Ps 72 translation -- need Hebrew help

[nwink]

In Psalm 72:8, why does the KJV translate "He shall" (seems to express certainty)...where the ESV translates it "May he" (seems to express a hope/desire/prayer)? This occurs throughout the psalm. (I have no knowledge of Hebrew) Is one translation more accurate than the other in this verse?

KJV: "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth."

ESV: "May he have dominion from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth!"

 

[Peairtach]

Same with a comparison between the KJV and NIV. "May" creeps into the NIV from verse 15 to 17, and a general note of uncertainty or possibility rather than certainty. What is the answer from the the Hebrew?

And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised. (v15,KJV)

Long may he live! May gold from Sheba be given him. May people ever pray for him and bless him all day long. (v15, NIV)

There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth. (v16, KJV)

Let grain abound throughout the land; on the tops of the hills may it sway. Let its fruit flourish like Lebanon; let it thrive like the grass of the field. (v16, NIV)

His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed. (v17,KJV)

May his name endure forever; may it continue as long as the sun. All nations will be blessed through him, and they will call him blessed. (v17, NIV)

The NIV for v8 is positive, though

He will rule from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.

But it has this footnote to v2

(72:2) Or May he; similarly in verses 3-11 and 17

Verse 2 is:

He will judge your people in righteousness, your afflicted ones with justice.

Is this a Psalm about Messianic possibilities or Messianic certainties?

 

[Irish Presbyterian]

I believe that the Hebrew text behind this verse in Psalm 72 reads the same in both the KJV and ESV. The prefixed verbal form is a jussive form, which simply
means that it is expressing a mild command. It is most likely a prayer of blessing and, therefore, both translations are trying to express some sort of certainty. The 'May he have dominion' of the ESV is more like 'Let him have dominion' rather than expressing a desire that may not come to pass. In this case the ESV seems like the better translation but in a number of other instances throughout the Psalm it uses 'May he' to express an imperfect rather than a jussive, so in those instances
the KJV might be slightly more accurate. It is swings and roundabouts really.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Edit: I suspect Keith (above) probably has the better read on this. I don't have a proper, pointed text with me at this time.

I don't have all my Hebrew assets at hand, but I'll tell you what it looks like to me.

The basic issue is "translational," which is to say, the rendering into English is partly dependent on what the translator(s) believe is the sense of the Hebrew construction.

Strictly speaking, there is no future "tense" in Hebrew, as for example Greek has a particular tense with its own form. The future idea is typically found in Hebrew when a imperfect form is used without a "vav" (meaning 'and') preformative particle.

At a glance, it looks to me like the majority of the verb-forms in the first few vv are imperfects, without the vav. So, the KJV translators render them in the most common sense, that is "future."

But that's not the only way the words can be understood. If the Psalm is more of a "prayer," then the sense of the words in the imperfect can also be rendered as "petionary," that is "may it come to be so."

The thing to remember is that what is expressed is not instantiated in history, it has not (yet) come to be in the concrete sense of reality (from the standpoint of the original human author). If one takes the imperfect expressions as prophetic or promissory of God, then the future tense is just fine for English. But, a very similar sense may be had by way of prayer. Thus, we pray in the Lord's Prayer, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done." We know it will be so, by divine promise.

 

[Peairtach]

Very helpful, Keith and Bruce.

 

[elnwood]

Sometimes the jussive form and imperfect form are distinctive, but usually they are indistinguishable, which is the case here. It could be a jussive ("may he" or "let him") or imperfect ("he will/shall"). It needs to be determined by context.

For Psalm 72, I believe the jussive "let him rule" fits the context best, in light of the imperative "give the king" in verse 1.

Does it express "certainty" or "desire/hope"? As Bruce writes, it's really a prayer. The Psalmist is praying for the king to rule with justice in the face of injustice.