Human Intelligence

[TeachingTulip]

Jim and I have been pondering and conversing over a new thought, and wondered what reaction PB minds might have to our recent discussions. I take a chance of embarrassing ourselves by asking this, because for all we know, it might be a old speculative question already asked, and there are opinions and/or teachings on the subject out there of which we are ignorant. Nevertheless, we would enjoy hearing what others think or have concluded.

The thought is this: It seems unlikely Adam was created tabula rasa, due to the fact he was created in the image of God, possessed language skills, and mature communicative and intellectual abilities. What we are pondering is the extent of Adam’s knowledge.

Might it be possible that Adam was created with full and exhaustive intelligence in all that we call the “sciences.” Did perhaps Adam possess complete metaphysical knowledge; beyond what has ever been suggested or discovered by the human race? When God warned Adam of death, did Adam already know exactly what God meant, and entered into sin with full knowledge of what the ramification of his actions would be?

Could it be a human, super-intelligence, reflective and likened unto God’s essential omniscience, was lost and corrupted by the fall into sin, and our inherited intellects; however developed they may now be or not be, are only a shadow and slight inkling of Adam’s created abilities to think, reason, solve, etc.

Sinners are promised, that through faith, God, who raised Jesus Christ from the dead, will raise us to new life also, and:

“. . . When He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” I John 3:2

My thinking on this verse has always been limited to imagining the physical appearance of the Lord in glory, but might our changed and glorified bodies also include restored and glorified minds, that will possess Godly and superior intellects like we have never known in our sinful state?

Or is it wrong to hope that we will have greater intellectual capacity? I do not think so, because we are commanded to love God with all “our minds,” even in our depraved condition.

Might it be that part of our reward of glory will include greater mental facilities that will enable us to better worship and reign with Christ, judge the angels, and enjoy total fellowship with an omniscient God, while remaining created beings?

Thoughts, welcome. Corrections, welcome. Ridicule, not welcome.

 

[Peairtach]

Well, Jesus when He was on Earth had to live as a man, and - in His human nature - clearly did not know all things. But His Divine Nature always remained omniscient throughout His earthly life, being Divine.

He did know things that ordinary men would not have known, revealed to Him by the Spirit through His Divine Nature; as much as he needed to know to carry out His task. But he also did not know things in His finite humanity e.g. when His Second Advent would be (See Matthew 24).

Now, Jesus in His humanity is in Heaven. He is still finite. Presumably that means as to His humanity He is still not omniscient. How can a finite Man be omniscient in His own nature? But now He has access to all the knowledge of His Deity through the Holy Spirit. Now that Chist is no longer in a state of humiliation and bearing our sins, he can forego the limitations of humanity living in a state of sin, to which He condescended in perfect holiness.

In His glorification all power and knowledge are His, not because He is human, because even a glorified human being is finite, but because He is both human and divine, he has access to all power and knowledge.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. (Revelation 5:6) The 7 eyes and 7 horns indicate omniscience and omnipotence, respectively.

Maybe before the Fall Adam and Eve had (more?) free access to special revelation from God by the Holy Spirit, in a way which was lost by sin (?)

Interesting point. Never thought of it. VG.

 

[TeachingTulip]

Well, Jesus when He was on Earth had to live as a man, and - in His human nature - clearly did not know all things. His Divine Nature always remained omniscient throughout His earthly life. He did know things that ordinary men would not have known, revealed to Him by the Spirit through His Divine Nature; as much as he needed to know to carry out His task. But he also did not know things in His finite humanity e.g. when His Second Advent would be (See Matthew 24).

The Son of God volitionally put aside His omniscience when He became a Man. It was not that He lost a divine attribute, for He was fully God as well as fully Man. He simply chose to vicariously live like His brethren, for whom He came in the flesh. Hebrews 2:9-18

Now Jesus in His humanity is in Heaven. He is still finite. Presumably that means as to His humanity He is still not omniscient. But now He has access to all the knowledge of His Deity through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus has elevated humanity to the right hand of God. Through Him, finite men have access to the infinite God. God the Son was never just finite; He was always fully infinite God, and now His humanity has been glorified in heaven.

Interesting point. Never thought of it. VG.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Peairtach]

Quote from Ronda

The Son of God volitionally put aside His omniscience when He became a Man. It was not that He lost a divine attribute, for He was fully God as well as fully Man. He simply chose to vicariously live like His brethren, for whom He came in the flesh. Hebrews 2:9-18

This is it. He was and is one Person and two Natures. In His human nature He slumbered and slept in the boat, while His Divine Nature didn't slumber and sleep (Psalm 121). He at all times had full knowledge in His Divine Nature, while at the same time had finite knowledge as a man - or the Man.

Jesus has elevated humanity to the right hand of God. Through Him, finite men have access to the infinite God. God the Son was never just finite; He was always fully infinite God, and now His humanity has been glorified in heaven.

Christ's humanity is now glorified but remains finite. The finitude of the humanity was not itself part of the humiliation. Christ's "desires were with the sons of men" (Proverbs 8) from all eternity. Christ's human nature although still finite, has access to all the knowlege that it had not while in a state of humiliation.

 

[Skyler]

Might it be possible that Adam was created with full and exhaustive intelligence in all that we call the “sciences.” Did perhaps Adam possess complete metaphysical knowledge; beyond what has ever been suggested or discovered by the human race? When God warned Adam of death, did Adam already know exactly what God meant, and entered into sin with full knowledge of what the ramification of his actions would be?

By "metaphysical", I assume you are talking about knowledge about the creation. If this is the case, then, assuming the creation is finite, it is at least possible. It would be practically impossible to pass on to one's descendants though, which accounts for why so much of the knowledge was lost.

Could it be a human, super-intelligence, reflective and likened unto God’s essential omniscience, was lost and corrupted by the fall into sin, and our inherited intellects; however developed they may now be or not be, are only a shadow and slight inkling of Adam’s created abilities to think, reason, solve, etc.

I think that's the standard position. Our brains have suffered from the degenerating effects of the Fall, just like any other organ in our bodies.

Sinners are promised, that through faith, God, who raised Jesus Christ from the dead, will raise us to new life also, and:

“. . . When He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” I John 3:2

My thinking on this verse has always been limited to imagining the physical appearance of the Lord in glory, but might our changed and glorified bodies also include restored and glorified minds, that will possess Godly and superior intellects like we have never known in our sinful state?

Certainly.

Or is it wrong to hope that we will have greater intellectual capacity? I do not think so, because we are commanded to love God with all “our minds,” even in our depraved condition.

It seems only logical, unless we wish to say that our brains were exempt from the decaying process of the Curse--which I think is disproven by the very existence of the mentally handicapped.

Might it be that part of our reward of glory will include greater mental facilities that will enable us to better worship and reign with Christ, judge the angels, and enjoy total fellowship with an omniscient God, while remaining created beings?

Thoughts, welcome. Corrections, welcome. Ridicule, not welcome.

Comments, constructive criticism, but no calumny, as requested.

 

[TeachingTulip]

http://www.puritanboard.com/f58/reminder-all-pb-members-53032/

We do not understand, Joshua.

What have we done wrong?

Before the post was put up, we searched the forums, and guessed this would be best.

Seems to us, that moderators should contribute a bit to the order of things, too.

If we get it wrong, move it (with a click).

Why make us try to read your minds as to where you want our contributions? We can't.

 

[Prufrock]

Ronda, thank you for your suggestion. Rest assured that the moderators do contribute a bit to the order of things too, moving threads around daily.

Josh was just posting a helpful reminder to make sure our threads are in proper forums: for instance, if you note the forum description here for "General Topics," it specifies it is for non-theological topics. He's just trying to make it easier for all; no worries.

 

[TeachingTulip]

Rhonda, thank you for your suggestion. Rest assured that the moderators do contribute a bit to the order of things too, moving threads around daily.

Josh was just posting a helpful reminder to make sure our threads are in proper forums: for instance, if you note the forum description here for "General Topics," it specifies it is for non-theological topics. He's just trying to make it easier for all; no worries.

The two of us were very careful, after having seen these admonitions from Joshua the last week, to scan the forums and choose the right one and give our post a proper title.

What we speculate and question, cannot possibly be considered as "theological", so we went General.

The interjection of Administrative correction in the beginning of our thread, without any helpful explanation, correction, or suggestion, caused negative reaction on our part.

It makes us sorry we posted at all . . .

 

[Prufrock]

Ronda, you needn't worry about it; and I am sorry for the negative reaction the board caused. Joshua was not scolding, only reminding us all. And I think the rest of the board is far from sorry that you posted this at all! It's a very good topic, and I thank you for submitting it.