ZackF
Puritan Board Professor
It’s the word “informed” I don’t understand. Why not just care or trauma care?
Is Mental Illness Real?
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Ploutos
Puritan Board Sophomore
I've been very leery of what I've read about trauma-informed care. It seems to have a subjective element and an implicit assumption of trust in and truthfulness of the victim, which may be warranted but can't be categorically assumed.
GRACE is a big proponent of TIC, though that's a topic for another thread (and one that has been discussed here in the past, for those who want to get into that topic).
Taahanni
Puritan Board Freshman
Because it is not really about trauma and more about pushing an ideology. If you do not like “trauma informed” care, then you are “uninformed” and “willfully ignorant”.
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
As it was explained to me basically you need to be aware that some of your students act out because they have 'trauma.' Fair enough. Then it encompasses literally everything and we aren't supposed to doubt that their little tiff with their friend gave them trauma.
When I asked how is this supposed to be help me with classroom management and how to get the kid under control I was met with blank stares and no answer has ever come to me on it.
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
If you gain a lot and are able to contribute to people's growth on this board, I wouldn't bow out because some of your views don't fit the majority. I know some of my views don't, but I feel as if we can all still respectfully hold our opinions, and I never feel personally attacked for what I believe. The people on here are the cream of the crop in my opinion, so you are always going to be able to learn good things and be encouraged, even when you don't agree on everything.
Ploutos
Puritan Board Sophomore
Taahanni
Puritan Board Freshman
I look forward to reading this.
Taahanni
Puritan Board Freshman
This is exactly it. Some of the stories I’ve heard about “trauma” are absurd, including one individual who was traumatized because her parents delegated chores to her, and she “missed out on childhood”. Truly, it is sad. Weakness is one of the gods of our society.
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
Thought it good to post this here.
gentlereformation.com
Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren’t Growing Up
Some of you need to fire your child’s therapist right away. Some of you need to figure out what interactions your school psychologist, counselors, and paraprofessionals are having with your children. With. Your. Children. Children are being ruined by therapeutic parenting and our therapeutic...
gentlereformation.com
Ploutos
Puritan Board Sophomore
I read this article recently and I thought it was very insightful.Thought it good to post this here.
Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren’t Growing Up
Some of you need to fire your child’s therapist right away. Some of you need to figure out what interactions your school psychologist, counselors, and paraprofessionals are having with your children. With. Your. Children. Children are being ruined by therapeutic parenting and our therapeutic...
Taahanni
Puritan Board Freshman
Have you read the book? It sounds like it would be a beneficial read.Thought it good to post this here.
Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren’t Growing Up
Some of you need to fire your child’s therapist right away. Some of you need to figure out what interactions your school psychologist, counselors, and paraprofessionals are having with your children. With. Your. Children. Children are being ruined by therapeutic parenting and our therapeutic...
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
I haven't but I am going to soon.
AgentWillis
Puritan Board Freshman
An Insubstantial Book for a Weighty Problem
Abigail Shrier's 'Bad Therapy' is addressing real and substantial problems, but it's derisive tone and lack of rigor keeps it from being the book we need.
mereorthodoxy.com
I've found this article on the book that may serve as a more in-depth review including critiquing certain aspects of it. Food for thought.
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ZackF
Puritan Board Professor
I'll have to look into that. It seems one of those things where a modifier is added that isn't needed. I'm surprised I've never heard of the term, or I've glanced over it until this thread. Counseling is an interest of mine and I read secular and Christian sources. Strange.
Taahanni
Puritan Board Freshman
The modifier is in there to make you sound like the bad guy for not buying into it. Who doesn’t want to be “informed”? It’s like the term “social justice”… who doesn’t want “justice”?
n_c
Puritan Board Freshman
I would be very, very careful when making these kinds of "self-studied" dismissals about any well-established social phenomena.
There's been a trend I've seen among people who deny ADHD that
- Conflate self-diagnosed ADHD with medically diagnosed ADHD. Self-diagnosis has gone through the roof in recent years. But medically diagnosed children/adults have always been around the same, even from before to after social media (5% in kids and 2% in adults).
- Downplay the effect of ADHD without social media, often just calling it "bad parenting" or "behavioral issues" and punish the kid in a way that won't change any behavior but just give them anxiety. Small things too like telling them to "sit still" or "stop zoning out" or "study harder." Perhaps "pay better attention during sermon" at church. And if you're a peer at school, maybe call them weird or bully them for acting out all the time.
- Think that ADHD can be solved purely by behavior without the need for medicine. This one is the most prevalent in my opinion. Yes, the secondary effects of it like getting bad grades or being organized can be helped through changing habits and addressing behaviors, but the core issues are purely physiological. A good analogy is like telling someone who's nearsighted to squint so they can read instead of giving them glasses. Sure, they can but it's physically straining to do this for the rest of your life. It also doesn't solve the core issues which is literally in the name (attention deficit + hyperactivity).
Taahanni
Puritan Board Freshman
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "self-studied"? I ask because I want to make sure I do not develop any assumptions based off a faulty interpretation of what you mean by this term.
Also, do you really mean any well-established social phenomena? Personality disorders, Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), and Conduct Disorder are also "well-established social phenomena" of which I hope you lend no credibility. These examples do happen to be a medicalization of sin nature. ADHD is hotly contested even in the field of psychology/counseling. Debate continues to go on in regards to whether it is a cultural construct or a genetic issue. There are therapies that are purely behavioral as well as therapies that utilize medication.
This is incorrect. I am unsure where you got these numbers. The NIH/NIMH, CDC, WHO report different numbers. See these links:
Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
An overview of statistics for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). ADHD is one of the most common childhood disorders and can continue through adolescence and into adulthood. Symptoms include difficulty staying focused and paying attention, difficulty controlling behavior, and...
As you can see from the NIMH link, ADHD prevalence has increased by over 40%.
This is a loaded statement, and I am not sure I can address all of it adequately. Inability to pay attention for long or sit still is a common thing in childhood. I do not think that constitutes ADHD. I agree that parents shouldn't bully their children or punish them harshly, but are there not times where you do expect your child to sit still and pay attention? What are the implications drawn from this, that we resort to "gentle parenting" and do not help our children learn how to foster focus? Shepherding our children requires correction as well as respect, so I do agree they should not be bullied.
I do not agree with the core issues being purely physiological because there are adults who develop ADHD, and they did not have it in childhood. How does this happen? Is it because of bad habits (behavioral and mental)? Something else? I find the analogy presented to be flawed because the brain is malleable and can be changed through changing behavior. For instance, if someone who has never run before wants to pick up running, they have to persist in the practice of running before it becomes enjoyable. This is as much of a mental exercise as well as a physical exercise. When trying to establish a new habit, your brain is in the process of developing new neural connections, which does physically alter your brain. The person who used to hate running now loves running because his brain has established connections that essentially say, "This is an enjoyable activity." Being nearsighted cannot be fixed in that way. It does require glasses (or laser eye surgery if you so choose). Squinting will not make the near-sightedness go away, whereas there are actual behavioral tactics you can utilize to help improve your focus long-term. ADHD is classified as a behavioral disorder, and therefore its treatment requires behavior to be addressed.
I do not have this concern simply because "the idea of giving drugs to kids sounds unpleasant". I am saying this because these medications actually do alter brain chemistry. The human brain does not finish development until one's late 20s. To introduce a substance to a child interrupts the normal progression of brain development and has long-lasting effects. Perhaps you have a different experience and know people who have had different experiences, but in my time as a substance abuse counselor, not a single one of my clients who took ADHD medications as a child was off them as an adult. Every single one--as far as I remember--was still on some sort of medication to help with ADHD. There are also a few individuals in my personal life who took ADHD medications as children, and they both attribute their bouts of meth addiction to the ADHD medications they were placed on as children. Both of those individuals would tell me those ADHD medications given to them as children have had long-lasting negative effects well into their adulthood.
I understand this is just my experience, though, and my knowledge has limits. If you have witnessed ADHD medication benefit someone (whether it was you or someone else), I respect that. Even though I would never promote ADHD medication, I would not tell someone to stop taking ADHD medication if it is truly benefitting them.
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n_c
Puritan Board Freshman
First of all, I'm not gonna respond to the ODD thing you said since there's too many things you said there that I see as strong fallacies, or made in bad faith. I also don't know where you're getting that the existence of ADHD is hotly contested. It's about as hotly contested as vaccines or climate change. I mean there's always that one person that disagrees. But in general, you'll see that the overwhelming majority of experts will agree it exists.
Moving on, yes, you're seeing different numbers because the websites you're linking are all studies from different years. Here's a general review. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9616454/. I guess I have to give it to you that diagnosis has increased in recent years - but only by 5% compared to general knowledge of ADHD increasing by more than 100%.
For your first reply about parenting, it's not possible if you're using normal ways of parenting. Just the fact that you said that kids can "learn how to focus" is already really telling about your mindset going into this. This is going to make parenting very frustrating for both you and the kid. That's the whole reason behind the diagnosis.
For your second reply, ADHD isn't behavioral. It's neurological and can be shown through behavior. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/adhdadd. There are neurological/genetic differences in ADHD which directly explain it https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s44192-022-00030-1. The reason this might have not been an issue in biblical times, for example, was because the world wasn't as academic. So sitting down and paying attention to things all the time wasn't a social expectation.
There's also no clear evidence that adult-onset ADHD exists as you said https://add.org/can-adhd-appear-for-the-first-time-in-adulthood/. And it also is shown to reduce substance abuse later in life https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-and-substance-abuse-stimulant-medication/. I do want to hear more about your patients' meth addiction stories though. And there have been studies over 50 years that show no long term effects https://childmind.org/article/will-adhd-medication-change-my-childs-brain/ although I could see why that is a valid concern normally for most drugs.
Anyways, this is kind of getting off the point of how this relates to living as a Christian. There's a good video on how treatments for stuff like this is part of common grace.
Moving on, yes, you're seeing different numbers because the websites you're linking are all studies from different years. Here's a general review. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9616454/. I guess I have to give it to you that diagnosis has increased in recent years - but only by 5% compared to general knowledge of ADHD increasing by more than 100%.
For your first reply about parenting, it's not possible if you're using normal ways of parenting. Just the fact that you said that kids can "learn how to focus" is already really telling about your mindset going into this. This is going to make parenting very frustrating for both you and the kid. That's the whole reason behind the diagnosis.
For your second reply, ADHD isn't behavioral. It's neurological and can be shown through behavior. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/adhdadd. There are neurological/genetic differences in ADHD which directly explain it https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s44192-022-00030-1. The reason this might have not been an issue in biblical times, for example, was because the world wasn't as academic. So sitting down and paying attention to things all the time wasn't a social expectation.
There's also no clear evidence that adult-onset ADHD exists as you said https://add.org/can-adhd-appear-for-the-first-time-in-adulthood/. And it also is shown to reduce substance abuse later in life https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-and-substance-abuse-stimulant-medication/. I do want to hear more about your patients' meth addiction stories though. And there have been studies over 50 years that show no long term effects https://childmind.org/article/will-adhd-medication-change-my-childs-brain/ although I could see why that is a valid concern normally for most drugs.
Anyways, this is kind of getting off the point of how this relates to living as a Christian. There's a good video on how treatments for stuff like this is part of common grace.
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