Is Mental Illness Real?

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

Thank you Monica and many others who contributed to this subject in an edifying way. I plan on reading through the whole thing again when I get a chance.

Respectfully, MacArthur's remarks were ignorant.

Like in other areas, looking at adjacent conditions other than seemingly abstract conditions can shed light. Unless I missed it, demetial

Cancer, heart attacks, strokes, pulmonary embolism, and chicken pox are secular terms.

No, they aren't. They are definitions of physical ailments. In and of themselves they are only definitions.
"Mental illness" is an arbitrary term that conflates and confuses physical and spiritual issues. It did not exist before people decided they could try to treat the mind like it was a physical organ that could be medicated. The brain may be an organ, but it is the seat of the mind and not the mind itself. If the chair is broken you will fall out of the chair- so fix the chair. If you sit in the broken chair and become injured both you and the chair need to be fixed. If your arm is broken, but the chair is fine you do not need to fix the chair. If you take a saw to the chair, cut it in half, then try to sit in it and hurt yourself- you are the problem, but you must still fix the chair and yourself.

A physical illness that causes the brain to malfunction, and therefore affects the mind, is not "mental illness". It's physical illness.
A sinful response to someone else's sin is not "mental illness"- it's sin. If this sinful response involves illicit drug use it may require special intervention, but it's still sin- not "mental illness".

 

[ZackF]

"Mental illness" is an arbitrary term that conflates and confuses physical and spiritual issues.

It seems your post is making my point. Why is mental illness an arbitrary term? It is describing a reality (poor cognition, bad ideation/imagination, erratic behavior, seemingly irrational fear) that may have physical causes including the sinfulness of others.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

It seems your post is making my point. Why is mental illness an arbitrary term? It is describing a reality (poor cognition, bad ideation/imagination, erratic behavior, seemingly irrational fear) that may have physical causes including the sinfulness of others.

The sinfulness of others is not a physical cause. You did not understand my post if you think I was making your point.

 

[Taahanni]

The strangest comment I saw, probably by far, was the one user who said something like "We didn't need to use the Bible to treat this person- praise God!"

It would appear you are referring to my comment about ART being a useful therapy for people with trauma and how one can go through a session without hearing anything from the Bible. If I am correct, I respectfully ask that you would take the time to read and study my whole original post and not grossly misinterpret what I said. I am not saying “praise God” because an individual was healed without the Bible. I am saying “praise God” that He provided means of healing for people struggling with severe PTSD. You say you know people who have come out more messed up from going to counseling outside the church, but chances are those people were not continuing to get guidance from a pastor or church mentor as I said is really important if one seeks counseling outside their church. That is also purely anecdotal, and I could argue that I also know people who have come out “more messed up” from church counseling because they went seeking help and were given Bible verses to read with no practical application, and that resulted in them feeling even more discouraged, and sometimes to the point of leaving their church.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

Ultimately, I think it would be marvelous if more Christians acknowledged the fact that some therapeutic methods out there are gifts from God. Man is the pinnacle of His creation, and He gave us inquiring minds. God has revealed to those inquiring minds how complex the brain is. Consider ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy), which was designed for helping individuals with PTSD. One can go through a whole ART session without hearing a single Bible verse, but they leave that session experiencing dramatic change because their trauma is not haunting them anymore. Is that not wonderful? I was trained in this therapy and saw firsthand remarkable results in several clients. These clients would have recurring nightmares and flashbacks about their trauma(s), and in a follow-up one week later, they would reveal to me that they hardly even think about that trauma anymore. Praise God!

It would appear you are referring to my comment about ART being a useful therapy for people with trauma and how one can go through a session without hearing anything from the Bible. If I am correct, I respectfully ask that you would take the time to read and study my whole original post and not grossly misinterpret what I said. I am not saying “praise God” because an individual was healed without the Bible. I am saying “praise God” that He provided means of healing for people struggling with severe PTSD. You say you know people who have come out more messed up from going to counseling outside the church, but chances are those people were not continuing to get guidance from a pastor or church mentor as I said is really important if one seeks counseling outside their church. That is also purely anecdotal, and I could argue that I also know people who have come out “more messed up” from church counseling because they went seeking help and were given Bible verses to read with no practical application, and that resulted in them feeling even more discouraged, and sometimes to the point of leaving their church.

Read what you said (I actually had to search for the reference post). The implication is that we should praise God that people can be healed without the Bible. That's such a strange thing to say. Obviously common grace is real, but words are important, and you should reconsider how you stated that. The way you stated might as well have read "I can do therapy and we don't even need the Bible. Huzzah!" I'm not saying that's your intent, but the implications of what you said are straight up disturbing. When have you ever heard anyone go "My surgeon removed my cancer and he wasn't even a Christian!!" Well, ok then. That would be a weird thing to have to qualify unless one needed to justify their use of that particular practitioner.



I already addressed the experience piece which you would know if you read and studied my post as you are telling me to do with yours.

 

[Taahanni]

Read what you said (I actually had to search for the reference post). The implication is that we should praise God that people can be healed without the Bible. That's such a strange thing to say. Obviously common grace is real, but words are important, and you should reconsider how you stated that. The way you stated might as well have read "I can do therapy and we don't even need the Bible. Huzzah!" I'm not saying that's your intent, but the implications of what you said are straight up disturbing. When have you ever heard anyone go "My surgeon removed my cancer and he wasn't even a Christian!!" Well, ok then. That would be a weird thing to have to qualify unless one needed to justify their use of that particular practitioner.



I already addressed the experience piece which you would know if you read and studied my post as you are telling me to do with yours.

No one else seems to have gotten that impression from what I said, so I’m not sure how or why you did. I do believe you are missing the point of my original post. I think I stated very clearly the importance of receiving Biblical guidance throughout the whole counseling process. In any case, I will restate something I mentioned earlier, that I do not think true healing can come without the Gospel.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

No one else seems to have gotten that impression from what I said, so I’m not sure how or why you did. I do believe you are missing the point of my original post. I think I stated very clearly the importance of receiving Biblical guidance throughout the whole counseling process. In any case, I will restate something I mentioned earlier, that I do not think true healing can come without the Gospel.

I believe that, as pertains to the Spirit, the Gospel alone is sufficient.

As pertains to the body, medications may be used.

Where the body is the primary problem, such as a TBI or a disease like Tourettes, then we treat the body. Obviously we don't treat the body by throwing a Bible at it, but I think we would all hope the doctor has been influenced by Christian medical ethics.

When the spirit is the problem we offer either Biblical encouragement or rebuke- whichever is needed- perhaps both.

If there are overlapping issues between spiritual and physical we may treat the body and spirit in tandem.

I do not believe in "mental health" because I do not think anything other than the Bible is needed to treat the spirit.

 

[Taahanni]

Thank you Monica and many others who contributed to this subject in an edifying way. I plan on reading through the whole thing again when I get a chance.

Respectfully, MacArthur's remarks were ignorant and demonstrate such a truncated view of causality.

Like in other areas, looking at adjacent conditions other than seemingly abstract conditions can shed light on the subject. Unless I missed it, demetia has not been considered. If I missed it, I'll write more after going through the thread again. Dementia makes for better thought experiments because the idea of a physical cause being the source of negative and reduced cognitive and behavioral output is not controversial.

My main point is to those who would outright dismiss secular designations, often just symptom clusters, and necessarily deny any physical casaulity that cannot be directly attributable to a sin. Here is the rub: should a person with dementia be placed on church discipline for saying horrible things about his neighbor that hitherto we unheard of? Is he merely sinning?

This is where wisdom comes in to play with medication and "confrontation."

This is a good question about dementia. I also know some individuals whose personalities were altered dramatically following a stroke. I often wonder where counseling comes into play in situations like these. These issues definitely require much prayer!

 

[FivePointSpurgeonist]

I have benefited greatly from MacArhur... but this video was helpful, thanks for sharing.

 

[Stephen L Smith]

Thank you for the book recommendation. I'll look into it. I'm familiar with Care through her Children's books, but I'm not familiar with the Paraclete method. I'd appreciate any resources

I sincerely encourage you- read Simonetta Carr's book then we can discuss if mental illness is an appropriate term.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

I sincerely encourage you- read Simonetta Carr's book then we can discuss if mental illness is an appropriate term.

I'll put it on my list. I have a toddler and a newborn, so it might be a year or twelve before I actually get it read.

 

[FivePointSpurgeonist]

For anyone interested, John MacArthur clarifies what he said in this recent sermon.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

For anyone interested, John MacArthur clarifies what he said in this recent sermon.

Do you have the time/ability to briefly summarize this?

 

[retroGRAD3]

See the time stamps. MacArthur adds nuance to his comment at the end of this interview. I, for the most part, agree with him.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

See the time stamps. MacArthur adds nuance to his comment at the end of this interview. I, for the most part, agree with him.

I listened to the time stamp relevant to the OP. I just don't have time to watch the full video. I absolutely agree with MacArthur, and even the DSM criteria propose PTSD as a reaction to extreme violence. Jay Adams talks about psychology and psychiatry being largely in the business of removing personal responsibility from individuals. I'm sensitive to the fact that bad things happen to people, but we cannot control what other people do- we can only control our response to what other people do. That is the problem with this entire thread. Almost no one seems willing to admonish people to take personal responsibility because they would rather medicate and reprogram (whatever that even means). I wonder how many hymns of the faith would have never been written if we had modern PTSD "treatments".

 

[Taahanni]

See the time stamps. MacArthur adds nuance to his comment at the end of this interview. I, for the most part, agree with him.

I watched this video and like a lot of what MacArthur has to say. I agree that many Christians want to shirk responsibility for their behaviors by classifying them as a "behavioral disorder" or some diagnosis, and I do think our culture is too quick to medicalize sin. I would definitely consider myself someone who does not believe in an ADHD diagnosis and think that "ADHD" is rather a product of our instant gratification society and/or lack of parental training in the ability to foster focus. I do not believe in giving children medication for any reason (perhaps with a VERY rare exception) because of the detrimental effects they have on a developing child's brain, especially considering the fact that most psychotropic medications were only tested on adult men in trials until financial incentives came into play to have them tested on children... I do not want to repeat myself too much from earlier posts, but I do agree too many individuals turn to medications to "fix" their mental issues. However, I do believe in rare occasions a medication can really help someone who is struggling get out of a deep rut, as long as that medication is not meant to be long-term.

However, I do think MacArthur is oversimplifying this issue. I do not think the mind and the brain can be so easily separated. Yes, there are instances where anxiety/depression is purely spiritual (e.g. someone who is struggling with a cardinal sin, such as an addiction to substances or gambling or p0rnography, and continually falls back into that sin), but how is anxiety/depression explained in someone who is not struggling in that way? (Do not interpret me as saying that there are people out there without spiritual struggles... I know we all have them and will continue to have them until reunited with Christ. What I mean is that some sins are very clearly linked with feeling anxious/depressed.) Many individuals struggling with anxiety or depression experience a significant improvement in their symptoms when they change their diets and improve their physical health. For instance, eating too much sugar or drinking too much caffeine are strongly linked with elevated anxiety. Postpartum depression has also been linked to dietary/mineral deficiencies following birth. Additionally, PTSD does impact one's brain in very physical ways, and there are therapies like EMDR and ART that are based upon healing physical connections in the brain. I think there can be two major errors when discussing this topic: thinking the mind is totally controlled by physical aspects of the brain (i.e. behavioralism/naturalism) and gnosticism (thinking the brain and mind are two totally separate things and can never be addressed together).

 

[Ploutos]

I think there can be two major errors when discussing this topic: thinking the mind is totally controlled by physical aspects of the brain (i.e. behavioralism/naturalism) and gnosticism (thinking the brain and mind are two totally separate things and can never be addressed together).

Well said.

 

[TheInquirer]

That is the problem with this entire thread. Almost no one seems willing to admonish people to take personal responsibility because they would rather medicate and reprogram (whatever that even means)

No, we are confronting the view that says mental issues are ENTIRELY the result of personal responsibility. Such a view sounds more like Tony Robbins and his ilk rather than something from a Christian worldview.

 

[Ploutos]

No, we are confronting the view that says mental issues are ENTIRELY the result of personal responsibility.

Agreed. I don't really see anybody in this thread diminishing the role of personal responsibility - just providing some helpful qualification that seems to be missing from JMA's video, to judge by the comments. (I have not yet watched the video.)

 

[bookslover]

Well, we've been through this before, of course. Back in the '90s, MacArthur stated that there was no such thing as depression. In effect, he said that he had never been depressed, therefore, there is no such thing as depression.

My late wife was bipolar, and it was the meds she was on that kept her stable and functioning. On two occasions, she had to be institutionalized briefly so that her meds could be tweaked. But, most of the time, she was a stable, wonderful wife and mother to our three children. My daughter, by the way, is also bipolar and, as with her mother, it's her meds that keep her stabilized and functional.

MacArthur has done a lot of good for the church (his "leaky dispensationalism" notwithstanding) since 1969. But I definitely think it's time for him to retire. He's going to be 85 on June 19th and his wife is not well. Time to pull the plug before he does more damage to the cause of Christ and to his reputation.

 

[retroGRAD3]

The video segment where he addresses his comments is only 5 minutes if that helps people. Check the time stamps, it is right at the end.

 

[FivePointSpurgeonist]

I’ve listened to Jmacs clarifications and tend to agree with him, although I’m not sure what to do with my own experiences.

I had for many years been flat, I always saw this as a chemical imbalance as I had no spiritual depression, or any reason to be depressed. I rejected the idea that I had depression and refused any sort of medication as I had only ever heard negative things.

I ended up with quite severe chronic fatigue which didn’t help, I was so flat that it was almost impossible for me to have fun with my son, I had to force it myself for his sake.

I had a box of Prozac in my cupboard that I refused to touch and one day when I felt like my options had run out, I remembered the medication in the cupboard and felt a sense of needing to try it, surely any side effects couldn’t be as bad as I am now.

I decided with my wife to give it a try and in the Lords providence, it took the full 3 months to take effect and almost to the day of our 2nd child being born, it started making a significant difference. My mind wasn’t altered in any negative way, no negative side effects, it just made me normal again. The difference was night and day, I was able to enjoy our newborn, play with my son and be silly and fun, it seemed like a tremendous blessing and the Lords graciousness to us. I’ve been on them for a year with no negative impact, I can barely remember what it felt like before this. I’ve now started to wean off them, supposedly this medication is easier to get off than most others.

Some people from church knew what I was going through and would often ask how I was doing, with excitement I’d tell people I’m doing much better, although it was interesting some of the reactions I got when I told them it was because I started on an antidepressant, people couldn’t hide their facial reaction like I’d told them some gross sin, I just stopped telling people

I’ve certainly assumed it was a chemical imbalance, and I’ve often wondered if it was a result of my use of substances 10+ years ago before I was saved.

Am I somehow deceived? Was I wrong to take this medication? I’d love any thoughts on this.

 

[RamistThomist]

I’ve listened to Jmacs clarifications and tend to agree with him, although I’m not sure what to do with my own experiences.

I had for many years been flat, I always saw this as a chemical imbalance as I had no spiritual depression, or any reason to be depressed. I rejected the idea that I had depression and refused any sort of medication as I had only ever heard negative things.

I ended up with quite severe chronic fatigue which didn’t help, I was so flat that it was almost impossible for me to have fun with my son, I had to force it myself for his sake.

I had a box of Prozac in my cupboard that I refused to touch and one day when I felt like my options had run out, I remembered the medication in the cupboard and felt a sense of needing to try it, surely any side effects couldn’t be as bad as I am now.

I decided with my wife to give it a try and in the Lords providence, it took the full 3 months to take effect and almost to the day of our 2nd child being born, it started making a significant difference. My mind wasn’t altered in any negative way, no negative side effects, it just made me normal again. The difference was night and day, I was able to enjoy our newborn, play with my son and be silly and fun, it seemed like a tremendous blessing and the Lords graciousness to us. I’ve been on them for a year with no negative impact, I can barely remember what it felt like before this. I’ve now started to wean off them, supposedly this medication is easier to get off than most others.

Some people from church knew what I was going through and would often ask how I was doing, with excitement I’d tell people I’m doing much better, although it was interesting some of the reactions I got when I told them it was because I started on an antidepressant, people couldn’t hide their facial reaction like I’d told them some gross sin, I just stopped telling people

I’ve certainly assumed it was a chemical imbalance, and I’ve often wondered if it was a result of my use of substances 10+ years ago before I was saved.

Am I somehow deceived? Was I wrong to take this medication? I’d love any thoughts on this.

You were correct and the more extreme of interpretation of jmac is wrong

 

[No Other Name]

I’ve listened to Jmacs clarifications and tend to agree with him, although I’m not sure what to do with my own experiences.

I had for many years been flat, I always saw this as a chemical imbalance as I had no spiritual depression, or any reason to be depressed. I rejected the idea that I had depression and refused any sort of medication as I had only ever heard negative things.

I ended up with quite severe chronic fatigue which didn’t help, I was so flat that it was almost impossible for me to have fun with my son, I had to force it myself for his sake.

I had a box of Prozac in my cupboard that I refused to touch and one day when I felt like my options had run out, I remembered the medication in the cupboard and felt a sense of needing to try it, surely any side effects couldn’t be as bad as I am now.

I decided with my wife to give it a try and in the Lords providence, it took the full 3 months to take effect and almost to the day of our 2nd child being born, it started making a significant difference. My mind wasn’t altered in any negative way, no negative side effects, it just made me normal again. The difference was night and day, I was able to enjoy our newborn, play with my son and be silly and fun, it seemed like a tremendous blessing and the Lords graciousness to us. I’ve been on them for a year with no negative impact, I can barely remember what it felt like before this. I’ve now started to wean off them, supposedly this medication is easier to get off than most others.

Some people from church knew what I was going through and would often ask how I was doing, with excitement I’d tell people I’m doing much better, although it was interesting some of the reactions I got when I told them it was because I started on an antidepressant, people couldn’t hide their facial reaction like I’d told them some gross sin, I just stopped telling people

I’ve certainly assumed it was a chemical imbalance, and I’ve often wondered if it was a result of my use of substances 10+ years ago before I was saved.

Am I somehow deceived? Was I wrong to take this medication? I’d love any thoughts on this.

How could it be wrong if it worked for a time and you need it no longer as you continue to grow in the Lord? A genuine question there.

I absolutely think our sinful past plays a role in how long/what measures are needed to heal.

Spiritual disciplines are crucial and indispensable in sanctification, no doubt. Period. But what about other methods added to spiritual disciplines?

Do people give the same facial reaction you got when an ex-drunk credits the role detox and rehab played in his healing? Do people give the same facial reactions you got when an ex-pron viewer credits accountability software for its role in his healing?

Now, I understand that these extra-biblical tools do not have the same degree of potential abuse as psychological meds do, but sometimes it is too easy for people to react negatively as if the primary problem with the meds is that they are extra-biblical additions to spiritual disciplines and that simply is not a rational position in my opinion.

 

[Taahanni]

I’ve certainly assumed it was a chemical imbalance, and I’ve often wondered if it was a result of my use of substances 10+ years ago before I was saved.

Am I somehow deceived? Was I wrong to take this medication? I’d love any thoughts on this.

Prolonged use of substances does affect your brain even after years of sobriety. The severity of the effects of course depends on the severity of the substance use and the substances that were used. During the course of substance use, your brain "forgets" how to regulate emotions naturally. This is because your brain develops neural connections that essentially say, "I cannot feel joy unless this substance is in my body," and the connections that communicated to your brain that you can feel joy from natural things (such as a walk outside, fellowship with other people, etc) are weakened in the process, hence feeling "flat" as you have described. Medications like Prozac can "jumpstart" your brain so that it remembers what it is supposed to do. I do not think medications should ever be one's first go-to with things like this, but the option should always be kept open. In your case, it sounds like it was really necessary. I think it is great that Prozac was able to help you in that way and that you are weaning off it. Blessings to you in your healing journey, and I am sorry to hear you have received judgment for using Prozac to help you in this.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

No, we are confronting the view that says mental issues are ENTIRELY the result of personal responsibility. Such a view sounds more like Tony Robbins and his ilk rather than something from a Christian worldview.

Who is Tony Robbins and who are his "ilk"? I think most of these so called "mental issues" are coming from a Freudian worldview and the interpretations of his "ilk" and not from a Biblical worldview.

 

[Stephen L Smith]

although I’m not sure what to do with my own experiences.

I had for many years been flat, I always saw this as a chemical imbalance as I had no spiritual depression, or any reason to be depressed. I rejected the idea that I had depression and refused any sort of medication as I had only ever heard negative things.

Nathan, there was a conference in your country earlier this year, hosted by the two Free Reformed Churches in Tasmania, dealing with this issue. You can listen to these messages at this link. Scroll down past the Conference schedule to access them. I highly recommend these lectures.

Grace & Truth | TAS 2023

graceandtruth.net.au

 

[Ploutos]

As with so many other topics, on the issue of mental illness it is possible to recognize the ways in which our society gets it wrong, without reacting one's way into a maximalist or denialist position. We can recognize that birth control, for example, is overused and wrongly used - but that doesn't mean we should all become quiverfull. Or we can recognize that modern medicine is flawed and often wrong (increasingly so now) without radically rejecting all of traditional medicine.

Likewise, with mental illness, it's perfectly fine to recognize that the concept is overused, misapplied, cheapened; that medications are over-prescribed and the dangers understated. But if the diagnoses and the pills should be more sparingly applied, there is still a time and a place for them. It takes a lack of both personal experience and sensitivity to flat-out deny that there is ever legitimate mental illness or a time and place for some "modern" treatment modalities. Certainly, in our day and age, overuse of medication is more of an issue than underuse, but the overwhelming prevalence of one issue doesn't negate the existence of the opposite issue.

I wish I could remember the page number, but I have for years benefited from pondering Bavinck's statement that we must not overreact to error. It is a sad truth that Newton's Third Law seems so often to apply to the intellectual world as much as the physical, but by being solidly grounded, we can resist the temptation to meet one extreme with another.

 

[John Bunion's Big Toe]

As with so many other topics, on the issue of mental illness it is possible to recognize the ways in which our society gets it wrong, without reacting one's way into a maximalist or denialist position. We can recognize that birth control, for example, is overused and wrongly used - but that doesn't mean we should all become quiverfull. Or we can recognize that modern medicine is flawed and often wrong (increasingly so now) without radically rejecting all of traditional medicine.

Likewise, with mental illness, it's perfectly fine to recognize that the concept is overused, misapplied, cheapened; that medications are over-prescribed and the dangers understated. But if the diagnoses and the pills should be more sparingly applied, there is still a time and a place for them. It takes a lack of both personal experience and sensitivity to flat-out deny that there is ever legitimate mental illness or a time and place for some "modern" treatment modalities. Certainly, in our day and age, overuse of medication is more of an issue than underuse, but the overwhelming prevalence of one issue doesn't negate the existence of the opposite issue.

I wish I could remember the page number, but I have for years benefited from pondering Bavinck's statement that we must not overreact to error. It is a sad truth that Newton's Third Law seems so often to apply to the intellectual world as much as the physical, but by being solidly grounded, we can resist the temptation to meet one extreme with another.

I appreciate this, but you seem to be missing the point I've been making. We know people struggle with being downtrodden, for example. That does not make the individual "mentally ill". My personal issue is not with acknowledging that people have many and diverse struggles, my problem is with saying they are mentally ill. Define mental illness. What exactly is "mental illness"? They are not sick. Someone being hungry and therefore angry is not "mentally ill", but we are going to say someone who has a hormonal imbalance and is struggling with their mood is "mentally ill"?. No they aren't- that person has an organic problem- not mental illness. For what it's worth, I've been on medication for a decade now due to an actual neurological issue and that issue is known to come with mood disorders for a lot a people- usually as a medication side effect, and at times as an effect of loss of the ability to do a lot things we'd like to do because of our organic illness. People like me do not have "mental illness". We have a genuine organic problem that needs help and we need encouragement and support from friends, family, and church community. I also grew up with abusive parents and have experienced severe depression, due to both that and my health issues combined. It's silly assume what a person has or has not experienced based on what he or she believes. It is absolutely possible to believe that both organic and spiritual problems exist and that they do interact with each other- while also not believing "mental illness" exists.

 

[AngusD123]

I have been looking at this thread intermittently but until now I have not had the time to contribute. As a neurologist I know a fair bit about the brain, though I am not an expert in mental illness per se.

Some facts which, to my mind at least, conclusively refute the assertions that a) the brain and mind are entirely separate and b) mental illness is purely a spiritual problem due to sin:

• “Physical” illnesses cause mental health symptoms. E.g. anxiety after a stroke, depression in Parkinson’s (even long before the diagnosis). I frequently cause psychotic symptoms in my patients with Parkinson’s by the drugs I prescribe. I could quote many more examples.
• Biological processes can cause “mental health” diseases. E.g. cannabis-induced psychosis, some forms of autoimmune encephalitis (encephalitis caused by antibodies attacking parts of cells in the brain), genetic influences on bipolar affective disorder etc.
• Psychological problems can cause physical symptoms. E.g. palpitations, abdominal pain, etc.
• Psychological problems can cause physical illness. E.g. non-epileptic attacks (already mentioned in this thread), chronic pain disorders etc.

Furthermore, we can’t conclude that an illness isn’t real, just because we don’t understand what causes it, or because we don’t have physical evidence of a disease e.g. on a scan. Fancy starting a thread called “Is migraine real?”, anyone?

I view mental illness as a disturbance of brain function arising from a complex interplay of biological, psychological, social, and spiritual factors. These should all be considered when helping someone with mental illness. Failure to do so may cause harm.