How are you gonna use your tax refund?

[Mushroom]

No. I consider it the prerogative of the Civil Magistrate to take taxes (as I recall, Washington is still on the $1 bill). I may not agree with his use of the money, but then again, I would have disagreed with the use of public funds to pay to string up Christians as human torches in the first century as well. And yet I do recall a verse telling the Christians to honour the emperor. Whether or not we agree with policies, we are to honor and pray for those in authority as ministers of God.

So you are asserting that Nero was acting as the minister of God when he torched Christians? I think perhaps that is a misconstruction of the verse in reference.

 

[Jesus is my friend]

As part of the government engineered "working poor" we use it to survive the upcoming year and pray not to have to charge our groceries.

 

[Apologist4Him]

Oh, I almost forgot, to answer the OP, half of our refund went towards paying one bill, the other half, divided in half went towards another bill (one is probably high interest) and with what little was left, went towards filling the gas tank, a month's supply of supporting my wife and I's expensive and unhealthy habit of smoking, and paying a co-payment for a medical bill, and hopefully we'll have enough for me to add a few resources to my Logos library (probably won't have enough for both James Orr and D.A. Carson), need to pay for a book though from IVP book club, late on paying for one. If I ever get the point of being able to save some money, the bank interest won't compare to tax percentages, and the stock market is like gambling. Rough times.

 

[Philip]

So you are asserting that Nero was acting as the minister of God when he torched Christians?

No. He was a minister of God even though he torched the Christians and was to be honoured as such. Even in opposition to an ungodly magistrate one must honour the office and its function---and its agents are to be treated with similar respect.

The Scripture says in 1 Samuel that 10% is an oppressive tax. Samuel warns Israel that their king will oppress them -- he will tax 10%. So given that our federal government taxes up into the thirties, haven't we crossed the line?

Given the expanded services that government currently provides, no. Current tax rates are certainly imprudent (as are many of the services that they, in theory, are funding) but I don't find them oppressive. Further, where does Samuel here say that the king is not within his rights in demanding such a tax?

Is there a percentage at which taxation becomes theft?

Certainly---when the poor are starved while state officials live in luxury. If you want to see real examples of theft, look at North Korea, pre-revolutionary France, Ireland during the potato famine. To these people, just like to many of the Israelites, 10% was often the difference between life and death.

 

[Mushroom]

Oh, I almost forgot, to answer the OP, half of our refund went towards paying one bill, the other half, divided in half went towards another bill (one is probably high interest) and with what little was left, went towards filling the gas tank, a month's supply of supporting my wife and I's expensive and unhealthy habit of smoking, and paying a co-payment for a medical bill, and hopefully we'll have enough for me to add a few resources to my Logos library (probably won't have enough for both James Orr and D.A. Carson), need to pay for a book though from IVP book club, late on paying for one. If I ever get the point of being able to save some money, the bank interest won't compare to tax percentages, and the stock market is like gambling. Rough times.

If you're interested, I have found that e-cigs serve as an adequate replacement for smoking, with a plethora of flavor options, and a tiny fraction of the cost. I have gone through the trial and error part, and can direct you where to save a lot of money. Mindy and I both use e-cigs to great enjoyment and relatively small expense. PM if you want my take on it.

 

[Mushroom]

No. He was a minister of God even though he torched the Christians and was to be honoured as such. Even in opposition to an ungodly magistrate one must honour the office and its function---and its agents are to be treated with similar respect.

Over-the-edge statist interpretation of scripture. The bloody enemy of Christ and His people is transformed into the 'minister of Christ' by this errant view. That is just perverse. Your argument must center on the propriety of resistance to an unjust magistrate for a Christian. Even if you regard resistance improper, it is a jaded wickedness to declare him the 'minister of God' while he is burning your brethren as long as your behind isn't in flames.

Certainly---when the poor are starved while state officials live in luxury. If you want to see real examples of theft, look at North Korea, pre-revolutionary France, Ireland during the potato famine. To these people, just like to many of the Israelites, 10% was often the difference between life and death.

Then, my friend, you have that criteria well established in this country. The gap between government pay and productive class pay and benefits is wide and widening.

 

[tabrooks]

Payment directly towards principal of mortgage.

 

[au5t1n]

Certainly---when the poor are starved while state officials live in luxury. If you want to see real examples of theft, look at North Korea, pre-revolutionary France, Ireland during the potato famine. To these people, just like to many of the Israelites, 10% was often the difference between life and death.

The only reason we're not there is because we're propping ourselves up as a nation on pseudo-money and borrowing, borrowing, borrowing. Give it some time and we'll be there. I realize you did acknowledge the imprudence of current spending and taxing policy, but given that acknowledgment, I don't see that we really disagree except perhaps on the direness of the situation.

 

[au5t1n]

To answer the question: tithe, savings, loan debt.

 

[Mushroom]

Given the expanded services that government currently provides, no. Current tax rates are certainly imprudent (as are many of the services that they, in theory, are funding) but I don't find them oppressive. Further, where does Samuel here say that the king is not within his rights in demanding such a tax?

Apparently you find yourself in the enviable position of determining what constitutes oppressive taxation, based on your valuation of the services government provides. Sweet! Maybe from now on we can just ask your views on all things and consider them settled, since evidently your personal subjective experience is monolithic and authoritive.

 

[newcreature]

I used mine to float my living expenses for 2 months. I haven't worked since Thanksgiving and money has been tight. I was surprised at how large my federal refund was, though. But alas, it is gone now.

 

[Philip]

Over-the-edge statist interpretation of scripture. The bloody enemy of Christ and His people is transformed into the 'minister of Christ' by this errant view.

So why did Peter tell his readers to "honour the emperor"? Why did Paul call the civil authority "God's minister"? The office is a divine one no matter how it is abused and you have no right to disrespect it even as you speak truth to it---even in resistance to it.

Your argument must center on the propriety of resistance to an unjust magistrate for a Christian. Even if you regard resistance improper, it is a jaded wickedness to declare him the 'minister of God' while he is burning your brethren as long as your behind isn't in flames.

A just resistance would come from a lesser magistrate. As for that last part---I don't care if it is my behind burning in flames. I will speak truth and then be killed. The office must be respected even if held by a despot. The crown is higher than the one who wears it, and if there is to be resistance to the wearer it must be in the name of the crown and by legitimate authority under it.

Then, my friend, you have that criteria well established in this country. The gap between government pay and productive class pay and benefits is wide and widening.

But the productive class (whatever is meant by that) is hardly starving. The peasants of France and Ireland were and those of Korea are today.

At any rate, this discussion has gotten off the topic at hand.

 

[au5t1n]

I'll wrap up my part by noting that Daniel and John called ungodly rulers "beasts". The minister of God in Romans 13 upholds good and restrains evil. Nevertheless, I agree that lesser magistrates ought to lead the way in opposing tyrannical rule and that in the meantime Christian citizens should pay taxes and not resist the power by lawless violence.

 

[irresistible_grace]

If you ... wanted to put it towards college for your kids, where would you stash it? Gold? land? IRA? Etc? What is wisest in this economy?

If you really wanted to put it toward college for your children then you might want to look into a Section 529 college savings plan because it has tax benefits and you could get even more money back next year (if you qualified for a return this year).

EDIT:
http://www.savingforcollege.com/articles/2012-plan-performance-rankings-q4

 

[irresistible_grace]

When we get out of debt, if we still qualify for a return, we will put it into a "Spousal ROTH-IRA" (right now the limit is $5,500 per year which BTW we have NEVER remotely received as a tax return). The benefit to a ROTH-IRA is that since you are adding "already taxed" money you only pay capital gains tax on the money you have "gained" in addition to what you have contributed when you withdraw after you are 59 1/2 years of age. An added bonus is that you can withdraw "what you have contributed" ANYTIME without penalty if you should ever need to. So, it is like a savings account on steroids!

 

[Unoriginalname]

I bought a laptop.

 

[SRoper]

We owed money for the first time this year. I think it was a combination of no longer having state income tax to pay (and losing that deduction) and investments doing better this year, so I guess I can't complain.

 

[jwithnell]

Keg party -- our house Friday!

Ours is keeping our heads above water. Generally, I've put 50 percent of windfalls and raises (remember them?) into savings, a recommendation my Dad made many years ago.

 

[Mushroom]

A just resistance would come from a lesser magistrate.

So if no lesser magistrate takes a stand, we just sit by and watch the slaughter? Oh, that's right.... that's what we've been doing. Nevermind, move along, nothing to see here.

Which is one good reason I want to get out of here.

 

[Mindaboo]

Keg party -- our house Friday!

Be careful putting out that invitation! Some of us fellow Virginians live less than an hour's drive away. We'll bring our sleeping bags. What time should we be there.

 

[au5t1n]

Next time I'm visiting the Fullers, I need to meet all of you Virginians. Philip lives in VA, too -- only 45 min. from the Fullers according to Google Maps. We should arrange to have a PB party this summer!

 

[Philip]

So if no lesser magistrate takes a stand, we just sit by and watch the slaughter?

No---we stand fast and bear witness to the truth of Christ, reminding wicked rulers who they are answerable to and where their power comes from. And we do so humbly and with due deference to the offices which they hold. We render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

We should arrange to have a PB party this summer!

I'm down with that.

 

[Pilgrim Pastor]

I wrote a total 6 checks to various levels of gov't yesterday (some to pay additional taxes for 2012, some to pay the first quarterly estimates for 2013, and then the city gov't for my "business license" since the gov't considers pastors to be "self-employed"). I won't post the total here, but it was slightly more than I make in a single month, gross.

Needless to say, no refund to spend.

Gotta love that...

 

[Mindaboo]

Next time I'm visiting the Fullers, I need to meet all of you Virginians. Philip lives in VA, too -- only 45 min. from the Fullers according to Google Maps. We should arrange to have a PB party this summer!

You plan it, and I'll provide the location. There are quite a few PB people who are within driving distance from us. You just need to let me know when you plan to visit again, Austin.

 

[KMK]

10% will go to the church. Not sure about the rest.

 

[Nate]

Our children's Christian school tuition and automobile expenses.

 

[Lindsay]

I owed part to my city and am saving the rest.

 

["William The Baptist"]

I think we tithed on it, then put the bulk of it toward my school loans, then put some aside for projects materials for the house/yard.

 

[sevenzedek]

I bought a new iPad and a Schuyler bible. Then we're going to paint the downstairs and go see some family this summer and then celebrate our fifth year wedding anniversary in Tennessee. I am feeling spoiled right now. My Schuyler bible smells good and my wife looks great. I bought her some perfume too. Oh, and we're going to save some money too. We had a big return.

My son's hair-do was free.