Female Pastors-right or wrong?

[SolaScriptura]

Well, don't get me wrong, "egalitarian" is not a dirty word. To be egalitarian simply means to treat equally. But as it is used in the context of the debate between egalitarians/complementarians and the roles of men and women in the home and church, "egalitarianism" refers to the view that insists on not only ontological equality between the genders, but functional equality as well. Complentarians say that there is ontological equality, but functionally the two sexes complement each other rather than mirror or compete with each other.
Does that make sense? Perhaps someone here can provide a more text book definition, but mine captures the gist of it.

 

[MMasztal]

Sola:

Good explanation. I'd also like to add that egalitarianism, as one of the consequences of post-modern thought, has permeated all aspects of society and the sadly, the church.

Probably the most significant outcropping of egalitarianism is the world's [and the liberal church's] new religion, i.e., TOLERANCE.

Since the egalitarian mindset ascribes equal legitimacy to all aspects of thought, lifestyle choices, etc., there can be no right or wrong. It is essentially cultural relativism gone amuck.

Pastorway's earlier post about the PCUSA's view on abortion and homosexuality are perfect examples. To the egalitarian, since both pro-abortion and anti-abortion views are equally valid, they are unable to say either one is absolutely right or wrong. Hence, in milquetoast fashion, they proclaim further discourse is in order.

Almost makes me barf!

I am fully convinced that outside a Christian worldview, nothing, and I mean NOTHING makes sense.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Someone made this argument with me:

[quote:447df103d9]Heres a simple question Houseparent

Please show me in the word where it says a woman can't be a pastor

The meaning of the word pastor from Greek is poimen {poy-mane'} which means;a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

It is quite well known in history that there were many women that were shepherds of flocks and that these were the duties of shepards

The tasks of a shepherd were:
- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

Do you see any thing here that disquailfies a woman from being a sheperd

Please do show me the scripture that says specifically forbids women from being shepards[/quote:447df103d9]

Thoughts?

 

[FrozenChosen]

[quote:edb518e038][i:edb518e038]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:edb518e038]
Someone made this argument with me:

[quote:edb518e038]Heres a simple question Houseparent

Please show me in the word where it says a woman can't be a pastor

The meaning of the word pastor from Greek is poimen {poy-mane'} which means;a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

It is quite well known in history that there were many women that were shepherds of flocks and that these were the duties of shepards

The tasks of a shepherd were:
- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

Do you see any thing here that disquailfies a woman from being a sheperd

Please do show me the scripture that says specifically forbids women from being shepards[/quote:edb518e038]

Thoughts? [/quote:edb518e038]

Adam, he's taking the analogy too far. He's trying to turn a principle into specifics, and this is where legalism or antinomianism love to creep in. By his use of the analogy it certainly wouldn't be reasonable, but it would be defensible, for us to demand that pastors kill the "wolves" in the congregation. Or perhaps that he tries shepherding to understand his position better.

For how to deal with it, there are some pretty good verses and links on this topic for you to run through, I don't think I could add anything to it.

 

[ServantoftheLamb]

Sola scriptura or the traditions of men?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:2e674b4162][i:2e674b4162]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:2e674b4162]
Someone made this argument with me:

[quote:2e674b4162]Heres a simple question Houseparent

Please show me in the word where it says a woman can't be a pastor

The meaning of the word pastor from Greek is poimen {poy-mane'} which means;a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

It is quite well known in history that there were many women that were shepherds of flocks and that these were the duties of shepards

The tasks of a shepherd were:
- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

Do you see any thing here that disquailfies a woman from being a sheperd

Please do show me the scripture that says specifically forbids women from being shepards[/quote:2e674b4162]

Thoughts? [/quote:2e674b4162]
I agree, the analogy is taken too far. Analogies never prove anything true anyway. They can only illustrate it. She must first prove her argument before trying to provide an illustration of it. At best she has shown that a woman can herd sheep.
You must bring her back to Scripture. Can a woman be the "husband of one wife?" Where is it commanded for a man to "keep silent in the church?" Where is it commanded that a man "not have authority over men?" If there were equality, then statements like these, excluding women from the leadership, would not be present in Scripture. You really can't avoid these things. It's not about a woman's ability. It's about the commandments of God. God forbids them to teach or have authority over men. We must obey.

 

[A_Wild_Boar]

edit, nevermind

[Edited on 6-18-2004 by A_Wild_Boar]

 

[BrianLanier]

ServantoftheLamb...

Like the last name!

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:4b5d3a2835][i:4b5d3a2835]Originally posted by BrianLanier[/i:4b5d3a2835]
ServantoftheLamb...

Like the last name! [/quote:4b5d3a2835]
I was wondering if you two were related. uzzled:

 

[fredtgreco]

[quote:67f6d2e991][i:67f6d2e991]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:67f6d2e991]
Someone made this argument with me:

[quote:67f6d2e991]Heres a simple question Houseparent

Please show me in the word where it says a woman can't be a pastor

The meaning of the word pastor from Greek is poimen {poy-mane'} which means;a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

It is quite well known in history that there were many women that were shepherds of flocks and that these were the duties of shepards

The tasks of a shepherd were:
- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

Do you see any thing here that disquailfies a woman from being a sheperd

Please do show me the scripture that says specifically forbids women from being shepards[/quote:67f6d2e991]

Thoughts? [/quote:67f6d2e991]

1 Timothy 2; 1 Timothy 3; Titus 1

 

[calgal]

Why do Arminians get so very very bent out of shape when they are confronted with Timothy? uzzled: I was told I was "contentious" for simply stating that I do not think women are supposed to preach (backed up with Scripture) And to make matters worse, the simple act of repeating the question "What scriptural basis is there for women preaching and teaching men?" is somehow regarded as sarcasm? :flaming: I am beginning to think some of these folks shut their brain off when reading 1 Timothy. She responded by asking if I cover my head! In any case, I am so glad God led me to a Reformed church!

 

[cupotea]

Disregard

[Edited on 6-19-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]

 

[ReformedWretch]

The Shepard stuff continues;

In the scriptures that you list here there is not the mention of a pastor only the mention of bishop and elder. Each of these terms are from different words and with different meanings.

Pastor--poimen {poy-mane'}--- a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
Bishop-- episkope {ep-is-kop-ay'}---overseership, office, charge, the office of an elder, the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church
Elder presbuteros {pres-boo'-ter-os}---among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably

As to your statement that pastors are the head of the body is not totally true because as it says here in Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Jesus is the head of the body and all that are in the body are to submit to Him.

I have shown you before and it didn't register then and I believe that it won't make a difference now but I will share this once again.

As long as woman is not teaching in a manner that would usurp (exercise dominion over) a mans authority is the problem not the fact that a woman is not supposed to teach. That the woman is not to teach in a manner that takes dominion over a man. It doesn't mean a woman can't teach it means a woman can't teach in a manner that demands that her teaching is more inspired and true than a mans teaching.

Still you have not presented scriptures that say explicitly that a woman can not pastor because the scripture you presented did not mention the pastor at all.

It is quite well known in history that there were many women that were shepherds of flocks and that these were the duties of shepards

The tasks of a shepherd were:
- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

Do you see any thing here that disquailfies a woman from being a sheperd

Please do show me the scripture that says specifically forbids women from being shepards

 

[pastorway]

Women cannot be pastors. Period. The texts given in 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians 14 are sufficient to make that claim. A woman cannot have authority over a man in the church. That means she cannot be an elder/pastor or teach a man. It is really that simple.

Pastors are to be men only, and for a woman to teach a man [i:bdd9f8003e]in the church[/i:bdd9f8003e] is an act of rebellion against the Word of God.

Now then, women are able to teach men privately (Acts 18:26). They may also sing and pray in the church. But they cannot hold a position of authority or teach/preach to men in a worship service of the church.

If there are more questions please do a search on the forum as we have given more than ample proof from the Scirpture of this fact.

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1239

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=3886

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=3669


Phillip