previous thread about total sanctification. I totally believe that the Christian will always struggle with certain sins, that can never be fully mastered in this life. And sadly those sins happen every day. But if one were to ask me if I intentionally and willfully sin, I would say no. There is never an instance in my day-to-day life as a Christian that I intentionally want to do wrong. Shouldn't that be the norm for Christianity? If not, why not? Thank you!

 

[Polanus1561]

You never get angry with your family? (Possible that you do not, if so, then good for you)

 

[Charles Johnson]

All sins are willful, insofar as they proceed from a corrupt will. There is no such thing as an accidental sin. Things that are 100% accidents, like you bumping your drink on accident and it spilling in your wife's lap (assuming you weren't drunk, reckless, etc), aren't sins.

 

[ZackF]

Yes. Too many times.

 

[Taylor]

It depends on what you mean by "intend." I assume you believe that all Christians sin. When I sin, I don't think my intention (i.e., my motive) is always to sin as an end in itself. Instead, my aim is to please the flesh, yet I commit that sin intentionally (i.e., I perform the act willfully and with knowledge). In other words, when I sin, most of the time, I'm not sitting there thinking, "I really would love to rebel against God right now." Instead, my desire is to gratify my sinful lusts.

In the end, whatever we do with the language, all sin is intentional.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

You never get angry with your family? (Possible that you do not, if so, then good for you)

That's the tricky thing. So many of life's situations are spontaneous, so there are times where I say things the wrong way, or act impatiently, or irritated. I think those are the sins that I was talking about that we will just never really overcome. But, do I ever think, someone just did something to irritate me, so now I have to get back at them? No. I never want to intentionally do anything to hurt another.

 

[Taylor]

That's the tricky thing. So many of life's situations are spontaneous, so there are times where I say things the wrong way, or act impatiently, or irritated. I think those are the sins that I was talking about that we will just never really overcome. But, do I ever think, someone just did something to irritate me, so now I have to get back at them? No. I never want to intentionally do anything to hurt another.

Spontaneity does not mean there is no intent. Even in moments of passion, we intend to get angry. It may not be an intent to harm, but the intent is still there. Something does not need to be premeditated to be intentional.

 

[Polanus1561]

That's the tricky thing. So many of life's situations are spontaneous, so there are times where I say things the wrong way, or act impatiently, or irritated. I think those are the sins that I was talking about that we will just never really overcome. But, do I ever think, someone just did something to irritate me, so now I have to get back at them? No. I never want to intentionally do anything to hurt another.

I get back at my loved one when I let anger seep in (flow from my heart). Anger filling me up makes me feel better. Thoughts that come when I get angry make me feel better. I self-justify myself by putting down my loved one in my mind. And that is wrong.

I don't mean to diagonose you from across the internet, but I do not think it is healthy to set aside:

times where I say things the wrong way, or act impatiently, or irritated.

to the 'sins we will never really overcome' pile. You can overcome, in degrees.
These things hinder us from the positive act of loving our neighbour. The absence of loving is sin.

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

Yes.

 

[alexanderjames]

The wicked - Psalm 36:4 - is contrasted with the righteous - Psalm 7:10 - in the regard of a devising habitually unto evil which they do not turn from. Tragically, as demonstrated also by the examples of the children of God in Scripture (2 Samuel 11:14-15) and personal experience, there may be an intentional choice to commit sin, whether it be seen as sin plainly or not, and this is to please the flesh, as has been already said. Now this may manifest itself in various ways, when temptation is succumbed to. Perhaps this question of how sin may manifest itself is what you are searching out to understand more precisely. But we do know that for the Christian it is a lapse into into sin which they cannot abide, for God’s seed remains in them (1 John 3:9) and the Lord their God disciplines them (Hebrews 12:6).

 

[ZackF]

Spontaneity does not mean there is no intent. Even in moments of passion, we intend to get angry. It may not be an intent to harm, but the intent is still there. Something does not need to be premeditated to be intentional.

Exactly. Hours of planning with a scowl and one’s finger tips together are not required for intent.

 

[beloved7]

All sins are willful, insofar as they proceed from a corrupt will. There is no such thing as an accidental sin. Things that are 100% accidents, like you bumping your drink on accident and it spilling in your wife's lap (assuming you weren't drunk, reckless, etc), aren't sins.

I think the OP is referring to sinning with a high hand, as in presuming upon His grace which is something Paul warns against.

 

[Charles Johnson]

I think the OP is referring to sinning with a high hand, as in presuming upon His grace which is something Paul warns against.

If we're talking about sinning with a high hand, i.e. with full, unreserved, unhesitating rebellion against God and rejection of his authority, no believer ever does that, because that would be full apostasy. As Polanus says in a section I read recently, even when Peter denied Christ with his lips, he confessed him in his heart. Believers sin out of weakness, not with full consent of the will.

 

[RamistThomist]

I do all the time.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Maybe I can be more clear.

Do you ever do things like:
Tell lies
Steal something that's not yours
Look at inappropriate things
Seek revenge

These are more of the things I'm talking about. Where there is malicious intent, where one can exercise self-control, but they choose not to. Rather than having the intention of loving but failing, their intention is to do the will of the devil.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

For those of you who are answering that your intention is to do wrong and sin at times, would people around you like your family and people driving on the road next to you consider you holy and different from those of the world? Would they recognize you as pure, fruitful people? If not, why not? I just ask out of sincerity, to try to better understand Christianity. I don't ask for the sake of judgment, but to learn.

For example, it is my deep desire for those closest in my family, that I live with everyday, to be able to say I am a holy man. If I am not living up to that, I need to do everything I can possibly do to correct that.

Thanks!

 

[beloved7]

If we're talking about sinning with a high hand, i.e. with full, unreserved, unhesitating rebellion against God and rejection of his authority, no believer ever does that, because that would be full apostasy. As Polanus says in a section I read recently, even when Peter denied Christ with his lips, he confessed him in his heart. Believers sin out of weakness, not with full consent of the will.

It’s certainly the first step on the road to apostasy, though whenever we go against our conscience we are sinning with a high hand as we are transgressing God’s law by acting not in faith. Who amongst us can say that we have never done that?

 

[JimmyH]

Although I've 'made a covenant with my eyes not to look upon a maid,' I sometimes find myself looking at a random woman with lust in my heart. I would not consummate the relationship given the opportunity, but the lust was there, so I've committed adultery in my heart already.

I've had thoughts, plenty of them of beating the tar, or worse, out of some people I interact with, and some I don't even know personally. So essentially I've committed murder by the standards of the Sermon on the Mount.

Stephen Charnock has a sermon, The Sinfulness and Cure of Thoughts, the only sermon of his published during his lifetime, that has made a difference in my understanding of sin, my thoughts, and what I can do to try and rein in the fiery darts of the wicked one.
Thank God for 1John 1:9

 

[John The Baptist]

I’ve often found myself (especially with the sin of lust) looking back after I have sinned and realizing I was not thinking at all. I just gratify the desire of my flesh without considering the danger. And I mourn. I feel so impulsive at times.

And on top of that, there are moments when I recognize the danger, and do it anyway. This makes me mourn more than anything else in this life, that I would sin against my Lord in such a way. How I need His grace.

Oh May God give me the strength to think about my actions before I do them. My weakness is great, especially in the aforementioned area.

 

[De Jager]

There are times I sin impulsively. There are also times when I resist a sin for a period of time, and eventually give in to the temptation, which is 100% a willful decision. It is when my desire to gratify the flesh exceeds my desire to please God. Sometimes, sadly, I even realize that I am going to sin before I even do it, and still do it. That's not the pattern of my life, but it happens.

 

[Polanus1561]

There is also the element of how much one surrounds himself with 'enemies'. Conceivably there are days where I am all day at home and do not have that temptation to hate my enemy as much as others in their situations.

 

[De Jager]

What I struggle with is that I face temptations and there is something in me that really wants those things. Things like revenge, lust, covetousness, etc. There is something in me that really wants them, that yearns for those things in such a strong way that I can sometimes physically feel it. There is also something in me that says "no, you ought not do that. Stay away". I struggle with wondering if that is the Spirit or if it's just my own evil pragmatic self.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Thanks guys for opening up and being honest. I really appreciate being better informed.

 

[Ed Walsh]

I'm not sure that the question shouldn't be -- When have you ever sined that it wasn't intentional?

 

[davejonescue]

This question has been on my mind since I looked at a previous thread about total sanctification. I totally believe that the Christian will always struggle with certain sins, that can never be fully mastered in this life. And sadly those sins happen every day. But if one were to ask me if I intentionally and willfully sin, I would say no. There is never an instance in my day-to-day life as a Christian that I intentionally want to do wrong. Shouldn't that be the norm for Christianity? If not, why not? Thank you!

I think there is a dual work at play why perfection is impossible on earth, and, why we will always sin in some way. Our depravity is so deep, yet Gods yoke so easy, that in his grace, he only reveals a certain amount of sin in our lives at once. Yet, we are so depraved, that we could have 100 lifetimes and still not purge the wickedness infesting our nature. Would we be more sanctified? Yes. But if spiritual perfection were possible, there would be little need for glorification; because one of the major attributes of glorification is being completely conformed into the image of Jesus, i.e. sinless perfection. We will not only not sin, but we will share the same attribute of God in not being able to sin. The Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of completely sanctifying us now, since all our moral progress stems from the same Spirit that brought the dead to life. Yet, part of garnishing the expectation of the glory of our consummation, is yearning for it as our present condition is progressively revealed. In other words, God allowing us to strive for perfection, knowing we will fail because of our imperfection, keeps us aliens longing for a homeland. This is why I think it is explained that the servants of God have ceased from their moral obligatory labors through Christ. Because a person who is truly elect doesnt try at all times to follow the 600+ OT laws and the 1,000+ New Testament commands as if they were auditioning for a role in a play, or trying out for a position on a team. But they have been made righteous; the very righteousness of Christ, and the Sprit progressively leads them into acting accordingly, until the time in which we will be able to act no other way.

Also, struggle builds relationship. What led God to calling David a man after his own heart? His faith, sure. But also his repentant spirit. How many of us wet our pillows daily as we think how we offend God? How many of us are heartbroken over our offenses, then elated at his grace and mercy? One of the chief evidences of genuine conversion is being helpless in our sin, and crying out to God, and seeing God do in our lives only what God could do, and we never can. By this, he glorifies himself in us, and he glorifies himself in the world by us, and through us, by the work he has wrought in our hearts.

There never was a plan B. Creation, from the fall to his return is his symphony and witness in the cosmos. All things work to your good, even the sin God allows you to fall to; because remember, the Spirit in you is more powerful than your flesh, and, if God were to remove his Spirit from you, you would proclaim he doesnt exist the same day. By saying this, God is in control of what you go through; he is completely sovereign. He doesnt instigate your faults; but he does have the power to stop them and doesnt, in the wisdom of his counsel. This is why (though I struggle with this) the most sanctified people are people of petition. People who are always in Gods ear, begging that they would be more like Jesus, begging to just touch the hem of his garment. People who praise God for the gift of conviction, respond with a plea for progression, and are grateful for the mercy of a granted victory. But, are we also continually thankful that God keeps us from returning to our vomit? Being happy to advance, is not synonymous with being grateful we haven't regressed. And I think both are needed (or deserved) to keep the heart tender, the ear attentive, and the frame humbled.

He will also let us strive for perfection apart from him; but for many of us we seek to win the war by our strength and will., when the first principle of our warfare is that it is not carnal. God promised to give the Israelites the entire promised land, if only they would possess it. In none of the instances were any of their victories because they were better warriors, or more brave, or stronger, or more righteous, or more witty than their opponents. But because God loves his people; and there is no good thing he will withhold from us if we ask, and that is apart from the good he gives us that we would never think to request before we ask it. He has prepared a promised land for his elect if we would but possess it. But how our sin sometimes can be the giants that make us no more than grasshoppers compared to it. And rightfully so. Because God never intended for us to lean on our own strength to fight battles, but to trust in him to secure the victory on our behalf. Prayer is powerful. Sometimes it is with a single request; sometimes it is years of continual petition; and if we do not get what we request immediately; whether that is victory over sin, or some other desire, it is because our request or intent is evil, or it is a greater good to withhold it (forever, or for the time being.) But, he is the one who sets the stage for battle; and he is the one who wins all the battles of his saints.

I say all this to say, ask God to illuminate your shortcomings, and sure as the sun will rise he will give you something to work out. It will be that way until we get home; even if that thing we are working out, is thinking we are sinless. Sorry for so many "I think" statements, I am not a theologian; I am in the same boat as you working all this out.

 

[Ed Walsh]

I totally believe that the Christian will always struggle with certain sins, that can never be fully mastered in this life.

Certain sins? Mastered? These concepts are no longer in my vocabulary.

Are you, or anyone else who may read, actually think that your nature changes when you are born again?

Before you jump down my throat, let me quickly add that I think the greatest change that will ever happen to you has already happened. God has transformed the very center of your being to desire never to sin and always to do what is right. This "seed," as John calls it, remains in you, so in this respect, "you cannot sin." To fully understand what John is saying here, you need Paul's detailed description in Romans chapter 7.

As per Paul:
On the one hand, it is no longer I that sin. Here Paul is talking about his inner man, the new man, the true self that John calls God's "seed."
On the other hand, Paul again speaks of himself as "I" and says, I continually sin; I cannot help but sin.
Of course, Paul speaks of his inner man, the seed of God, or Christ dwelling in him.
While his human nature, which Paul calls the flesh, constantly opposes his new "inner man."

My point is that our fallen human nature has a new boss like Paul's new man, but the human nature itself remains quite unchanged. Subdued, yes, but changed? No!

1 John 3:9 KJV​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:​

and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

You will look in vain in your modern translation to say anything remotely like this.
I consider this verse by John as a verse that is more difficult to understand than other places that are more clear.

Westminster Confession of Faith; Chapter I. Of the Holy Scripture, Section IX.​

IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of scripture is the scripture itself; and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any scripture, (which is not manifold, but one,) it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.​

 

[Ed Walsh]

Because a person who is truly elect doesnt try at all times to follow the 600+ OT laws and the 1,000+ New Testament commands as if they were auditioning for a role in a play, or trying out for a position on a team. But they have been made righteous; the very righteousness of Christ, and the Sprit progressively leads them into acting accordingly, until the time in which we will be able to act no other way.

Well said. And by quoting what I did, I am not at all implying that it is the only "well-said" statement you made.

 

[davejonescue]

Certain sins? Mastered? These concepts are no longer in my vocabulary.

Are you, or anyone else who may read, actually think that your nature changes when you are born again?

Before you jump down my throat, let me quickly add that I think the greatest change that will ever happen to you has already happened. God has transformed the very center of your being to desire never to sin and always to do what is right. This "seed," as John calls it, remains in you, so in this respect, "you cannot sin." To fully understand what John is saying here, you need Paul's detailed description in Romans chapter 7.

As per Paul:
On the one hand, it is no longer I that sin. Here Paul is talking about his inner man, the new man, the true self that John calls God's "seed."
On the other hand, Paul again speaks of himself as "I" and says, I continually sin; I cannot help but sin.
Of course, Paul speaks of his inner man, the seed of God, or Christ dwelling in him.
While his human nature, which Paul calls the flesh, constantly opposes his new "inner man."

My point is that our fallen human nature has a new boss as Paul's new man, but the human nature itself remains quite unchanged. Subdued, yes, but changed? No!

1 John 3:9 KJV​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:​

and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

You will look in vain in your modern translation to say anything remotely like this.
I consider this verse by John as a verse that is more difficult to understand than other places that are more clear.


qqq

How do you correlate "The Spirit" being in you, with a seed of righteousness being implanted in you? Wouldnt this be God, and not just a seed. And as God, wouldnt his power in the individual be omnipotent (at the Spirits discretion?) Now I'm confused....Not trying to argue, at all, just want to clarify this possible error in the way I see the limitation of the Spirit within the elect. Currently, I view the Spirit as God, in man, and as God, without unwilling restraint. Is this wrong?

 

[JimmyH]

In addition to my M'Cheyne 1 year reading plan I've returned to John MacArthur's method of reading one book of the Bible daily for a month. This month it is the General Epistle of James.

I've always been fascinated by his example of juxtaposing adultery against murder as illustrating one sin, whichever it is, equates to breaking the whole law.

Had he said adultery versus covetousness, or lying, I wouldn't feel such bewilderment in the comparison. On the other hand, perhaps those two 'cardinal' sins being his examples demonstrates that sin is sin no matter the degree we might place upon the thought or deed.

When I first read Jeremiah, 'The heart is desperately wicked, and deceitful above all things, who can know it?' I had no qualms about recognizing that in myself, nor in Genesis 6:5 'And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.'

If I were to say that I don't sin .... that would be sin. 1John 1:8 'If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.'

 

[Polanus1561]

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: - Psalm 139

does anyone here pray this?