Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by Romans922, Oct 9, 2009.

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  1. historyb

    historyb Puritan Board Junior

    I find that Christians always beat up their own because of some ill perceived notion. Sadly even I have done that a time or two
  2. he beholds

    he beholds Puritan Board Doctor

    Oh me too, me too : (
  3. Augusta

    Augusta Puritan Board Doctor

    I think it's because we are all being sanctified and we all want to honor God and have differing notions of how to do that. Differing notions on how to keep God's laws, or whether we even still have to keep God's laws.

    I'm not saying it is never done sinfully. We are all, in fact, sinners so that wouldn't be surprising. :think:
  4. JennyG

    JennyG Puritan Board Graduate

    nobody else has any reason to!:)
  5. he beholds

    he beholds Puritan Board Doctor

    Well then what is the "witness" worry about regarding halloween?
  6. JennyG

    JennyG Puritan Board Graduate

    only that we need to show clearly, by our behaviour and attitude to it, what is unbiblical.
    If Christians depart from Biblical standards in any area, the world may chalk it up as hypocrisy but will probably be on the whole pleased rather than not. It will hardly be judgmental of those who after all are conforming to its own mores. Real pagans or satanists will probably be delighted to see Christians joining in at halloween!
    That doesn't make it a good witness.
  7. Romans 8 Verse 28

    Romans 8 Verse 28 Puritan Board Freshman

  8. Dao

    Dao Puritan Board Freshman

    Oh! I also broke the Ten commandments. Maybe I'm not saved. It's up to God what he wants to do with me. I don't have a choice on that matter. I don't care for halloween but those kids are too cute and ~expect~ candy. I like to know who my neighbors are. It beats me why I'm still involve with treating. It cost me $4 for a bag of candy.

    -----Added 10/16/2009 at 07:12:43 EST-----

    Being a descendant of Pocahontas, I must have fallen asleep during history class. Thanks for correcting me. Better to learn now than never.
  9. apaleífo̱

    apaleífo̱ Puritan Board Freshman

    Good for you! That post just made my day. ;)
  10. he beholds

    he beholds Puritan Board Doctor

    I agree with you that it is a bad witness to depart from biblical standards. I just don't see how trick-or-treating is departing from biblical standards. If someone showed that, then the discussion about it being a bad witness wouldn't even matter, because just the fact that it is wrong would be enough of an argument to not do it. I guess I am speaking to the people who say it may not be pagan anymore, but it is still a bad witness. My argument against that is only Christians who are afraid of the activities judge, and not the people who do so with no thought of Paganism.

    I'm sorry, I still don't understand what is going on??
    Can you explain what you are saying?
    I think you lost me here:
    Maybe I don't get what you are saying. Are you saying it is a sin to give candy or not? I don't know what I said that offended you. I never said that you weren't saved or anything like it.
  11. dudley

    dudley Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    those responsible for the early rituals of holloween

    Actually roman catholicism and pagan rituals are closly associated and the rcc worship of saints and false teaching on purgatory were responsible for the early rituals of holloween. November 1st is all saints day in the rcc and Nov 2nd is all souls day, for the poor souls in purgatory who need to be made ready by waiting to enter heaven by the sale of rc masses to reprive their souls into heaven by the saying of the rc mass ritual.

    Holoween, October 31st is the eve, all hollows eve, of these roman catholic rituals which inspire these satanic superstitions as does so much of roman catholicism. It is important to emphasize to Protestant youth on Reformation Sunday October 25th the importance of the Protestant Reformation in renouncing the satanic inspired superstitions of roman catholicism.

    IN faith,
  12. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    OK, so taking part in Halloween is not wrong because we are not really taking part in a Satanic ritual, correct? What if I dressed as Anton Lavey for Halloween? An upside-down cross on my tunic and shaved bald head w/obligatory goatee to complete the look. I am not actually him, nor am I sacrificing a chicken to Satan, I am just dressing like him. No one else can really see that I am dressing up as the High Priest of the Church of Satan, and I'm just doing it for fun. And candy.

    Afraid of? Or simply that they see no value in Christian participation therein? (And worse). I'm certainly not afraid of the activities, but why does a Christian take part in activities glorifying gore, ghouls, terror, etc. Where is the good in that? Why insist on conforming ones-self to the world? Because "I enjoy it". Who enjoys it? A new creation in Christ or a Natural man? Where is the enjoyment for the Christian in these activities? Can someone explain that to me? I am not talking about a Christian at a basketball game where there is no sermon at half-time. I am talking about participating in the glorification of witchery and the like.

    We talk so quickly about the fact that standing by while someone is killed is a violation of the sixth commandment. That saying nothing while people take the Lord's name in vain is a shameful thing. What about standing by while these activities go on? Is there no inherent responsibility for the Christian to speak out in this? Honestly?
  13. he beholds

    he beholds Puritan Board Doctor

    First, my conscience would not allow me to dress up like a devil worshiper on any day of the year. If "No one else can really see that I am dressing up as the High Priest of the Church of Satan, and I'm just doing it for fun. And candy," then I would think you have even more problems, since only you know that you are pretending to be Satanic, and I would consider that taking part in Satanic rituals. Now, my son dressing up like an elephant or my daughter dressing up as a bear does not glorify Satan.

    And we also do nothing to glorify gore, ghouls, and terror. Maybe you are imagining the typical Christian family trick-or-treating in a Haunted House, but not this one.

    The enjoyment for the Christian is 1)wearing costumes 2)going to a big neighborhood block party of sorts. And I'm sure the candy is probably a draw for some.

    If we did this on Jan. 3, would you still think it Satanic and an enjoyment of only the natural man?
  14. Dao

    Dao Puritan Board Freshman

    It's my fault for the confusion. I was responding to some messages with a historical background. Some knew what I was saying cause they too know the history of halloween. The below quote was posted here twice. Some would probably skip over it and not read any history about halloween. Here is the quote below:
    If you chose to read this, you may connect to what some are saying here. If you don't choose to read it, we'll all try to tell you a little about why halloween is the wickedest abominable blasphemous holiday of the entire year.
    Lets assume you read that article posted in the quote above and at the same time you ask why is it dangerous, some, here, may wonder if you really get halloween.
    Halloween is a tradition and very extremely dangerous similar to what Martin Luther were pointing to the Catholics. Luther showed the Catholics how their traditions had driven them away from the Bible into the doctrines of men. Traditions invented by popes are considered traditions given by God. Did you know that the pope ~is~ God as claimed by the highest level of Catholicism? They won't tell the public that, outloud. Anyway, halloween is a tradition and will always get us, Reformed Christians, in really big trouble. He_beholds, please take the time to read the enclosed article and tell us what you think. We would love to hear ideas about new ways to stop this evil tradition, not make it better in the same way the Catholics did to their traditions. The Catholics worship Mary through their added tradition and the reformers don't want to worship Satan through the added halloween tradition. I would rather see halloween end once and for all and I would like to see you boycott this abdominal holiday. Happy halloween? Whats ~happy~ about halloween? What are you celebrating, he_beholds? Yes! I am guilty of giving out candy as much as Luther was guilty for observing the traditions of Catholicism. I will still turn my head and point to the direction of Heaven as Martin did at the diet of Worms: [video=youtube;r5P7QkHCfaI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5P7QkHCfaI[/video]
  15. Megan Mozart

    Megan Mozart Puritan Board Junior


    I think Jessi (he_beholds) is aware of the history of Halloween. I think most Christians who participate in it are aware of the history. They've thought this through and figured out that their conscience is clear. Jessi and others have said over and over and over that Halloween is something different than it was hundreds of years ago. Today, Halloween to them is simply dressing up (for most, in non-spooky costumes) and getting candy.

    You can disagree if you want. You can discuss it too. But dear brother, I am sorry if I am wrong but it sounds like you are being condescending, and it's breaking my heart. It sounds like others are offering valid points but you aren't dealing with them. It seems like you are just feeling angry about it and repeating yourself again and in such a way to make it sound like you think those who practice Halloween are stupid because they haven't seen that is so obviously worshipping Satan. Dear brother I am not angry, just trying to point out somethings out.

    Continue to disagree and discuss it but remember please that this may be one of those issues of conscience. :)


    This is just my little blip and I'm not going to join the debate just so you know.
  16. Dao

    Dao Puritan Board Freshman

    Thank you for your reply.

    -----Added 10/17/2009 at 10:45:28 EST-----

    Can anyone here post some Bible quotes why Christians shouldn't participate in the halloween celebration? Lets let God speak for Himself regarding this.
  17. Dao

    Dao Puritan Board Freshman

    Oh! Sorry. Forgive me. I had to re-evaluate myself here. I thought I was doing a good thing. Here's another opinion of my ~own~ about holidays. I'll try not to sound so angry here.
    As a former advertising specialist of the largest retail store in the nation and possibly the world, it used to be my job to advertise to as many people into buying more through the use of magazine ads, broadcast, Internet and other media. Through the media, we can create a world. People want to have the same thing on the TV ads and media. People say, "I want that and I want to buy it". Early, every summer, we work on an advertising campaign to make the most profits during the Christmas rush. We want to make more money than the competitors. Yes! that's called greed but to some, it's called business. My job was to try to make others feel that you love another person by buying gifts for that person during a certain time frame to copy what the 3 wise kings did for Jesus. It gives a meaning. Folks challenge each other and buy a better gifts than others. Everybody did this for many years since Saint Nicholas. If you don't buy a gift, there a chance you don't love that person according to the headlines and sub headlines of the popular medias and in exchange, they won't feel you love them. Now, Wall Street got more greedy and loaned more money to buy more toys to give folks a big feeling of expressing their love to another through the use of gifts or food. What happened?

    We C R A S H E D !

    People stop expressing themselves and stopped shopping. We're living in it! It's getting worst , some say.
    It's the same thing with halloween. Formally, I -used-to try to create a new feeling of what halloween is today. My job was to add fun, f u n , FUN to the game and make more money for the companies. It's like the old creepy Halloween movie where they made millions of pumpkin masks for every kid to control their thoughts on halloween day. We use candy and costumes and other great fun stuff to have a fun day and show people how they should think. My ~former~ job was to create a feeling of fun and make the most money. My budget was 30 million dollars and we spent them well and made LOTS more off trick or treaters in recent years. Its another form of greed that makes our economy worst (or temporarily better) when wall street crashes. I think its wrong to make others feel that it's ok to spend half of our paychecks for useless presents just to make others feel loved or to have fun. In my world through the marketing department and reports, I see how much money spent on unhealthy goodies and bad environments using spooky toys. I think the Bible is right. Money can be use wrongly and should be used for better useful things. Halloween is an example of useless things. Fun but for one day on halloween? Why that one day created by the Satanist? I'm not angry. Am I? I see the history of Halloween and I see the warnings the bible teaches us. I'm simply observing the situation and expressing it here in this topic of the forum. Personally, I think I'm helping the situation, not making it worst.
    Yes! I did spend $4 for a bag of candy. Why? Cause some here think I should. why do you think I should?

    Easter bunnies and Easter candy? That's another story.
  18. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    Why do we get bent out of shape about the celebration of other pagan holidays on this board (let's take Christmas for an instance), a holiday that, as incorrect as it may be, is meant to glorify the birth of our Lord and Saviour, but take a holiday that is meant to celebrate the underworld, whose most joyful celebrants are Druids, Witches and Satanists, and there is great self-justification.

    Is no-one else left speechless by the absurdity in the juxtaposition of these two examples?

    If Dawkins started an annual celebration of the death of God at his own hands, in which people went around bringing gifts to each other to celebrate the destruction of a myth of Biblical proportions, would we as Christians EVER say, "well, I don't care for its origins, we just bring presents to our friends because that's the thing to do on this day"?

    God forbid.
  19. apaleífo̱

    apaleífo̱ Puritan Board Freshman

    That example is just as absurd as using the example of Christmas to justify Halloween.
  20. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    Basta, basta.
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