Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
This may seem like a silly question, but I have never seen it proved from Scripture that all gambling is sinful. Can anyone shed any light on this.
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This may seem like a silly question, but I have never seen it proved from Scripture that all gambling is sinful. Can anyone shed any light on this.
This may seem like a silly question, but I have never seen it proved from Scripture that all gambling is sinful. Can anyone shed any light on this.
(a) Waste of money that we are to be stewards of
(b) Covetousness.
See also: Apologetics | Gambling
i have often wondered this, too. i have seen the argument that it is a waste of the resources God has given you, but if you do it in very moderated amounts, is it any different than paying more money to eat out than you would by eating at home, or buying a cd, or upgrading your car to have leather interior, etc? is gambling, across the board, without exception inherently sinful?
i have yet to see the answer of "yes" to this question be proved logically, soundly, & Scripturally.
(for the record, i have never gambled. lol. )
i have often wondered this, too. i have seen the argument that it is a waste of the resources God has given you, but if you do it in very moderated amounts, is it any different than paying more money to eat out than you would by eating at home, or buying a cd, or upgrading your car to have leather interior, etc? is gambling, across the board, without exception inherently sinful?
i have yet to see the answer of "yes" to this question be proved logically, soundly, & Scripturally.
(for the record, i have never gambled. lol. )
I am much the same Dena. Your arguments make a lot of sense.
Would gambling large amounts be a sign of covetousness?
Travis, that was absurd. The two are not analogous.Anyone here own stock, pretty much an educated gamble, people here angry at mutual fund investments or trading?
I agree, but since I have had this debate here before......I refrain from further posts.This may seem like a silly question, but I have never seen it proved from Scripture that all gambling is sinful. Can anyone shed any light on this.
(a) Waste of money that we are to be stewards of
(b) Covetousness.
See also: Apologetics | Gambling
I don't think so, some people make huge gambles in stocks in an effort to get rich quick, depressions and Wall Street crashes can happen, thousands of dollars can be lost in minutes on the trader floors.Travis, that was absurd. The two are not analogous.Anyone here own stock, pretty much an educated gamble, people here angry at mutual fund investments or trading?
IT has more to do with not trusting in the providence of God to provide.
IT has more to do with not trusting in the providence of God to provide.
The Larger Catechism condemns wasteful gaming: does that mean that non-wasteful gaming is OK? How is wasteful defined?
The English word "lottery" comes from the Dutch "lotterij." And actually, the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands sanctioned lotteries (gambling) in the 17th century as a way of helping the poor. Lotteries were held to support hospitals and poor houses, etc. I haven't been able to tell what the reaction of the Dutch puritans (Nadere Reformatie) was to all this, but it was definitely widely accepted.
For what it's worth.
All lawful recreation is only in the use of things indifferent, which are in themselves neither commanded nor forbidden.
...
How are we to use recreations?...four special rules:
Rule 1. We are to make choice of recreations that are of least offense and of the best report.
Rule 2. Our recreations must be profitable to ourselves and others, and they must tend also to the glory of God.
Rule 3. The end of our recreation must be to refresh our bodies and minds.
Rule 4. Recreation must be moderate and sparing, even as the use of meat and drink and rest.
...
Games may be divided into three sorts: games of wit or industry, games of hazard, and a mixture of both. Games of wit or industry are such as are ordered by the skill and industry of man. Of this sort are shooting in the longbow, shooting in the caliver, running, wrestling, fencing, music, and the games of chess and draughts...These, and all of this kind, wherein the industry of the mind and body hath the chiefest stroke, are very commendable, and not to be disliked. Games of hazard are those in which hazard only bears the sway and orders the game, and not wit: wherein also there is, as we say, chance, yea mere chance in regard of us. Now games that are of mere hazard, by the consent of godly divines are unlawful. The reasons are these: First, games of mere hazard are indeed lots, and the use of a lot is an act of religion, in which we refer unto the God determination of things of moment that can no other way be determined...Secondly, such games are not recreations, but rather matter of stirring up troublesome passions, as fear, sorrow...Thirdly, covetousness is commonly the ground of them all. Whereupon it is that men usually play for money. And for these causes such plays...are unlawful. The third kind of plays are mixed, which stand partly of hazard and partly of wit, and in which hazard begins the game and skill gets the victory, and that which is defective by reason of hazard is corrected by wit...Now the common opinion of learned divines is that, as they are not to be commended, so they are not simply to be condemned, and if they be used they must be used very sparingly.
-- William Perkins, cited in A Puritan Golden Treasury by I.D.E. Thomas
The Larger Catechism condemns wasteful gaming: does that mean that non-wasteful gaming is OK? How is wasteful defined?
6. What is "wasteful gaming" and why is it wrong? By "wasteful gaming" the catechism denotes all forms of gambling, which are inherently sinful because they involve an attempt to gain wealth without rendering an equivalent value in return. If the gambler wins, he is a thief; if he loses, he is a waster of his Lord's property. The fact that gambling involves an implied agreement to transfer money or property one way or the other as determined by the "chance" fall of dice, etc., does not make it legitimate. A contract to do something sinful is itself sinful. It has been well said that gamblings stands in the same relation to stealing as dueling does to murder. Gambling includes "slot machines," raffles, "punch boards," betting, lotteries, games of chance played for money or prizes, various forms of "pools," etc. All of these are essentially immoral, and Christian people should leave them all strictly alone. Gambling is not only a sinful vice, but a fever which grows on a person until he cannot let it alone. The only safe and right course is to have nothing whatever to do with gambling in any form. Of course churches and civic organizations that sponsor any kind of gambling scheme are beneath contempt.
--J.G. VosBy "wasteful gaming" the catechism denotes all forms of gambling, which are inherently sinful because they involve an attempt to gain wealth without rendering an equivalent value in return.
All that is good stuff. But I'd prompt you to buy Gestner's "The Early Writings" where he has a very good chapter against Gambling.
The English word "lottery" comes from the Dutch "lotterij." And actually, the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands sanctioned lotteries (gambling) in the 17th century as a way of helping the poor. Lotteries were held to support hospitals and poor houses, etc. I haven't been able to tell what the reaction of the Dutch puritans (Nadere Reformatie) was to all this, but it was definitely widely accepted.
For what it's worth.
First, Teellinck's stress on external sanctification must be understood against the backdrop of the numerous sins and faults of his generation that deeply troubled him. According to Teellinck and like-minded contemporaries, both society and the church were plagued by lasciviousness, which was promoted by dancing, immoral jokes, amorous literature, and card playing, often accompanied by gambling.
106. Warn your children against casting lots, and do not let them play cards or gamble, for these are diabolical games in which God-fearing children do not participate. For the same reason, never let them play the goose board, the owl board, or the snake board,[2] because dice are used in them. You must show that God wants us to use the lot in a holy manner and in worship of him, not in a game. After all, his providence is connected with dice, for in Proverbs 16:33 we read, "The lot is cast into the lap, but the whole disposing of it is of the Lord." Though skill is essential in card games, the distribution of the cards is determined by lot. There are other -- legitimate -- games available to them. Therefore, see to it that they learn to dislike these seductively enchanting but ungodly games. And if they ever yield to them, discipline them early, if you love them (see Prov. 13:24).
[2] Seventeeth-century games of which only the first is still known today.