caoclan
Puritan Board Freshman
Wow, this is an incredible story.
F-16 pilot was ready to give her life on Sept. 11 - The Washington Post
F-16 pilot was ready to give her life on Sept. 11 - The Washington Post
Pilot would have rammed flight 93
- Thread starter caoclan
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They don't, and being a air force fighter pilot is a large step from being an Infantryman. But she still would have done something heroic and self-sacrificing.
AThornquist
Puritan Board Doctor
Interesting. I'm glad they didn't have to go through with the plan.
"William The Baptist"
Puritan Board Freshman
(last emphasis mine)
It amazes me that women are so ready to sacrifice so much, even their life unto death, but yet so very few are willing to sacrifice their life unto living... namely to what scripture has clearly laid out a woman's role to be.
As for the article in general, glad they fixed that problem of not having real ammunition in a few planes!
In all seriousness, I'm proud to be an American, where people are willing to lay down their lives for the freedom and protection of our beloved country.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
They don't trust soldiers with ammo, either.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Yes, it is true. I don't think women should be in military roles, but that has no bearing on this comment:
I don't want to sound harsh, uncaring, or mean and I know that some will think this comment is just that. The pilot, male or female, in order to carry out the mission without ordnance would have to have done something like that. Would it have been heroic? I guess so. In another vein it was carrying out duty. That type of thinking and action should not be exceptional, especially among military forces.
I don't want to sound harsh, uncaring, or mean and I know that some will think this comment is just that. The pilot, male or female, in order to carry out the mission without ordnance would have to have done something like that. Would it have been heroic? I guess so. In another vein it was carrying out duty. That type of thinking and action should not be exceptional, especially among military forces.
In the context of this thread, that would only make sense if the case against women in combat depended on proving that they make bad warriors. Fortunately, it does not.
Not for a fighter pilot. Honestly they would make horrid soldiers if they where allowed in combat MOS (Infantry, Tankers, Artillery, Combat Engineers,etc.) in the U.S. Army or USMC. My Dad is Infantry (11b) and when I enlist I'll do so as 11x (which means I could be either reclassified as 11b or 11c (Indirect line Infantry (mortars))). My Dads experience with women in the military has been fairly negative from a few incidents. They do not have the physical strength to do what an Infantryman is required to do, they do not have the emotional capability, they need to keep their hygiene in check (going weeks without washing), as well as Infantryman being a Brotherhood.
Those who have promoted women being in Combat MOS, are either not in the military, or are not in a combat MOS.
(last emphasis mine)
It amazes me that women are so ready to sacrifice so much, even their life unto death, but yet so very few are willing to sacrifice their life unto living... namely to what scripture has clearly laid out a woman's role to be.
As for the article in general, glad they fixed that problem of not having real ammunition in a few planes!
What role are you describing?
That may all be true, Sean, but it's beside the point: that's not the primary reason that women don't belong in combat.
TimV
Puritanboard Botanist
Yeah, they feed us, cleaned us up when we were little, they put up with us when we're older....If we can't at least make an attempt to protect them I often wonder what use we are....to me it's more a matter of honoring them than the size of our biceps or our reaction time.
Scottish Lass
Puritan Board Doctor
What would have been their other options?
I have never heard blatant suicide ever being a US military option. Risky ventures, yes, but never orders for suicide.
Jets have ejection buttons and, while it might not be feasible for a high hope of escape, at least there would be some hope if the plane was lined up on "target" and the pilot ejected prior to impact.
I would like to see further verification of this story. I want to believe and hail this pilot as a hero; but will do so after I hear more info.
Jets have ejection buttons and, while it might not be feasible for a high hope of escape, at least there would be some hope if the plane was lined up on "target" and the pilot ejected prior to impact.
I would like to see further verification of this story. I want to believe and hail this pilot as a hero; but will do so after I hear more info.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
That is what I assumed when I read the OP.
It's a really inspiring story, and I shouldn't be surprised if it's true. Even Satan must be cheering, canny as he is.....in his eyes there's a more ultimate goal, that of spreading and reinforcing the idea that women do belong in combat. In that cause, even he will welcome a little of the courage and self-sacrifice which must be anathema to him in themselves!
The whole story sounds plausible enough, but this portion caused me to pause:
400 mph is how fast a Boeing 737 goes if it is trying to save fuel. In WWII the piston powered P-51 would go faster.
In the world of jet aviation, especially military jets, it's slow--sort of a leisurely stroll.
I'm assuming they were going a lot "more than 400 mph."
400 mph is how fast a Boeing 737 goes if it is trying to save fuel. In WWII the piston powered P-51 would go faster.
In the world of jet aviation, especially military jets, it's slow--sort of a leisurely stroll.
I'm assuming they were going a lot "more than 400 mph."
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
They may have a key stroke error there. I'll bet they had already pushed past 100%, were in full afterburner and ballistic. That would be over 700 mph (The speed of sound is 768 mph at sea level). A 7 is directly above the 4 on a keypad.
PhilA
Puritan Board Sophomore
Nice story but a bit too incredible for my taste.
Flight 93 crashed 10:03. F-16’s from AAFB launched 10:42. Armed F-16’s from Langley already circling DC. Highly probable that Flight 93 would have hit target but for the incredible self-sacrifice of the passengers. They were the real heroes.
See the report from The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.
Flight 93 crashed 10:03. F-16’s from AAFB launched 10:42. Armed F-16’s from Langley already circling DC. Highly probable that Flight 93 would have hit target but for the incredible self-sacrifice of the passengers. They were the real heroes.
See the report from The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.
It's true, numbers are the easiest things in the world to get wrong, much easier than words.
One of my lecturers had a favourite example. Supposing a passage in a manuscript reads just then, 30 pigeons flew over the wood.
If the next scribe copying accidentally omits the 0 and makes it 3 pigeons, probably no-one will even notice. If he omitted a couple of letters instead and wrote 30 pigs flew over the wood, then they would notice.
(That's not all that relevant, but I've always cherished it, and it does make a good point)
a mere housewife
Not your cup of tea
Jenny, this is completely irrelevant, but you are the most delightful person.
No, I meant that I have never heard of this before from any other source.
From wikipedia`s page on the F-16
"Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61 Vulcan 6-barreled gatling cannon, 511 rounds"
Yes, 105 lead nosed 20mm rounds.
View attachment 2307
From this source:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article5.html
"All 106 operational F-16s delivered to date were retrofitted during 1980"
Remember airliners are big targets without armor...
I may have to call my dad about this and get his opinion. He flew F-4`s back in Vietnam, and has used the 20mm.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Firing air-to-air is not as simple as most think. It is one of, if not the most, demanding skills a pilot must master. It really has to be experienced in order to appreciate the difficulty. It does not take many hits from a 20mm to disable an engine. But, disabling an engine does not mean the target is destroyed.
I have no clue whether the plane was armed. If she said she had rounds, she had them. They may have been M55 rounds, practice 'dummy' rounds, since they had been on a training mission.
I have no clue whether the plane was armed. If she said she had rounds, she had them. They may have been M55 rounds, practice 'dummy' rounds, since they had been on a training mission.
I read through the story again I couldn't see any mention of live ammo. The story said they had dummy rounds.
"William The Baptist"
Puritan Board Freshman
(last emphasis mine)
It amazes me that women are so ready to sacrifice so much, even their life unto death, but yet so very few are willing to sacrifice their life unto living... namely to what scripture has clearly laid out a woman's role to be.
As for the article in general, glad they fixed that problem of not having real ammunition in a few planes!
What role are you describing?
I just meant that women seem more eager to submit to their bosses in the corporate world, those in the military to their superiors, and even within political realms. Basically every realm except to their husband. For some reason being submissive to a loving husband is frowned upon and you are considered a doormat to many? They will lay down their life for their country, but will not lay down their life as scripture has commanded and submit to a husband. Obviously not single women, but specifically in marriage in this meaning.
AFP: F-16 pilot was ready to ram hijacked plane on 9/11
(same source repeated)
F-16 Pilot Sent on Extreme 9/11 Mission | 12 Us Post
"With only 105 lead-nosed bullets on board, Penney and Colonel Marc Sasseville took to the skies, while two other F-16s waited to be armed with heat-seeking AIM-9 missiles, Penney told C-SPAN television this week."
Contradiction:
F-16 pilot was ready to die to stop Flight 93 on 9/11 | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
"In the monumental confusion of those first hours, it was impossible to get clear orders. Nothing was ready. The jets were still equipped with dummy bullets from the training mission,"
Touching History :: Lynn Spencer
But, they scrambled other unarmed fighters according the above source, from a different area.
So it was probably equipped with dummy bullets.
(same source repeated)
F-16 Pilot Sent on Extreme 9/11 Mission | 12 Us Post
"With only 105 lead-nosed bullets on board, Penney and Colonel Marc Sasseville took to the skies, while two other F-16s waited to be armed with heat-seeking AIM-9 missiles, Penney told C-SPAN television this week."
Contradiction:
F-16 pilot was ready to die to stop Flight 93 on 9/11 | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
"In the monumental confusion of those first hours, it was impossible to get clear orders. Nothing was ready. The jets were still equipped with dummy bullets from the training mission,"
Touching History :: Lynn Spencer
But, they scrambled other unarmed fighters according the above source, from a different area.
So it was probably equipped with dummy bullets.
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